1994 Buccaneer Crusader has a small problem

[Hughtheboatman]

We acquired the above van a few days ago and I'm trying to rectify a few defects and shortages.
A clip-on butane regulator with about 30cm of 8mm ID hose was lying inside one bottle storage compartment and there was a 94 vintage pigtail with nothing on the 'regulator end', but the pigtail was 6mm ID and was attached to what looks like a solenoid valve. The valve has a copper pipe coming out of the other connection.
I had hoped that I could remove the 6mm pigtail and replace it with an 8mm one and then attach a new regulator, but I can't get the 6mm one off. It has been suggested that it might be a left-hand thread but it is some miles away from me now so I can't explore that possibility.
It is now over 50 years since I had anything to do with caravans so I would welcome any advice out there in expert-land.

Thanks in advance, Hugh.

 

[Mr Plodd]

If the pigtail nut has a "groove" around it (which from the picture it appears it does) Then it is a LH thread.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would be surprised if either of the nuts on the solenoid valve were LH thread. But equally I wonder why the caravan was fitted with a solenoid valve? It's something else to go wrong, and it will consume probably 5 to 6W of power, (roughly 0.5A at 12V) .

I would be inclined to have the valve removed and replaced with gas pipe connector
with . with LPG safe hosing to a cylinder top (screw on or clip on) regulator to suit your choice of gas cylinder.

Check your gas regulator has the required output pressure for the appliances in the caravan.

I also recommend that as its such an old caravan, that's new to you to have all the gas system professionally checked for safety and function.

 

[Mr Plodd]

Below shows a LH nut, note the groove in the corners of the flats.

 

[Jcloughie]

Just strip out everything to do with the bottle or bottles connections and renew. You have already found one component 25 years past its sell be date.

Also have it done or checked by a qualified person.

My daughter and son in law had a VW converted a few years ago and the company went bust before full completion. The electrics have always played up. The gas has worked and not leaked, but evidently it is not fitted legally.

They have just had a habitation service done and they found problems with both gas and electric that were missed on previous services, (So so much for their qualifications). They want £750 to fix.

The SIL is a commercial gas fitter, So he is going to pay the £90 for the LP certificate, and do the work properly himself. He has roped his electrician son in to do the electrics. (He has not told him yet).


John

 

[Hughtheboatman]

Thank you for your answers, comments and suggestions so far - all taken aboard.

Up here in the Northern Isles, we recognise 'competence' as slightly different from 'paper qualifications' as residents might be retired nuclear engineers, master mariners, or turbine installers. Just saying...and I'm not any of those!

 

[ProfJohnL]

I take gas safety very seriously, having professionally been involved with investigations where caravan owners have tampered with appliances or installations and have suffered harm. One family were rescued with only minuets to spare of fatal CO poisoning.

I can only base my assessment of apparent competence on the correspondence we see in the forum, and in many cases the types of questions can hint at the writers level of understanding of the subject and possible capability.

Where that raises doubts about competence, for reasons of gas safety it's better to refer the correspondent to a professional.

Depending on the circumstances, it is actually a legal requirement as the law states that such work must only be carried out by a registered fitter with the correct approvals. That applies regardless of all other qualifications or prior experience, and it is a criminal offence to work on most installations without the correct authority.

Even where the law does allow work to be carried out by a non registered person, such as specific cases of the private owner of a touring caravan or self propelled motor caravan not lent or hired or used as part of a business, it is still a requirement that the correct processes and standards of work will comply with ACOPS. It's very unlikely a non professional will have the required knowledge or access to the required calibrated test equipment.

I sorry if this seems overkill, but I have seen too many fire damaged appliances and caravans or injuries as the aftermath of incompetent tinkering too many times to be able to ignore the risk of giving out dangerous advice.

 

[Hughtheboatman]

Thanks for all the help so far, and we now have working mains electricity and Nanette gas cooker. The next items on the 'to fix' list are the extractor fan and refrigerator.
I have left a large owner' s file in the van which is some ten miles away and I'm trying to find out which mcb and fuse run those items. I have been in touch with the previous owners who inform me that these items did work, but the fridge and water heater should be serviced before use. The van is not going anywhere so I'm not planning to run the fridge on gas or 12v, but it would be nice if it worked on 240v and of course the extractor fan over the hob is very important. I don't want to pester the good folk here with endless questions and the manuals on ManualsLib refer to much later models so can anyone point me to a manual for the 1995 model year, please? It has an Electrolux fridge.
I attach a snap of the gas solenoid; either a previous owner had shares in Hylomar or used it on purpose to prevent the valve from cutting off the supply

 

[Buckman]

We have a more modern Buccaneer, but would be very interested in seeing pictures of the outside and also the inside. Sorry cannot help with the technical side.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The picture you show in #8 again shows that someone who does not know about the correct way to plumb LPG has been messing with the installation. There is far too much red sealant inside the solenoid connection, some of which could detach from the mass and compromise the safe operation of the valve.

A properly made compression connection does not need additional sealant., and I obviously cant tell from a picture, but I wonder if the correct LPG complaint sealant has even been used. The consequence of the wrong sealant is the LPG will actually dissolve the sealant, and thus any leak it was preventing will begin to leak again.

I urge you to have the entire gas system and appliances professionally checked for your safety.

 

[Hughtheboatman]

We have a more modern Buccaneer, but would be very interested in seeing pictures of the outside and also the inside. Sorry cannot help with the technical side.

I'll try to send a few pics after we've cleaned some of the green algae off it

 

[Hughtheboatman]

The picture you show in #8 again shows that someone who does not know about the correct way to plumb LPG has been messing with the installation. There is far too much red sealant inside the solenoid connection, some of which could detach from the mass and compromise the safe operation of the valve.

A properly made compression connection does not need additional sealant., and I obviously cant tell from a picture, but I wonder if the correct LPG complaint sealant has even been used. The consequence of the wrong sealant is the LPG will actually dissolve the sealant, and thus any leak it was preventing will begin to leak again.

I urge you to have the entire gas system and appliances professionally checked for your safety.

Thank you for your concern, Prof, and I only posted the valve photo as a bit of light humour, in case you skipped the associated text.
I trained as an engineer in a steelworks, then in the Merchant Navy, then worked as diver before spending a few years offshore as an ROV technician ;-)

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you for your concern, Prof, and I only posted the valve photo as a bit of light humour, in case you skipped the associated text.
I trained as an engineer in a steelworks, then in the Merchant Navy, then worked as diver before spending a few years offshore as an ROV technician ;-)

We have no way of knowing what profession, experience or qualifications a poster has unless they tell us, and becasue this is an anonymous forum we have no way of verifying what a poster may claim. Equally you cannot know my own professional status, which is why my sign off says what of says.

When it comes to matters of safety and especially LPG gas safety (a subject I am well versed in professionally), It is not appropriate to make obtuse postings or make fun of the subject.

We cannot see the wry smile you may have when you make a post, so it has to be taken at face value.

 

[Hughtheboatman]

We have no way of knowing what profession, experience or qualifications a poster has unless they tell us, and becasue this is an anonymous forum we have no way of verifying what a poster may claim. Equally you cannot know my own professional status, which is why my sign off says what of says.

When it comes to matters of safety and especially LPG gas safety (a subject I am well versed in professionally), It is not appropriate to make obtuse postings or make fun of the subject.

We cannot see the wry smile you may have when you make a post, so it has to be taken at face value.

Thank you. Perhaps I should edit the earlier post to remove the solenoid valve picture and comment? I could have mentioned my years with H.M.Coastguard which included being on a Cliff Rescue Team and also a Fast Rescue Boat crewmember, followed by a few years with the RNLI, to convey my experience in risk assessment, but didn't think it relevant on a caravan forum.
I look forward to news of the extractor fan and fridge circuitry.

 

[Hutch]

Thank you. Perhaps I should edit the earlier post to remove the solenoid valve picture and comment? I could have mentioned my years with H.M.Coastguard which included being on a Cliff Rescue Team and also a Fast Rescue Boat crewmember, followed by a few years with the RNLI, to convey my experience in risk assessment, but didn't think it relevant on a caravan forum.
I look forward to news of the extractor fan and fridge circuitry.

Leave the photo in, it shows what some people do to try and fix problems. This is Practical Caravan.

 

[toad a caravan]

Any fridge details would assist IE model it's inside usually.. maybe top left when the doors open... Gary

 

[Hughtheboatman]

Any fridge details would assist IE model it's inside usually.. maybe top left when the doors open... Gary

Hi Gary, it is an Electrolux RM4271.

 

[Hughtheboatman]

Update time. We've been out to the van and examined the big ringbinder full of most of its original documents. The fridge's green light comes on when the 240v switch is selected. I was disappointed that I couldn't hear a compresor humming, but then figured out that that was because it doesn't have one. The handbook says wait a good while for it to chill down, which I hadn't. Here at 59N one can usually leave food outside rather than in a fridge
We didn't have time to explore the hob extractor fan issue, and it isn't mentioned in anything I've read so far. Perhaps it doesn't have one?

Venturing back to the thorny issue of the LPG connection, I'm having trouble figuring out why there is evidence of much red pipe sealing compound at the gas solenoid on a van bought new in January 1995, while the 6mm hose to the (missing) original regulator has a date stamp of 94 on it. To me, it points to 94 hose being used at a very early, perhaps the first maintenance inspection and hose replacement. Surely the proud new owner wouldn't have taken it to an incompetent service person? So whodunnit?

 

[RogerL]

The date on the hose is manufacturing date so a 94 hose is consistent with being original when the caravan as built/used in '95

 

[Hughtheboatman]

The date on the hose is manufacturing date so a 94 hose is consistent with being original when the caravan as built/used in '95

Any thoughts as to why someone would crouch into the gas compartment and disconnect the solenoid valve and then reconnect it using red compound on compression joints that don't need it, while not replacing the orange hose while they were in there?
I love a mystery but prefer it when they are solved.

 

[RogerL]

Any clues from the solenoid wiring as to it's purpose? Caravans aren't usually equipped with any solenoids in the gas system.

 

[Hughtheboatman]

Any clues from the solenoid wiring as to it's purpose? Caravans aren't usually equipped with any solenoids in the gas system.

The van is hoaching with security and safety systems, inc. microswitches on the battery compartment door, steadies and under the floor. The one in question detects gas and switches off the bottle, or used to. Presumably one has to disable it after eating beans. That system came with a comprehensive one-year guarantee.

Actually, I may have answered my own question. Perhaps the sealant was added when the original gas detection system was replaced with a later one.