1st July

[colin-yorkshire]

well lord B

I could not have put a better argument for a alchohol ban my self well done sir.

while all you non smokers rejoice in the smoking ban remember as I said in my post you drinkers will be next.

now back to smoking good idea.

pause while I light up?.

what gets me is that every one who is a favour of the ban has it from the wrong angle and has not thought it through properly.

I keep hearing and reading "smokers are selfish there poluting my air" but who are the selfish ones wanting to forcebly stop some one else from doing somthing they dont like.

it's easy keep away from places where people smoke it's as simple as that if you dont like the smoke in a pub sit outside?.

there you are no smoke, ah they say in one breath? why should I have to sit outside when I want to be inside? and in the other breath say that smokers should be outside so I can sit inside unless its warm then I want to sit outside as well so stop smoking alltogether best idea because I don't like it.

well thats rubbish if you dont like loud pop music you wouldn't go to a rock consert would you? or have them banned.

a total ban is not nessesary just better segrigation. it easy smoking pubs and non smoking pubs restaraunts you can smoke in others you can't its simple already there are significantly more places that are smoke free than are not. want a list ok

buses

trains

airoplanes

cinemas

most cafes and eateries

nearly all work places

hospitals

civic buildings

shops

and probably a dozen other places I can't think of,thirty years ago the anti smoking lobby may of had a point where smoking was permitted just about every where, but not today, but still there not satified and want a total ban why?

what the hell as it got to do with them if I want to smoke they dont have to occupy MY space do they??

light another cig??

what is being missed here is that smokers pay more in taxes than anyone else and tabacco revenue props up the nations finances just look how much effort customs and exises do to curb illegal imports of tabacco and how much revenue it costs the exchecker

and thats just the illegal stuff add that to the legal purchases

and it more than pays for the whole of the national health service.

if a total ban on smoking came in (and it never will)and every one in the land stopped (exept for me and david hockney) the shortfall in the nations financies would be catastropic and how the hell do you think the chancellor would recover the money???have a guess? yours is as good as mine??

fuel tax?

car tax?

vat?

income tax?

road tolls?

caravan tax?

water tax?

window tax?(its been tried once?)

clean air tax?

sunshine tax?(that will be expensive with global warming)

snow tax?(not so expensive)

then the blue rinse brigade will really have something to moan about won't they.

oh and before I go a update on smoking in the cab issue,

the managemnt have sent out letters asking drivers not to smoke in the cabs while at work as this will be illegal from 1st of july, however smoke breaks will be permitted through out the working day providing deliveries are not late? so there you are sorted. go like hell get in front stop get out have a ***? nice one. well happy.

colin

 

[Viking1]

I too am glad that law as been passed.

I all so wondering were the grommet are going to get all that taxes what they are going to be losing.

Mark

 

[BigRoy]

Colin, this may be of some interest to you and any other truckers who smoke

http://trucknetuk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23607
Roy (smoker)

 

[AlanChristine]

I have just read all the comments/debates re the anti smoking law and i must say i have never laughed so much for ages!!!It amazes me how the gov can bring out a law to combat some thing that does not exist.Techincally,there is no law to say i can/cannot smoke.It is a freedom of choice by the individual.It is their money there wasting,no one elses.Healthwise there is not one health issue that is TOTALLY responsible for ill health,it is a contributing factor like many other things in this world and as such a risk that you as the individual takes!!The full facts of smoking are not made clear only those that the lobbists WANT you to see.How many of you out there have seen the pro smoking side factual information on smoking??Its a world where everyone wants to blames some else except themselves and the gov are obliged to be seen to be doing something about it to keep the peace.We all have choices,If you dont smoke dont enter smoke permited places theres enough out there.I cant wait for a total ban on kids in pubs and especially planes(who ALWAYS seem to sit behind me!)that scream to get their own way!Now that would be sheer bliss!!Anybody out there willing to join my lobby??Is'nt it time we all learned to live n let live after all we are only on this earth once and we all die of short of breath anyway,so should we not enjoy ourselves while we're here??

Christine (Alans wife)

 

[Icemaker]

Christine, Most people will agree including myself that everybody has a right to do what they want, but you must understand that your rights must not infringe on the rights of others.

Ten years ago smokers probably made up the majority so in no way would a ban of smoking in public places have worked, however smokers are now very much the minority so they must understand that the majority have more rights to a smoke free atmosphere.

It does appear that a lot of people are saying this is a ban on smoking, its is only a ban on smoking in public places so your rights are not being infringed in any way, its just that you as the minority will now have to go outside whilst the majority either stay where they are or choose to join you if they so wish.

Nobody including smokers have been banned from public places only the cigarette, pipe, cigar, etc have.

I do have some sympathy though regarding the kicking kid in the seat behind on the plane, i too allways seem to get one including on a flight back from turkey when i had two brocken ribs, it was agony made unbearable by the little so and so but it was over in 5 hours so i did not suffer too much, hope i dont get one on my flight to the caribean next aprill though, 10 hours of bitting my lip just to keep the peace, lol.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

"The full facts of smoking are not made clear only those that the lobbists WANT you to see.How many of you out there have seen the pro smoking side factual information on smoking"??

I will put my hand up, I haven't seen it but somehow I cannot believe that it will say it is natural for humans to fill their lungs with smoke.

I don't know if you have children Christine but if you smoked during pregnancy so did that child although that child had no say in the matter.

I have seen lots of placentas in my past work and just by looking at one it tells if the mother is a smoker. Instead of a nice pink healthy placenta it is dark purple.

Icemaker has it right in a nutshell Christine ... "you must understand that your rights must not infringe on the rights of others". For you to think otherwise is very selfish.

Now your point about children in pubs, I agree with you 100%, they have enough time later in life to use them without making them apprentices for the future drinking culture by seeing how drunken adults act in public.

When my own children were small we would take them to a pub where they had a garden and we stayed with them, not leaving them to their own devices while we propped the bar up.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

I have just read all the comments/debates re the anti smoking law and i must say i have never laughed so much for ages!!!It amazes me how the gov can bring out a law to combat some thing that does not exist.Techincally,there is no law to say i can/cannot smoke.It is a freedom of choice by the individual.It is their money there wasting,no one elses.Healthwise there is not one health issue that is TOTALLY responsible for ill health,it is a contributing factor like many other things in this world and as such a risk that you as the individual takes!!The full facts of smoking are not made clear only those that the lobbists WANT you to see.How many of you out there have seen the pro smoking side factual information on smoking??Its a world where everyone wants to blames some else except themselves and the gov are obliged to be seen to be doing something about it to keep the peace.We all have choices,If you dont smoke dont enter smoke permited places theres enough out there.I cant wait for a total ban on kids in pubs and especially planes(who ALWAYS seem to sit behind me!)that scream to get their own way!Now that would be sheer bliss!!Anybody out there willing to join my lobby??Is'nt it time we all learned to live n let live after all we are only on this earth once and we all die of short of breath anyway,so should we not enjoy ourselves while we're here??

Christine (Alans wife)

ME I will be the first? but only if you include supermarkets as well??. even got special parking places for the ******* I went shopping with the wife the other week @ 1am in a 24hrs market prior to setting off on a overnight jaunt with the van and there were kids in there even then.

 

[CRUSADER2801]

Christine,

Applying your rationale " We all have choices,If you dont smoke dont enter smoke permited places" then surely the answer for you is not to go into pubs or on planes that do not allow smoking or children.

Before my daughter was born we used Aduly Only sites where available - now we don't. Similarly I would never even contemplate taking her into any premises be they pub or otherwise where she would be exposed to cigarette smoke. When she is old enough to make an informed choice she can decide for herself.

However the fact remains, as expressed on a number of occassions in this debate, that smokers cannot enjoy the freedom of their individual choice without impacting others. This applies to all smokers - not all drinkers or children for that matter, only the minority, encrouch on others by their actions.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all.

if people are so anti smoke why go where it is, stay away thats the short answer.

"you must understand that your rights must not infringe on the rights of others". For you to think otherwise is very selfish.

its just that you as the minority will now have to go outside whilst the majority either stay where they are or choose to join you if they so wish.

just a couple of quotes from this thread and is strikes me that its the non smokers that are being selfish not the smokers after all you dont have to be where smokers are but have the right to join them and then complain about the smoke? ok I smoke I dont drink my choice so i dont go into pubs.

but if I did what is my choice go in the bar order a drink go outside into the tent and stand up to drink it because I can't get a seat because of all the none smokers in there? and in the bar loads of seats I can't use? now who's the selfish ones.

my freedoms as a smoker dont seem to matter and they should because it will be your freedoms that are next who will be the next minority that can be picked on and will anyone care probably not.

but when everyones tax burden rises due to the shortfall in tabacco revenues I suspect it will be too late to complain at all and the I told you approach will fall on deaf ears.

colin

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Some initial facts and figures

About 106,000 people in the UK die each year due to smoking. Smoking-related deaths are mainly due to cancers, COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease) and heart disease.

About half of all smokers die from smoking-related diseases.

If you are a long-term smoker, on average your life expectancy is about 8-12 years less than a non-smoker. Put another way, in the UK about 8 in 10 non-smokers live past the age of 70, but only about half of long-term smokers live past 70.

The younger you are when you start smoking, the more likely you are to smoke for longer and to die early from smoking.

Many smoking-related deaths are not 'quick deaths'. For example, if you develop COPD you can expect several years of illness and distressing symptoms before you die.

Smoking increases the risk of developing a number of other diseases (listed below). Many of these may not be fatal, but they can cause years of unpleasant symptoms.

Which diseases are caused or made worse by smoking?

Lung cancer. About 30,000 people in the UK die from lung cancer each year. More than 8 in 10 cases are directly related to smoking.

Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or COPD. About 25,000 people in the UK die each year from this serious lung disease. More than 8 in 10 of these deaths are directly linked to smoking. People who die of COPD are usually quite unwell for several years before they die.

Heart disease is the biggest killer illness in the UK. About 120,000 people in the UK die each year from heart disease. About 1 in 7 of these deaths are due to smoking.

Other cancers - of the mouth, nose, throat, larynx, gullet (oesophagus), pancreas, bladder, cervix, blood (leukaemia), and kidney are all more common in smokers.

Circulation. The chemicals in tobacco can damage the lining of the blood vessels and affect the level of lipids (fats) in the bloodstream. This increases the risk of atheroma forming (sometimes called 'hardening' of the arteries). Atheroma is the main cause of heart disease. It is also the main cause of strokes, peripheral vascular disease (poor circulation of the legs), and aneurysms (swollen arteries which can burst causing internal bleeding). All of these atheroma-related diseases are more common in smokers.

Sexual problems. Smokers are more likely than non-smokers to become impotent or have difficulty in maintaining an erection in middle life. This is thought to be due to smoking-related damage of the the blood vessels to the penis.

Ageing. Smokers tend to develop more 'lines' on their face at an earlier age than non-smokers. This often makes smokers look older than they really are.

Fertility is reduced in smokers (both male and female).

Menopause. On average, women who smoke have a menopause nearly two years earlier than non-smokers.

Other conditions where smoking often causes worse or more prolonged symptoms include: asthma, the common cold, flu, chest infections, tuberculosis, chronic rhinitis, diabetic retinopathy, hyperthyroidism, multiple sclerosis, optic neuritis, and Crohn's disease.

Smoking increases the risk of developing various other conditions including: optic neuropathy, cataract, macular degeneration, cryptogenic fibrosing alveolitis, psoriasis, gum disease, tooth loss, osteoporosis and Raynaud's phenomenon.

Smoking in pregnancy increases the risk of:

Miscarriage.

Complications of pregnancy, including bleeding during pregnancy, detachment of the placenta, premature birth, and ectopic pregnancy.

Low birth weight. Babies born to women who smoke are on average 200 grams (8 oz) lighter than babies born to comparable non-smoking mothers. Premature and low birth weight babies are more prone to illness and infections.

Congenital defects in the baby - such as cleft palate.

Stillbirth or death within the first week of life - the risk is increased by about one-third.

Poorer long-term growth, development, and health of the child. On average, compared to children born to non-smokers, children born to smokers are smaller, have lower achievements in reading and maths, and have an increased risk of developing asthma.

How does smoking affect other people?

Children and babies who live in a home where there is a smoker:

are more prone to asthma and ear, nose and chest infections. About 17,000 children under five years old in England and Wales are admitted to hospital each year due to illnesses caused by their parents smoking.

have an increased risk of dying from cot death (sudden infant death syndrome).

are more likely than average to become smokers themselves when older.

on average, do less well at reading and reasoning skills compared to children in smoke-free homes, even at low levels of smoke exposure.

are at increased risk of developing chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and cancer as adults.

Passive smoking of adults. You have an increased risk of lung cancer and heart disease if you are exposed to other people smoking for long periods of time. Tobacco smoke is also an irritant, and can make asthma and other conditions worse.

Unborn babies. Described in pregnancy section above.

Other problems with smoking

Your breath, clothes, hair, skin, and home smell of stale tobacco. You do not notice the smell if you smoke, but to non-smokers the smell is usually obvious and unpleasant.

Your sense of taste and smell are dulled. Enjoyment of food and drink may be reduced.

Smoking is expensive.

Life insurance is more expensive.

Finding a job may be more difficult as employers know that smokers are more likely to have sick leave than non-smokers. More than 34 million working days (1% of total) are lost each year because of smoking-related sick leave.

Potential friendships and romances may be at risk. (Smoking is not the attractive thing that cigarette advertisers portray.)

 

[CRUSADER2801]

Colin (Yorks) - your freedoms as a smoker do matter. I have not read anywhere in this thread anyone stating that this should be removed - only that this freedom should not be allowed to adversly impact others, particularly in a public place. For similar reasons Local councils have already banned the consumption of alcohol in public places such as parks and the Caravan Club only allow ball games in designated areas.

I do not have issue with smoking in areas that are not open to the general public, as suggested I would simply choose no go there. However to say smokers or any other user group should be given dispensation in a public place would be unacceptable and therefore the rules must cover the majority or all users.

If you and I are were in the same room and I was drinking alcohol - this would have no direct impact on you. If you light up this would directly impact me and potentially my health. This is the fundemental difference.

In terms of the impact of a reduction in tobacco revenues I would also like to hear the otherside of the argument i.e. how much would the NHS save if not having to treat smoking related illnesses or the affects of smoking on other medical conditions.

 

[AlanChristine]

ME I will be the first? but only if you include supermarkets as well??. even got special parking places for the ******* I went shopping with the wife the other week @ 1am in a 24hrs market prior to setting off on a overnight jaunt with the van and there were kids in there even then.

Hi Colin!! Glad someone out there agrees with me on the kids issue! you are at the top of the list!I plan to include ALL public places that allow kids entry.to me they are a danger to health as they cause stress(key factor to heart troubles according to the heart foundation) and stress can cause obestiy(major cause of heart condition according to slimming world) plus obesity can cause kidney failure,liver conditions,diabetes,asthma,ask any one who attends overweight clinics at the doctors!Dont think i need to go on as I think I've made the point re the smoking issue.So in order to live a healthy life and not infringe on other peoples rights,dont drink or smoke,carry/use umberellas in wet weather,use pushchairs designed to crush other peoples feet,have pets of any kind,drive a shopping trolley without a license......the list is endless! The point is all these thing can cause harm to health and are in the minority,just like smokers and if thats the case,the problem is not as bad as the A.S.B(anti smoking brigade) make out.As a point of interest,did you know that too in hale the equiverlent of 1 ciggy,you would have to sit in a smoke filled room for 75hrs with no windows or doors?

 

[AlanChristine]

"The full facts of smoking are not made clear only those that the lobbists WANT you to see.How many of you out there have seen the pro smoking side factual information on smoking"??

I will put my hand up, I haven't seen it but somehow I cannot believe that it will say it is natural for humans to fill their lungs with smoke.

I don't know if you have children Christine but if you smoked during pregnancy so did that child although that child had no say in the matter.

I have seen lots of placentas in my past work and just by looking at one it tells if the mother is a smoker. Instead of a nice pink healthy placenta it is dark purple.

Icemaker has it right in a nutshell Christine ... "you must understand that your rights must not infringe on the rights of others". For you to think otherwise is very selfish.

Now your point about children in pubs, I agree with you 100%, they have enough time later in life to use them without making them apprentices for the future drinking culture by seeing how drunken adults act in public.

When my own children were small we would take them to a pub where they had a garden and we stayed with them, not leaving them to their own devices while we propped the bar up.

hi Lord B!I too have seen the the state of placentas that you have described,but not all are totally due to smoking as you state.There are other factors that can cause this.Please inform me as to have you recognise one(on a visual basis) that is due to smoking only?I note that you agree with me on the kids issue and I applaud your parenting skills but dont you feel aggrieved that other less thinking parents dont feel the same way as you?After all they must be in the minority.This is how responsibe smokers feel.I too have children,both adults now,both non smokers but I made sure it was a choice made from being well informed on both sides not bias information

 

[AlanChristine]

Christine, Most people will agree including myself that everybody has a right to do what they want, but you must understand that your rights must not infringe on the rights of others.

Ten years ago smokers probably made up the majority so in no way would a ban of smoking in public places have worked, however smokers are now very much the minority so they must understand that the majority have more rights to a smoke free atmosphere.

It does appear that a lot of people are saying this is a ban on smoking, its is only a ban on smoking in public places so your rights are not being infringed in any way, its just that you as the minority will now have to go outside whilst the majority either stay where they are or choose to join you if they so wish.

Nobody including smokers have been banned from public places only the cigarette, pipe, cigar, etc have.

I do have some sympathy though regarding the kicking kid in the seat behind on the plane, i too allways seem to get one including on a flight back from turkey when i had two brocken ribs, it was agony made unbearable by the little so and so but it was over in 5 hours so i did not suffer too much, hope i dont get one on my flight to the caribean next aprill though, 10 hours of bitting my lip just to keep the peace, lol.

No one has "a right" to do what they want.A "right" is what the gov give you under term,"civil law".It is a law which is not written but granted yet remains unofficial.If under a democratic society,we are all supposed to be equal,why do you think non smokers are privvy to more clean air?

 

[AlanChristine]

Christine,

Applying your rationale " We all have choices,If you dont smoke dont enter smoke permited places" then surely the answer for you is not to go into pubs or on planes that do not allow smoking or children.

Before my daughter was born we used Aduly Only sites where available - now we don't. Similarly I would never even contemplate taking her into any premises be they pub or otherwise where she would be exposed to cigarette smoke. When she is old enough to make an informed choice she can decide for herself.

However the fact remains, as expressed on a number of occassions in this debate, that smokers cannot enjoy the freedom of their individual choice without impacting others. This applies to all smokers - not all drinkers or children for that matter, only the minority, encrouch on others by their actions.

Thanks for you comments.I dont enter non smoking premises,I CHOOSE not to unlike nonsmokers who enter smokin permitted then sit there and complain.I CHOOSE to use family friendly sites as they very often provide better facilities for my disabled partner.While I am aware that there are responsible parents out there,most when on a campsite become irresponsible allowing their kids to run amok and ruin other campers holidays.Parenting skill seem to go out the window with parents unable to divide the holiday time into "kid" time and "adult" time or have I got it wrong and adults are'nt allowed a holiday??

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Colin (Yorks) - your freedoms as a smoker do matter. I have not read anywhere in this thread anyone stating that this should be removed - only that this freedom should not be allowed to adversly impact others, particularly in a public place. For similar reasons Local councils have already banned the consumption of alcohol in public places such as parks and the Caravan Club only allow ball games in designated areas.

I do not have issue with smoking in areas that are not open to the general public, as suggested I would simply choose no go there. However to say smokers or any other user group should be given dispensation in a public place would be unacceptable and therefore the rules must cover the majority or all users.

If you and I are were in the same room and I was drinking alcohol - this would have no direct impact on you. If you light up this would directly impact me and potentially my health. This is the fundemental difference.

In terms of the impact of a reduction in tobacco revenues I would also like to hear the otherside of the argument i.e. how much would the NHS save if not having to treat smoking related illnesses or the affects of smoking on other medical conditions.

and how many non smokers would have passed away already if not

for the advances made in treatments, from tax money from smokers!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

I see lord B as been on the ash web site reading the propaganda and massarged statistics, sorry brother it bulls***t the figures you quote are not realistic but projections made on the assumption that all deseases and ailment where someone has smoked or been in contact with some one who has smoked is automaticly grouped together with other deseases that could be caused by other means and therefore assumed to be smoke related.

for example a child develops asthma and goes to the doctors question one does anyone in the house smoke if the answer is yes then it's smoke related.

if the answer is no does the child visit anyone who smokes answer yes then it's smoke related also if the answer is no then has the child been anywhere in contact with smoke ect.ect.

anyone who has been to the doctors will have had the same line of questioning do you smoke? does anyone in your house smoke? did your parent's smoke? ah well thats what caused it then?

er yes doctor but I worked down the pit for 30 years and suck exhaust pipes in my spare time?? no it wont be that it's a smoking related illness.

LB> seeing as your so good at gathering information try this deduct from the figures all deseases and ilnesses that could be caused by any other substances ie: diet lifestyle co2 immisions ect and also deduct all the figures where a relation has suffered the same illness and therefore remove the possibility of genetic intervention.

I await the results??

also did you know that the biggest killer of great apes wild or in captivity is cancer and heart desease. and that we share 99% of our DNA with chimps and I have not seen many gorillas smoking

have you.

and on the subject of statistics can you tell us how much revenue is raised each year through the sale of tabacco.

SPG I quote: your freedoms as a smoker do matter. I have not read anywhere in this thread anyone stating that this should be removed - only that this freedom should not be allowed to adversly impact others, particularly in a public place.

what do you call a public place? ie: any where you want to go and can go, by the very nature of this statment it consigns me to only the places you cannot go where I still can and thats a restriction of my freedoms by its very nature.

there is in these days no need to go where smoking is permitted as most places are non smoking anyway just a few odd places where smokers can go and now these are going to be banned.

and still no one who is anti smoking has offered a explanation of why non smokers insist on going into smoking areas and then complain about it.

 

[Icemaker]

You obviousley have not read the thread then have you colin ?, i for one have said that people will still go in to the area's designated as smoking "if they so choose".

It is all about protecting non smokers from the the proven health problems related to smoke, you have said it yourself the government makes a substantial income from smoking taxes allthough it is about 80% less than ten years ago so do you really believe the government would put this income at risk without absolute proof that smoking kills ?.

Yes we can try to bring other factors in to the argument like car exhaust fumes, diet, aircraft fumes etc etc but these are things that the majority consider acceptable, unfortunately for you and other smokers the majority now find smoking un- acceptable so you must accept the wishes of the majority, it may not sound fair to you but its the way democracy works, i did not vote labour this year but i have to accept that the majority did no matter how ill informed i think the voters where.

You will still be able to smoke, you will still be able to go out and enjoy a drink, you will still be able to do everything you have allways done except force me and the majority to suffer from your habit so stop moaning stop trying to justify why i should suffer for you and just accept that for once this government has done the right thing.

Smoking kills, i want to live!!.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Wrong colin, it wasn't the ASH website but a medical one. If you don't believe me go to the ASH website and check cos I can't be assed ;O)

Don't forget colin, I smoked for 30 years and I, like you, had my head in the sand and was in denial, defending smoking to the hilt and coming out with all kinds of bullchit to justify my lack of willpower.

Forget all the other diseases smoking causes, just take lung cancer. Have you ever seen anyone die from it? Have you ever been in their lives, watching them trying to breath while racked with pain? When I was 16 I lived with my grandparents and watched my grandfather suffer for months, even having a lung removed. Watching him retch trying to cough up sputum that was blocking his airways. When he finally passed away he was just skin and bone and I could pick him up with one hand.

What you do with your own body colin, and any other smokers for that matter, is up to you and nobody wishes to impede on your freedoms but please don't be selfish by wishing to impede on others freedoms who choose not to breathe in secondhand smoke.

Don't forget, reformed smokers are the worse. Why? Because we have seen the light and the stupidity of killing ourselves and others who breathed our smoke.

gio, your comment above doesn't make sense....

"and how many non smokers would have passed away already if not

for the advances made in treatments, from tax money from smokers"!

are you trying to say that the tax from tobacco funds all the research into medical problems and because of that smokers should be thanked?

 

[CRUSADER2801]

Colin,

By only quoting part of a statement made in the various responses and ignoring the full comments suggests you are struggling to put forward a valid argument to justify your position.

You still have access to public places as a smoker - simply that just like everyone else who enters these places you must abide by the rules set protect the general interests of all users. Which unfortunately for individuals who smoke means no smoking.

From memory there was a chap who posted on this site recently seeking information on naturist caravan sites. I wonder if he feels his rights of access to public places are being infinged? I assume you would be quite happy to be sitting at a table next to him in a restaurant?, albeit he would be in his birthday suite!

The only difference here is that his nudity would not impact anyones health - other than he may catch cold or raise someones blood pressure!

 

[AlanChristine]

hi all

I see lord B as been on the ash web site reading the propaganda and massarged statistics, sorry brother it bulls***t the figures you quote are not realistic but projections made on the assumption that all deseases and ailment where someone has smoked or been in contact with some one who has smoked is automaticly grouped together with other deseases that could be caused by other means and therefore assumed to be smoke related.

for example a child develops asthma and goes to the doctors question one does anyone in the house smoke if the answer is yes then it's smoke related.

if the answer is no does the child visit anyone who smokes answer yes then it's smoke related also if the answer is no then has the child been anywhere in contact with smoke ect.ect.

anyone who has been to the doctors will have had the same line of questioning do you smoke? does anyone in your house smoke? did your parent's smoke? ah well thats what caused it then?

er yes doctor but I worked down the pit for 30 years and suck exhaust pipes in my spare time?? no it wont be that it's a smoking related illness.

LB> seeing as your so good at gathering information try this deduct from the figures all deseases and ilnesses that could be caused by any other substances ie: diet lifestyle co2 immisions ect and also deduct all the figures where a relation has suffered the same illness and therefore remove the possibility of genetic intervention.

I await the results??

also did you know that the biggest killer of great apes wild or in captivity is cancer and heart desease. and that we share 99% of our DNA with chimps and I have not seen many gorillas smoking

have you.

and on the subject of statistics can you tell us how much revenue is raised each year through the sale of tabacco.

SPG I quote: your freedoms as a smoker do matter. I have not read anywhere in this thread anyone stating that this should be removed - only that this freedom should not be allowed to adversly impact others, particularly in a public place.

what do you call a public place? ie: any where you want to go and can go, by the very nature of this statment it consigns me to only the places you cannot go where I still can and thats a restriction of my freedoms by its very nature.

there is in these days no need to go where smoking is permitted as most places are non smoking anyway just a few odd places where smokers can go and now these are going to be banned.

and still no one who is anti smoking has offered a explanation of why non smokers insist on going into smoking areas and then complain about it.

well done colin!! I could not agree with you more!L.B mentionedthat various diseases are made WORSE by smoking but not that they are the actual cause.Please,L.B.clarify was exactly is this "direct link" and how is was identified?Most of the conditions quoted,are genetically generated so please explain how smoking affect something we are BORN with anyway??As fro heart disease and diabetes,check the causes list of the appropriate assoc.Smoking is NOT top of their lists!!T.B is on the rise due to non routine screening(thanks to gov policies) and increases immigration from 3rd world countries.If smoking cause impotence,how come the population(not including immigration) has increased?Surely it should have declined??As for the facial lines,ever heard of old age??Its a fact that we notice the way we look more as we grow older!Last but not least,the "quick Death".No death is quick unless caused by trauma.Its a natural slow process from the mid 40's and even non smokers cant escape from this.As a last note and food for thought,how many of you know that there is a leper colony in the U.K??Is this due to smoking as well??

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

not getting my point across am I, because your not listening are you??.

1.why do non smokers go into smoking areas and then complain about the smoke -- no answer?

the fact of the matter is there is no need for any non smoker to go where smoking is permitted as 90% of places are non smoking anyway a non smoker can aviod smoke easily by not going into smoking areas. so why do they want our 10% as well.

2 how much revenue is raised by smokers -- no answer??

I will try and find out if no one eles will,, I'll let you know?

3 smoking is bad for you?

agreed it does not do much good in promoting a healthy life style but then what does? over eating? lack of exersise? car fumes? food additives? ect. doctors agree dont smoke and then light up in the car on the way home? my local practice has 8 doctors 3 smoke (about the national average 25-30% of the population)one of these actualy one told me once to lose weight because of the health risk its worse than smoking he said? and hes about 20 stone?.

4 smokers have no will power or they would stop?

not true I cant speak for all smokers but only for myself, I smoke because I like it and will continue to do so allbeit in less and less places despite the ban and the blue rinse brigade can go to hell.

got to go to work now for my 10hrs of stress filled driving, we will continue later.

ttfn colin

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

What is a fact is that as I typed above, after stopping smoking I didn't feel any healthier. I still got breathless but that was because the damage to my airways, especially my lungs, was already damaged. What is also a fact is that your sense of taste returns. I now enjoy eating instead of eating so I could enjoy a *** afterwards. Another sense that comes back is smell. I couldn't believe that I smelled like an ashtray when I smoked because smokers simply live with the stink. It permeates the hair, clothes and breathe. Quite simply it stinks. When my son lived at home the hallway where he hung his coat and his bedroom stank of stale tobacco smoke. Nails, fingers and teeth get nicotine stained as well. Is it true that ladies who smoke heavy have a soot fall once a month? hehheh!

 

[colin(bridgend)]

There are always exceptions to the rule - regarding dieing from smoking or smoke related disease my wife's grandfather was a heavy smoker of the non filter type of cigarette and his brother was a heavy pipe smoker - they both lived into their late 80s. However my grandfather smoked 60 Craven Full Strength a day and he died when he was 54. So is there a connection between smoking and death - medics say yes but examples of elderly say otherwise - who can prove one way or the other. I used to smoke a cigar occassionally but have now given that up and feel no difference at all. I told my doctor about this and she said that a pack of six cigars over two weeks was nothing to worry about. A cigar and a whisky and orange in the evening went down a treat, especially if I had a classic car or a caravan magazine to read.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

i am an ex smoker. i cant wait for the ban hooray. if the goverment ban the use of mobile phones then why cant they ban smoking whilst driving totally.

its vile when you see a mother in the car with her kids puffing away then flicking it out of the window. i can smell it from inside my car with the windows shut.

then when we go away all the smokers will be in the services puffing away and the roads and motorways will be much quieter.

jo-anne