I am towing down to Tours using non toll roads as the tolls amount to over _50,but I would like any recommendations on any stretches where it might be advisable to use the toll rd's to avoid bad stretches of the N roads
where to use toll route??
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- Mar 26, 2008
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We could do with your start point really.
We have found non toll roads a false economy, autoroute offers steady cruising speeds and faster problem free trips. Also you are less likely to take the wrong turn or get confused by signs or get caught by detours and traffic hold ups. Some french road surfaces are not of the best quality compared to silky smooth autoroutes that inflict less wear and tear on car and caravan. We have never had caravan cupboard doors spring open on an autoroute but have on other roads and also had the debris to clean up.
We have found non toll roads a false economy, autoroute offers steady cruising speeds and faster problem free trips. Also you are less likely to take the wrong turn or get confused by signs or get caught by detours and traffic hold ups. Some french road surfaces are not of the best quality compared to silky smooth autoroutes that inflict less wear and tear on car and caravan. We have never had caravan cupboard doors spring open on an autoroute but have on other roads and also had the debris to clean up.
Toll roads are good for getting round cities, but you can generally then rejoin the "old" tool free roads.
Michelin maps (and others) show different markings for tool and toll free autoroutes. If you plan you route on www.viamichelin.com you will see the toll stations and charges.
Be aware that some of the exits from tool roads are now unmanned and you will have to put in coin or use a credit card - the latter is easy and you can choose to get a recepit.
Michelin maps (and others) show different markings for tool and toll free autoroutes. If you plan you route on www.viamichelin.com you will see the toll stations and charges.
Be aware that some of the exits from tool roads are now unmanned and you will have to put in coin or use a credit card - the latter is easy and you can choose to get a recepit.
- Mar 14, 2005
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I agrre totally with 'Shady Sadie' - the proliferation of roundabouts in France, causes increased fuel consumption, as you have to slow down and then start off again.
Then there are traffic lights!!!
Take the autoroutes I say.
Then there are traffic lights!!!
Take the autoroutes I say.
The combined cost of fuel and tolls is becoming very expensive, though. We try to use non-toll roads as much as possible, but I've just checked the costs of getting to Cambrils in Spain using mappy.com and the one-way costs with car and caravan are:
Via Lyon = 131 euros toll, 161 euros fuel (
Via Lyon = 131 euros toll, 161 euros fuel (
Absolutely - I only did the comparison as on 'another' website someone actually recommended the route Reims/Dijon/Lyon/Montpellier/Narbonne/Perpignan/Spain and I just wondered what it would cost. There is someone on the 'other' website who is actually going to use that way, and we've met many other people who don't seem to think there are any other ways through France than down the Rhone Valley. We met one couple who had gone that way to the Dordogne!?!?!
We tend to use the A75 now - and many of the non-toll roads to get there. We only use the Lyon route if we're off to the Ardeche area as the roads from the other direction are very tortuous.
We tend to use the A75 now - and many of the non-toll roads to get there. We only use the Lyon route if we're off to the Ardeche area as the roads from the other direction are very tortuous.
- Mar 26, 2008
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Val, assuming that you are departing from Calais or Dunkerque to contemplate going via Reims, from memory I would guess that adds around 200 miles to the journey to Cambrils and must nearly double the travel time if you go non autoroute and fuel consumption has to take a dive.
Thanks Sadie, but as I said in the posting above we don't use that route to get to Spain. Someone else had recommended it on another forum, and as I had already recommended a different route I tried to show the additional costings. As I said, if we're going to Spain we go straight down the middle via the A75 or on one occasions when we got the ferry to Cherbourg we did Toulouse/Andorra - and we only use the Rhone Valley route if we're going to the Ardeche. However, there are obviously other people who don't examine the various options - and someone, who appears to be an experienced traveller, has actually mentioned that he may use the Lyon option to get to the Costa Daurada.
I am sitting in my van, in Cambrils, reading this....so couldn't resist adding my bit! We are here for three days (ish) before moving south. (By the way it has been raining for the past twelve hours so there's not a lot else to do!)
I think many of us are creatures of habit and, of course, it wasn't so long ago that the Lyons route (at first via Paris, then later via Reims) was the only all motorway route to Spain. When we were working, and only had two week holidays, it was necessary to get there quickly and then the only other reasonably quick non motorway route was straight down the N20 to Toulouse, then via Narbonne. Maybe some people still follow their habitual route without looking for alternatives.
At the rate that France has been building new roads in more recent years there are, of course many alternatives now, and it really is a matter of choice.
Like Val, I costed various routes this time, because, as she says, the combined cost of fuel and tolls has become very expensive, even since last year with the price increases plus poorer exchange rate. My conclusion was that overall there was little difference in cost between the routes via Clermont Ferrand, Toulouse/Bourg Madame, and even Tours/San Sebastien.
Now we are retired we have plenty of time so it really is a matter of choice and I tend to leave the choice until the last minute, and keep off toll roads where practical, to save cost.
We ended up taking the motorway route via Reims to Troyes (relatively cheap), then cross country to Nevers (Camping Cheques site), then to Clermont Ferrand and down the A75. Not everybody's "cup of tea" but suited us and we didn't pay any tolls between Troyes and Beziers.
To answer Tony's question - if you are still there Tony! - assuming you go via Rouen to Tours, the non motorway route via Alencon and Le Mans to Tours is perfectly good and I would personally take that - but it's a matter of choice.
......wait a minute - its stopped raining - must go and look at the outside world!!
Regards
Keith
I think many of us are creatures of habit and, of course, it wasn't so long ago that the Lyons route (at first via Paris, then later via Reims) was the only all motorway route to Spain. When we were working, and only had two week holidays, it was necessary to get there quickly and then the only other reasonably quick non motorway route was straight down the N20 to Toulouse, then via Narbonne. Maybe some people still follow their habitual route without looking for alternatives.
At the rate that France has been building new roads in more recent years there are, of course many alternatives now, and it really is a matter of choice.
Like Val, I costed various routes this time, because, as she says, the combined cost of fuel and tolls has become very expensive, even since last year with the price increases plus poorer exchange rate. My conclusion was that overall there was little difference in cost between the routes via Clermont Ferrand, Toulouse/Bourg Madame, and even Tours/San Sebastien.
Now we are retired we have plenty of time so it really is a matter of choice and I tend to leave the choice until the last minute, and keep off toll roads where practical, to save cost.
We ended up taking the motorway route via Reims to Troyes (relatively cheap), then cross country to Nevers (Camping Cheques site), then to Clermont Ferrand and down the A75. Not everybody's "cup of tea" but suited us and we didn't pay any tolls between Troyes and Beziers.
To answer Tony's question - if you are still there Tony! - assuming you go via Rouen to Tours, the non motorway route via Alencon and Le Mans to Tours is perfectly good and I would personally take that - but it's a matter of choice.
......wait a minute - its stopped raining - must go and look at the outside world!!
Regards
Keith
I am sitting in my van, in Cambrils, reading this....so couldn't resist adding my bit! We are here for three days (ish) before moving south. (By the way it has been raining for the past twelve hours so there's not a lot else to do!)
I think many of us are creatures of habit and, of course, it wasn't so long ago that the Lyons route (at first via Paris, then later via Reims) was the only all motorway route to Spain. When we were working, and only had two week holidays, it was necessary to get there quickly and then the only other reasonably quick non motorway route was straight down the N20 to Toulouse, then via Narbonne. Maybe some people still follow their habitual route without looking for alternatives.
At the rate that France has been building new roads in more recent years there are, of course many alternatives now, and it really is a matter of choice.
Like Val, I costed various routes this time, because, as she says, the combined cost of fuel and tolls has become very expensive, even since last year with the price increases plus poorer exchange rate. My conclusion was that overall there was little difference in cost between the routes via Clermont Ferrand, Toulouse/Bourg Madame, and even Tours/San Sebastien.
Now we are retired we have plenty of time so it really is a matter of choice and I tend to leave the choice until the last minute, and keep off toll roads where practical, to save cost.
We ended up taking the motorway route via Reims to Troyes (relatively cheap), then cross country to Nevers (Camping Cheques site), then to Clermont Ferrand and down the A75. Not everybody's "cup of tea" but suited us and we didn't pay any tolls between Troyes and Beziers.
To answer Tony's question - if you are still there Tony! - assuming you go via Rouen to Tours, the non motorway route via Alencon and Le Mans to Tours is perfectly good and I would personally take that - but it's a matter of choice.
......wait a minute - its stopped raining - must go and look at the outside world!!
Regards
Keith
I think many of us are creatures of habit and, of course, it wasn't so long ago that the Lyons route (at first via Paris, then later via Reims) was the only all motorway route to Spain. When we were working, and only had two week holidays, it was necessary to get there quickly and then the only other reasonably quick non motorway route was straight down the N20 to Toulouse, then via Narbonne. Maybe some people still follow their habitual route without looking for alternatives.
At the rate that France has been building new roads in more recent years there are, of course many alternatives now, and it really is a matter of choice.
Like Val, I costed various routes this time, because, as she says, the combined cost of fuel and tolls has become very expensive, even since last year with the price increases plus poorer exchange rate. My conclusion was that overall there was little difference in cost between the routes via Clermont Ferrand, Toulouse/Bourg Madame, and even Tours/San Sebastien.
Now we are retired we have plenty of time so it really is a matter of choice and I tend to leave the choice until the last minute, and keep off toll roads where practical, to save cost.
We ended up taking the motorway route via Reims to Troyes (relatively cheap), then cross country to Nevers (Camping Cheques site), then to Clermont Ferrand and down the A75. Not everybody's "cup of tea" but suited us and we didn't pay any tolls between Troyes and Beziers.
To answer Tony's question - if you are still there Tony! - assuming you go via Rouen to Tours, the non motorway route via Alencon and Le Mans to Tours is perfectly good and I would personally take that - but it's a matter of choice.
......wait a minute - its stopped raining - must go and look at the outside world!!
Regards
Keith
Hope your not boring your wife going round all these race tracks.I am sitting in my van, in Cambrils, reading this....so couldn't resist adding my bit! We are here for three days (ish) before moving south. (By the way it has been raining for the past twelve hours so there's not a lot else to do!)
I think many of us are creatures of habit and, of course, it wasn't so long ago that the Lyons route (at first via Paris, then later via Reims) was the only all motorway route to Spain. When we were working, and only had two week holidays, it was necessary to get there quickly and then the only other reasonably quick non motorway route was straight down the N20 to Toulouse, then via Narbonne. Maybe some people still follow their habitual route without looking for alternatives.
At the rate that France has been building new roads in more recent years there are, of course many alternatives now, and it really is a matter of choice.
Like Val, I costed various routes this time, because, as she says, the combined cost of fuel and tolls has become very expensive, even since last year with the price increases plus poorer exchange rate. My conclusion was that overall there was little difference in cost between the routes via Clermont Ferrand, Toulouse/Bourg Madame, and even Tours/San Sebastien.
Now we are retired we have plenty of time so it really is a matter of choice and I tend to leave the choice until the last minute, and keep off toll roads where practical, to save cost.
We ended up taking the motorway route via Reims to Troyes (relatively cheap), then cross country to Nevers (Camping Cheques site), then to Clermont Ferrand and down the A75. Not everybody's "cup of tea" but suited us and we didn't pay any tolls between Troyes and Beziers.
To answer Tony's question - if you are still there Tony! - assuming you go via Rouen to Tours, the non motorway route via Alencon and Le Mans to Tours is perfectly good and I would personally take that - but it's a matter of choice.
......wait a minute - its stopped raining - must go and look at the outside world!!
Regards
Keith
Hi x11
You must be as old as me if you can remember when Rouen and Reims were race tracks!!! Not a lot of signs of it at either today. Le Mans, yes - you can still drive along the Mulsanne straight but not at 200mph!!, and Magny Cours, yes there was some practicing/testing going on when we passed. Wife is used to me pointing out all these points of interest - she just ignores me!
Hi Smiley
Yes we've been told about the weather at home!!! It actually rained from Thursday night through to Saturday night here - a full two days non stop!! The wind got up to force ten (I was told) for an hour or two on the second night, and blew two trees down on the sea front. No doubt tomorrow (Monday) the council workers will be putting the beach back where it belongs!
We have enjoyed ourselves reading our books for two days in the van, with the heating on!!!
The previous longest spell of continuous rain I have experienced on a camp site was in Newquay, Cornwall in 1971, when we were in a tent (40 hours).
Keith
You must be as old as me if you can remember when Rouen and Reims were race tracks!!! Not a lot of signs of it at either today. Le Mans, yes - you can still drive along the Mulsanne straight but not at 200mph!!, and Magny Cours, yes there was some practicing/testing going on when we passed. Wife is used to me pointing out all these points of interest - she just ignores me!
Hi Smiley
Yes we've been told about the weather at home!!! It actually rained from Thursday night through to Saturday night here - a full two days non stop!! The wind got up to force ten (I was told) for an hour or two on the second night, and blew two trees down on the sea front. No doubt tomorrow (Monday) the council workers will be putting the beach back where it belongs!
We have enjoyed ourselves reading our books for two days in the van, with the heating on!!!
The previous longest spell of continuous rain I have experienced on a camp site was in Newquay, Cornwall in 1971, when we were in a tent (40 hours).
Keith
I think we may have been in Newquay at the same time! We spent our first half day in scorching sun on the beach and got burned, then it rained, and rained, and rained, and rained. It's the one and only time we've come home early from a camping holiday.Hi x11
You must be as old as me if you can remember when Rouen and Reims were race tracks!!! Not a lot of signs of it at either today. Le Mans, yes - you can still drive along the Mulsanne straight but not at 200mph!!, and Magny Cours, yes there was some practicing/testing going on when we passed. Wife is used to me pointing out all these points of interest - she just ignores me!
Hi Smiley
Yes we've been told about the weather at home!!! It actually rained from Thursday night through to Saturday night here - a full two days non stop!! The wind got up to force ten (I was told) for an hour or two on the second night, and blew two trees down on the sea front. No doubt tomorrow (Monday) the council workers will be putting the beach back where it belongs!
We have enjoyed ourselves reading our books for two days in the van, with the heating on!!!
The previous longest spell of continuous rain I have experienced on a camp site was in Newquay, Cornwall in 1971, when we were in a tent (40 hours).
Keith
- Mar 26, 2008
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Yesterday I went to Belgium with friends and then we went to Arras. At two places in France we found the main road on our route was blocked with no warning until we got to a junction and the other when we went to the third exit of a roundabout.
The first "deviation" took us 7 or 8 miles out of our way and the second nearly 20 miles and I was glad we were just in a car and not towing as on the second deviation we had to slalom through a village centre on cobbled streets with pedestrians dodging lorries and cars.
We've come across the French "road closed" system numerous times. Yesterday's trip just illustrated how fuel consumption can drop and journey times get vastly beyond those expected.
On the first deviation we got to a roundabout with no signs about the diversion, on the second diversion we arrived behind a lorry and coach at a staggered crossroads and only having a satnav again gave us clue as to where to go. Both routes were OK but not for the faint hearted with a caravan and with far from the best road services. After passing the sixth or seventh tractor on one A type road we were thankful to see the motorway.
Our Solo car trip not using Autoroute should have taken about 40 minutes longer than the Autoroute and ended up taking getting on for three hours after a hunt for toilets!
The highly visible McDonalds logo and their locations on satnav mapping for Europe is an invaluable aid to travellers we've decided yet again.
My friend's elderly father made his visits to his War graves and we were again humbled by the lines of so many young men and the pristine cemeteries.
The Autoroute from Arras was a welcome sight, nice steady uninterrupted driving to the coast.
The first "deviation" took us 7 or 8 miles out of our way and the second nearly 20 miles and I was glad we were just in a car and not towing as on the second deviation we had to slalom through a village centre on cobbled streets with pedestrians dodging lorries and cars.
We've come across the French "road closed" system numerous times. Yesterday's trip just illustrated how fuel consumption can drop and journey times get vastly beyond those expected.
On the first deviation we got to a roundabout with no signs about the diversion, on the second diversion we arrived behind a lorry and coach at a staggered crossroads and only having a satnav again gave us clue as to where to go. Both routes were OK but not for the faint hearted with a caravan and with far from the best road services. After passing the sixth or seventh tractor on one A type road we were thankful to see the motorway.
Our Solo car trip not using Autoroute should have taken about 40 minutes longer than the Autoroute and ended up taking getting on for three hours after a hunt for toilets!
The highly visible McDonalds logo and their locations on satnav mapping for Europe is an invaluable aid to travellers we've decided yet again.
My friend's elderly father made his visits to his War graves and we were again humbled by the lines of so many young men and the pristine cemeteries.
The Autoroute from Arras was a welcome sight, nice steady uninterrupted driving to the coast.
Hi Keith. Nothing to do with the topic, but wondered what you are using to connect to the net and costings, (if you've time when the sun isn't shining, of course!) Taking laptop on holiday, but it doesn't have WIFI at present, and not sure I want the cost of upgrading if mobile connection charges are exhorbitant. Problem is that the alternative, which I usually have to use, are the campsites' AZERTY keyboards!
Sadie
Yes I've had some of that - deviations - many times! Very frustrating. It happened on this trip near Auxerre - there was plenty of warning, but no directions for a suitable alternative. We went round in a circle once and down bumpy lanes(with caravan) then stumbled on an information office by chance. I went in and asked, and there reply was "Oh just carry on, you'll get past all right!!! Reckon we lost about an hour.
Wendylois
We have used the camp site's wifi on two sites this trip. Some of them in France are expensive, but they are generally reasonable, sometimes free, in Spain.
The one in Cambrils (Camping Joan) was 5 euros per day, 10 per week, or 20 per month, very good reception available in van. The paid for time ran out whether you used it or not.
Now we are at La Manga. here they operate a sort of phone card system, ie. you put in the log in details and the time you are on line is deducted from the amount of time paid for as and when you use it. Reception here is a bit patchy and the system can be over loaded at night when everyone wants to use it. Cards are 3 euros for 1 hour, 5 for 3 hours, 15 for 12 hours but you can use as little or as much as you like until used up.
Hope that is helpful
Keith
Yes I've had some of that - deviations - many times! Very frustrating. It happened on this trip near Auxerre - there was plenty of warning, but no directions for a suitable alternative. We went round in a circle once and down bumpy lanes(with caravan) then stumbled on an information office by chance. I went in and asked, and there reply was "Oh just carry on, you'll get past all right!!! Reckon we lost about an hour.
Wendylois
We have used the camp site's wifi on two sites this trip. Some of them in France are expensive, but they are generally reasonable, sometimes free, in Spain.
The one in Cambrils (Camping Joan) was 5 euros per day, 10 per week, or 20 per month, very good reception available in van. The paid for time ran out whether you used it or not.
Now we are at La Manga. here they operate a sort of phone card system, ie. you put in the log in details and the time you are on line is deducted from the amount of time paid for as and when you use it. Reception here is a bit patchy and the system can be over loaded at night when everyone wants to use it. Cards are 3 euros for 1 hour, 5 for 3 hours, 15 for 12 hours but you can use as little or as much as you like until used up.
Hope that is helpful
Keith
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