Why are Manufacturers so lax with their Products?

[Damian]

Having been called out to a couple with a motorhome in which their fridge would not work on 240v, I set about tracing the fault only to be potentially killed as the supply for the fridge instead of being from the No3 MCB (which was marked as fridge supply) it was from the No2 MCB which was only marked as Heater.

Not only that, but they had fitted an isolation switch inside a wardrobe, but make no mention of that switch in any of the van literature, nor is the switch marked in any way.

After spending this summer mainly on different sites, fixing a lot of warranty jobs, I can understand why so many people are fed up with build quality.

On another caravan, less than one year old I still have to return to fix:

Table, as it is like a roller coaster instead of flat.

Alarm, never worked from day one, now has to be removed and a new unit installed.

Status 530 with fault in mast head, along with 6 out of the 7 terminal connections badly made allowing the outer braid to contact the inner core.

Cutlery drawer, which is 1/4 inch wider at the rear , allowing the drawer to fall off the runner when closed.

Wardrobe base held in place on 4 flimsy plastic pegs, which have collapsed.

Waste pipe from sink which is so badly kinked where it turns that it has fully shut off the pipe causing the sink not to be able to drain.

The vehicles concerned are not both British built either, one is , but the other is German, so no commonality there.

If only they could all get their acts together and provide decent quality of fitting out, it would save customers so much less trouble and bad feeling.

 

[Damian]

Meant to say , about the cutlery drawer, it is the guide runners which are 1/4 inch difference, not the actual drawer.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hey Ho!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi damian

funny you should post about van electrics ,I have just fitted a mover to my bailey and noticed the electics?? they look like they were fitted by a inept DIYer on a bad day.

the main clump of wires resembles a scruffy birds nest with only one wire fastend to the floor every thing else is tye wrapped to it so I will have to sort them out as well?/ the only consolation is every thing works,

colin

 

[bigbilly]

Damian - While every caravan and motorhome that is built already has a buyer there will be no improvement in the build quality or the effectiveness of manufacturers customer services.

The sad point is how many of us either put up with problems, fix them ourelves and the few that actually pursue the issues get some satisfaction but at what effort.

If the market ever turned, like it did, in Holland it would be interesting who the survivors in the industry would be !

Bill

 

[vernon]

I agree with you, Bill.

I always carry a tool kit to fix my own repairs, and being a useful DIYer and electrician, I have fixed my own faults, (burnt out Omnivent excluded!).

As far as I am concerned my warranty covers damp and any major component failure, as I can't be bothered taking the caravan back everytime something minor goes wrong (loose wires in sockets, loose shelves, repairing toilet pump, etc), as most of these occured in France, anyway.

The problem is when I reported the faults, the manufacturer said there was no warranty record of my faults and was not interested!

Roll on the first Jap caravan!

 

[Surfer]

Through the small claims court and in a round about way I am tackling two manufacturers about the quality of the goods supplied. Unfortunately the only way I can do this is to summon the dealer to court and then call the manufacturers, caravan and mattress, as witnesses to state the reasons why their product has failed to live up to expectations. The dealer has been exceptionally helpful but the manufacturer is holding back and refusing the warranty claim.

The product is the soft furnishing within the caravan, a fixed bed mattress, which has only a year's warranty. It is now almost 3 years old and is sagging in many places. I received good advice from Trading Standards who have assured me that I have a very good case under The Sale of Goods Act.

As it is being done through the small claims court, my outlay is approximatley

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

I am not a solicitor or have any legal training, but I have come across the sale of goods acts.

There is a phrase 'the supply chain' which aptly describes the steps of getting a product between the manufacture and the consumer. In most cases, the manufacture rarely trades directly with the consumer, but will frequently trade with intermediates such as wholesalers and retailers. Each one of these entities will strike a contract with their supplier, and a subsequent contract with their customer, hence the analogy with a chain.

A contract between the manufacture and a wholesaler, is independent of any other contract the wholesalers makes with a retailer or customer.

As I am sure you will have been advised, your claim is against your seller, which in this case is not the manufacturer. As such, any judgement in your actions will only be against the seller.

If a judgment is made in your favour the seller will have to satisfy the claim irrespective of the opinions of the manufacture who are not a party in your contract. As such I think it will be very difficult to get the manufacture to be represented in any form in your case.

The exception to the above is if you are able to bring a class action, but this is not usually allowed unless there is considerable number of parallel cases.

I wish you luck, and I would be very interested in hearing the manufactures explanations for their repeated and consistent failings, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Surfer]

Hello Ian,

I am not a solicitor or have any legal training, but I have come across the sale of goods acts.

There is a phrase 'the supply chain' which aptly describes the steps of getting a product between the manufacture and the consumer. In most cases, the manufacture rarely trades directly with the consumer, but will frequently trade with intermediates such as wholesalers and retailers. Each one of these entities will strike a contract with their supplier, and a subsequent contract with their customer, hence the analogy with a chain.

A contract between the manufacture and a wholesaler, is independent of any other contract the wholesalers makes with a retailer or customer.

As I am sure you will have been advised, your claim is against your seller, which in this case is not the manufacturer. As such, any judgement in your actions will only be against the seller.

If a judgment is made in your favour the seller will have to satisfy the claim irrespective of the opinions of the manufacture who are not a party in your contract. As such I think it will be very difficult to get the manufacture to be represented in any form in your case.

The exception to the above is if you are able to bring a class action, but this is not usually allowed unless there is considerable number of parallel cases.

I wish you luck, and I would be very interested in hearing the manufactures explanations for their repeated and consistent failings, but I am not holding my breath.

Unforunately it is the dealer that is being taking to court under SOGA, but there is nothing stopping me calling the manufacturers as witnesses. They may then have to repond to some very awkward questions.

 

[donaldson35]

hey damian

got to agree with you on build quality ...i,m taking my 5 month old ace back to the dealer tommorow to have 20 quality issues rectified..the fit and finish of the van is very much slap dash....badly seamed joints squint light switches...holes in walls..terrible..is there any manufacturer out there with a bit of integrity??..i ll keep you all posted on how it turns out

cheers

 

[Surfer]

Here is an update on the mattress saga. I sent the dealer by registered post a "Pre-liminary letter" requesting the mattress to be replaced. The manufacturer rejected it outright. I was sent a copy of the letter by the dealer.

This was then followed up by a "Letter before Action" sent by registered mail advising that if the issue was not rectified with 14 working days I would be issuing summons. I quoted the Sale of Goods Act etc. In addition, I also stated that I would be calling the manufacturers of the mattres and the caravan as witnesses. This was going to cost me an additional

 

[GrahamSouthBrum]

Good for you Ian.

How would your problem have stood up if your van had been made in another country?

I dont supose you would have been able to get the makers to attend court.

G.

 

[John_5128806]

Practical Caravan will be very loth to print an article on how to use the sale of goods act. They need the retailers and manufacturers for their advertising revenue.

If they do print one, it will be a watered down sop with no real value to us consumers.

By the way, the worst thing affecting the poor quality of caravan manufacturer and service is the apathy of the buyers.

This is true of all products.

 

[RayS]

Glad to hear at least one of us is winning.

While taking things back to dealers to be fixed sounds OK, it is probably to the same dealer you have paid a large sum for so-called PDI anyway. Further how many of them have qualified fitters or electricians on the staff?

I understand that the current check on a dealer or workshop for the NCC approved scheme does not require an electrician qualified to the level necessary for even very minor home alterations - e,g, fitting new mains sockets, and I am sure there are plenty of these being done daily.

18 months ago, when I challenged the PDI on my new caravan, the excuse given to Trading Standards for very low tyre pressures on all wheels was "the machine was broken on that day" - and they got away with it.

 

[Damian]

Just a point regarding the above statement by Ray S.

NCC Approved workshops do actually have to have either a member of staff qualified to 16th Edition regs, including Part P OR access to one to become registered.

 

[Surfer]

Either way I think I would like to publicly thank John Bolton of Chichester Caravans in Bromsgrove for getting the manufacturer to replace the mattress within a reasonable time frame.

My only regret was that I was forced to go for the dealer to get the manufacturer of the mattress to pay attention.

 

[ThePlotter]

I think the problem with build quality is due to stupid situation whereby you have to take the van to the supplying dealer for warranty work as a result unless it is major work most of us either repair ourselves or put up with it as a result many faults never get reported back to the manufacturer who in ignorence thinks his products are largely good.

I was glad however to see Swift actually come on here the other day in response to a post regarding water ingress.

Finally I was interested in the point regarding the Status ariel,these always have a bad press and I have found mine to be pretty poor but on each occassion I have tightened the connections and it has always then been fine.

 

[Surfer]

Regarding the status aerial, the best thing for it is the bin. If you take Sky with you when caravanning, replace the Status power supply with a special splitter from sky. Feed in the signal from the sky box into the splitter and it will distribute signal to the other points within the caravan. You can also use sky + this way.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

I am pleased that your mattress problem has been resolved, but it is unfortunate that you had to threaten to use the SOGA to get action.

You seem to be supportive of the dealer in this, although it was the dealer you had to threaten with court action to get a result, and in my view rightly so.

I take different perspective to your own: The dealer should not have accepted faulty goods from the manufacture in the first place. They should have been rejected back to the manufacture rather than being put on sale to the public. I appreciate that the problem with the mattress may not have been obvious at the time of sale.

However as soon as they were aware that the mattress was faulty, they should have immediately replaced or refunded you, and battled the manufacturer on their own behalf. It is their sole obligation under SOGA - not the manufacturers to resolve your problem. It should not have required the threat of SOGA action by you to resolve matter to your satisfaction. So in my view the dealer has failed (as confirmed by their capitulation under threat of action).

With any business you take a calculated risk with any transaction. The profit you make is under threat if the goods you supply are faulty. It is not always possible to pass the claim back further down the supply chain that is the risk.

Caravanners (and other consumers) Consumers do not know enough about their legal rights, and if they did, they would not be so easily swayed by an opinion made by a manufacturer when pursuing a warranty claim against the supplier.

In turn, if the suppliers were to fully realise that they are accountable to their customers for faulty goods, then perhaps they would put more pressure on to their own suppliers and manufacturers to supply goods fit for purpose.

 

[RogerL]

Just a point regarding the above statement by Ray S.

NCC Approved workshops do actually have to have either a member of staff qualified to 16th Edition regs, including Part P OR access to one to become registered.

Not by requirement they don't - ACW aren't required to have any technical qualifications - if the have qualified electricians or gas fitters on their staff that's nothing to do with ACW, and very unusual.

 

[SBS]

Regarding the status aerial, the best thing for it is the bin. If you take Sky with you when caravanning, replace the Status power supply with a special splitter from sky. Feed in the signal from the sky box into the splitter and it will distribute signal to the other points within the caravan. You can also use sky + this way.

Seems a little harsh. I have heard little criticism of the Status 530 directional aerials. We have an externally mounted Image 530/18 which gives excellent results on digital as well as terrestrial TV. Were you thinking of the 315 omnidierectional?