Winter tyres al year round

[otherclive]

Knowing the benefits of winter tyres I am somewhat put off by having to buy and then store tyres. If ones mileage is say below 10k pa would it be worthwhile just keeping winter tyres on all year. I have searched for info on their warm weather performance (dry and wet braking) and at what tread depth they cease to be any use for winter driving but with little effect. The alternative is to stick with M&S rated tyers and carry autosox or Michelin grips. A cynic told me that any improvement in winter grip only gets you as far as the next jackknifed HGV!

 

[RogerL]

Some "all-season" tyres are M+S and snowflake rated - they won't be as good as the very best snow tyres but way better than "summer" tyres in cold, wet or snowy conditions (cold being 7C or below) - they can also be used all year round. Downside is that most "all-season" tyres aren't so rated so you'll have to check very carefully.
For tread depth it's probably best to follow the German lead - where winter tyres are required they MUST have 3mm tread - in reality Germans replace their winter tyres at about 4mm which is why they're available second-hand in the UK but not recommended.
Pirelli Scorpion STR, Vredestein Quatrac 3 and Quatrac 3 SUV have both M+S and Snowflake ratings but aren't available in all sizes.
Using a full snow tyre all year round is likely to wear out very quickly in warmer conditions.
One absolute truth - a 2wd car on winter tyres is much better than a 4wd car on summer tyres.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for the feedback. My son uses Pirelli STR on his CRV and they performed well. My present tyres are Pirelli Scorpion Zero Assimetrico which are well above 4mm tread and are M&S rated but no snowflake. So i guess I will see how they perform this winter and take a rain check on full winter spec tyres. The present ones are £150 (ish) each so I don't fancy spending that much again unless absolutely necessary. Better to shoe OH's Nissan Note with full winter boots!

 

[Lutz]

M&S and winter tyres are not one and the same. As has been mentioned there are M&S tyres which are not winter tyres (i.e. they don't have the 'snowflake' symbol) and likewise there are winter tyres which are not M&S.
The only disadvantage of running winter tyres all year round is that they wear quicker because they are made with a softer rubber compound.

 

[Surfer]

M&S and winter tyres are not one and the same. As has been mentioned there are M&S tyres which are not winter tyres (i.e. they don't have the 'snowflake' symbol) and likewise there are winter tyres which are not M&S.
The only disadvantage of running winter tyres all year round is that they wear quicker because they are made with a softer rubber compound.

Are winter tyres also narrower, i.e. less tread on the road?

 

[RogerL]

Are winter tyres also narrower, i.e. less tread on the road?

Sometimes, but often not - your car handbook should specify the winter tyre size that's been homologated - it may also be on a data plate on the car.

 

[Lutz]

Usually one would fit winter tyres of the same size as the summer tyres. However, sometimes the standard tyre width is too wide to take snow chains so one would have to select narrower tyres if you intend to use snow chains as well.

 

[Surfer]

Thanks as I was told that the narrower tyre is better to use in snow and slush as it "digs" into the snow to get a bertter grip on the road.

 

[RogerL]

Thanks as I was told that the narrower tyre is better to use in snow and slush as it "digs" into the snow to get a bertter grip on the road.

That used to be regarded as absolute but some now advocate as wide as possible to spread the load, like snowshoes.

 

[joeby]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259582/tyre_test_2011.html?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=f341d8a349227cd89ab44dad49444437
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click on the above link for the Auto express 2011 tyre test

 

[Dustydog]

I personally don't know anyone who keeps a set of winters in the garage. Are there that many people doing it?
I use B F Goodrich All Terrains which suit us fine as we caravan all year round. They last approx 40k each and imo work fine in mud and snow.

 

[joeby]

we drove down to Spain a couple of years back , and drove over 500 mile through France in heavy snow , in temperatures of minus 10 , even with the heating full on the screen the wiper blades were freezing and we had to stop and clear them off , allthough we did keep the car in 4 wheel drive , the anti lock braking system would come on just doing 10 mph in the services , but we never had any trouble with wheel spin , and our tyres are Enduro HT Runway ,which are a budget tyre , and they are fine for us

 

[Lutz]

Winter tyres are a legal requirement in a number of Continental countries, notably:
Belgium (1. October - 30. April)
Germany (as conditions require)
France (in alpine regions, where signposted)
Italy (where signposted)
Austria (1. November - 15. April, as conditions require)

 

[RogerL]

Winter tyres are a legal requirement in a number of Continental countries, notably:
Belgium (1. October - 30. April)
Germany (as conditions require)
France (in alpine regions, where signposted)
Italy (where signposted)
Austria (1. November - 15. April, as conditions require)

The inclusion of countries with Alpine regions is no surprise - but does Belgium really need them as a legal requirement?
I'm not questioning your information Lutz, more the Belgians!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Roger,

I think the fact that Belgium has a time/date related requirement for winter tyres, and that the country does not suffer alpine conditions suggests that the authorities believe the performance of 'winter tyres' is adequate when there is no snow or ice.

I don't know about the life expectancy I have a feeling that will be just as variable as normal tyres, and will be make/model and driving style dependent.

As for the width of the tyre and its effectiveness, I suspect that is depends on the particular conditions, for example if the surface is compacted ice, then a narrower (subject to tyre pressure) tread will provide a greater thrust per unit area . This should provide a better grip than a wider tyre running at a lower pressure. where as for loose or powdery snow a larger contact area will reduce the compression of the snow helping to keep the tyre riding over it rather than through it.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for the various posts on this topic. I can see the benefits of winter tyres both for snow and ice, and also when the ambient temperature is below 7 deg C. I could accept increased wear rates if such tyres were fitted all year as the tow car can be kept below 10k miles pa and I usually cahnge tyres at 3mm. What would deter me from such an approach is if winter tyres have inferior grip for stopping and cornering on wet/dry roads at summer temperatures. I tend to think that they should be like F1 super slicks in that the softer rubber/polymer compounds do give even better grip at higher temperatures but I have yet to find any evidence. From the trades perspective keeping winter tyres on all year would not achieve the sales growth they will be seeking.

 

[Shirker]

. A cynic told me that any improvement in winter grip only gets you as far as the next jackknifed HGV!

I think this is your most important point. In the deep snow last December I was in a 4wd pickup and having no problems but it still took nearly four hours to do 6 miles homes from Cheltenham due to other traffic getting stuck. Having winter tyres on my car wouldn't have helped - got to be a factor when considering the cost.

 

[Shirker]

. A cynic told me that any improvement in winter grip only gets you as far as the next jackknifed HGV!

Oops, double post .

 

[Lutz]

A cynic told me that any improvement in winter grip only gets you as far as the next jackknifed HGV!

Chances are that with winter tyres you'll be able to stop before you hit that jacknifed HGV.