Gafferbill said:..........nobody has mentioned the weight penalty associated with fitting a mover and the large proportion of payload that is lost as a result.
Payloads are pitifully low on most modern caravans as it is!
Given the amount of gear I see carried in caravans that are fitted with movers....... then it is obvious that the payload is often exceeded.
This is a factor that the OP needs to consider.
In my case based on Bailey's own figures 14.23% of our useable payload is eaten up by the mover.
Sadly a necessary evil. Moving a TA by hand is nigh impossible.
If movers were a standard manufacturer fit I bet the MIRO and MTPLMS would be more advantageous to the end user
Dustydog said:.................
If movers were a standard manufacturer fit I bet the MIRO and MTPLMS would be more advantageous to the end user
Hello Dusty,
I'm certain the mover manufacturers are aware of the limitations of payload in caravans, it has always been an issue. When you consider the forces involved, you have to provide the design movers with sufficient strength which also means enough material (mainly metal) to keep things together.
If you look at:
http://www.caravanmoversonline.co.uk/pages/compare-movers.html
- you can see most of the available models and their specifications including their weights. For TA models they range from 29 to 36.5Kg. unless you are using exotic materials I don't see any major scope for any significant weight reductions. If the chassis manufacturers manage to incorporate elements into the chassis structure there could be some weight saving.
Al-Ko already do manufacture a mover, so they are one step along the way, but if they do go on to produce a mover option chassis it may shut out the competition.
We've had a Reich one since 2003 been on 3 vans and its been excellent (touch wood) the cross actuation is via a screwthread we use a drill and its very quick and easy.Can't comment on aftersales as it hasnt gone wrong at all.
Dustydog said:........In my case based on Bailey's own figures 14.23% of our useable payload is eaten up by the mover.
Sadly a necessary evil. Moving a TA by hand is nigh impossible.
If movers were a standard manufacturer fit I bet the MIRO and MTPLMS would be more advantageous to the end user
........I am not anti movers Alan but the OP stated he was buying a new Swift Challenger Sport 524 next March as their first caravan.
The payload of this caravan is 150kgs and an all up weight of a mover can be around 35 to 40kgs.
In the excitement of buying a new lifestyle this fact may not have occurred to the OP.
........and in another thread on the forum the same OP is looking at fitting Alko ATC to his purchase which will also eat away at the payload.
DeliDave_ said:We've had a Reich one since 2003 been on 3 vans and its been excellent (touch wood) the cross actuation is via a screwthread we use a drill and its very quick and easy.Can't comment on aftersales as it hasnt gone wrong at all.
Oh-oh, the kiss of death.
Fully agree Bill.
I suspect irrespective of the caravan size most people will carry similar loads.
I was suggesting to the Prof that manufacturers can pretty well make up their own MIRO and MTPLM figures.If ATC , Movers were factory fitted wouldn't the MIRO make due allowance for these?
I know Bailey will sell you an updated MTPLM plate increasing the payload.
I think Sprocket has upgraded his MTPLM on numerous occasions
I suspect irrespective of the caravan size most people will carry similar loads.
I was suggesting to the Prof that manufacturers can pretty well make up their own MIRO and MTPLM figures.If ATC , Movers were factory fitted wouldn't the MIRO make due allowance for these?
I know Bailey will sell you an updated MTPLM plate increasing the payload.
I think Sprocket has upgraded his MTPLM on numerous occasions
At one time, certainly 2001 model year, Bailey included the weight of factory-options and increased the payload accordingly - so if you didn't order the options you got a bigger payload.
Our 2001 Bailey Pageant, was ordered with no options, so had 40kg bigger payload than the NCC minimum (based on berths and length) - and meant that when we fitted a 35kg mover we still had the NCC payload available for use.
I don't think Bailey, or others, do it that way now.
Our 2001 Bailey Pageant, was ordered with no options, so had 40kg bigger payload than the NCC minimum (based on berths and length) - and meant that when we fitted a 35kg mover we still had the NCC payload available for use.
I don't think Bailey, or others, do it that way now.
I've always had Powrtouch and found them good both in performance and service. Service calls may not be due to faults with manufacture. Most movers have limited ground clearance and can be damaged by speed bumps, kerbs or other obstructions - hardly design faults when they virtually have to go under the chassis (apart from the expensive Alko unit).
A better measure of reliability would be the ratio of service calls to units sold - although even this would be affected by the paragraph above. Another would be the MTBF (mean time between failure) figure much used in industry and aviation, but difficult to define for a mover, I think)
To me, one of the weakest points of many movers is the means of connecting to the drive motors. This is ofter a spade connector with the cable appearing from under a rubber sleeve going all round the body of the motor. There is usually a small crevice alongside the cable along which water can penetrate and this is particularly likely if the cable is bent upwards towards the caravan body where it leaves the sleeve rather than dwonwards towards the road. Having to fit the mover behind the axle as is necessary for some caravans makes matters very much worse.
This could be overcome by fitting sealed cables to the motor going to a junction box with a suitable IP rating (as found on many outdoor light fittings), but I believe that many of the motors used were originally intended as heavy duty (truck) windscreen wiper motors where the connection integrity is much less of a problem.
I also have some criticism of the actual engineer of the mechanical parts - cams, sheer pins, springs and there attachments etc. as there appears to have been some lack of though about the ease of servce and replacement when the mover is in situ under a caravan rather than on a nice well lit easy to get at assembly bench.
This criticism applies to many devices and appliances and is nothing new, but lessons do not appear to be learned.
A better measure of reliability would be the ratio of service calls to units sold - although even this would be affected by the paragraph above. Another would be the MTBF (mean time between failure) figure much used in industry and aviation, but difficult to define for a mover, I think)
To me, one of the weakest points of many movers is the means of connecting to the drive motors. This is ofter a spade connector with the cable appearing from under a rubber sleeve going all round the body of the motor. There is usually a small crevice alongside the cable along which water can penetrate and this is particularly likely if the cable is bent upwards towards the caravan body where it leaves the sleeve rather than dwonwards towards the road. Having to fit the mover behind the axle as is necessary for some caravans makes matters very much worse.
This could be overcome by fitting sealed cables to the motor going to a junction box with a suitable IP rating (as found on many outdoor light fittings), but I believe that many of the motors used were originally intended as heavy duty (truck) windscreen wiper motors where the connection integrity is much less of a problem.
I also have some criticism of the actual engineer of the mechanical parts - cams, sheer pins, springs and there attachments etc. as there appears to have been some lack of though about the ease of servce and replacement when the mover is in situ under a caravan rather than on a nice well lit easy to get at assembly bench.
This criticism applies to many devices and appliances and is nothing new, but lessons do not appear to be learned.
Hello Ray,
During a product training course run by Carver at Brownhills, During the lunch break, the delegates were offered a tour of the factory. In one area of the factory yard they met John Carver, one of the owners, he was working on the prototype caravan mover. He was most forthcoming and explained the thinking behind the device, such as by using the main wheels how maximum traction could obtained. He also explained his reason for developing it as he was less able to move his caravan by hand. He was at pains to produce a design that could be assembled, fitted, maintained or repaired without the need for specialist equipment.
Now of course other manufacturers have jumped on the band wagon, and produced their own designs, And Carver sold their leisure touring Caravan products business to Truma, so I can't say whether they have continued to use the same philosophy.
During a product training course run by Carver at Brownhills, During the lunch break, the delegates were offered a tour of the factory. In one area of the factory yard they met John Carver, one of the owners, he was working on the prototype caravan mover. He was most forthcoming and explained the thinking behind the device, such as by using the main wheels how maximum traction could obtained. He also explained his reason for developing it as he was less able to move his caravan by hand. He was at pains to produce a design that could be assembled, fitted, maintained or repaired without the need for specialist equipment.
Now of course other manufacturers have jumped on the band wagon, and produced their own designs, And Carver sold their leisure touring Caravan products business to Truma, so I can't say whether they have continued to use the same philosophy.
Carver had a long association with Truma - many of the Carver heaters were Truma designs built under licence as Truma didn't operate in the UK until relatively recently - of course, the renowned Carver mover was aquired when Truma bought Carver's touring caravan products business out and introduced the Truma brand to the UK.
RogerL said:
Technically incorrect, Truma did not buy Carver out, Carver only sold their touring caravan product lines to Truma. Carver continue operate an international business with heaters for mobile homes, engineering work holding and commercial and indsutrial HVAC selling worldwide, and manufacturing in several countries within Europe.
Gafferbill, thanks for your contribution to this topic. I don't think we'll be adding ATC to our caravan now, I'll be updating my ATC topic soon to explain why. I fully appreciate that the Motor Mover will add weight and reduce the payload. That's one of the many things I've learnt recently, but thanks for pointing that out, it's appreciated!
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