2008 Ford Mondeo Estate TDCi 2.0 Zetec V 2008 VW Passat Estate 2.0 SE TDi

[TerryIvybridge]

I've been looking for several days now for a replacement tow car for the 2007 Abbey 416 GTS we are about to pick up. At 1545k Gross, These two cars keep coming up as my preferred choice. I've never had a Mondeo, any views of forum members appreciated.They both have similar pros and cons, and about the same price, but others thoughts might help me choose. Thanks.

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Oh I wish there was a "modify"button on this forum! I meant to post 1545k MTPLM for the 'van.

 

[Auspom]

I am in a similar conundrum regarding which vehicle although mine was originaly between and in order of preference, VW Passat Est 2.0 TDI, Citroen C5 Est & Mondeo Est.
However since doing some research i have now narrowed it down to either the Hyundai Santa Fe or the Kia Sorento both turbo diesels and both have loads of towing grunt and i will test drive both when i get back to the UK then pick the one best suited.
I will be towing a Coachman Amara 5005 with a laden weight of approx 1450kgs and according to What Tow Car both of these are excellent matches although the Sorento has a slightly bigger engine and kerbweight.
Have you considered any of these two as candidates for your Abbey as they should also tow the Abbey quite comfortably.
Tony

 

[soldlisa04]

Just to say we recently bought a Sorento for our Swift Challenger as we had a Mondeo 2.2 Ghia X - we just felt that the Mondeo would have been not so safe towing as a bigger car and, as stated above, the towing match is very good as they are such heavy cars with good towing capabilities. Not quite so good on fuel consumption though as we are finding out but hey ho - you can't have it all ways! Good luck in finding suitable car.

 

[ProfJohnL]

There is a hint of a mind set appearing in some of these answers
'Heavy caravan needs heavy car, therefore heavy 4x4 is the best possible solution'
I challenge part of that mind set.
Let me first clarify that I do agree that the trailer should be kept as light as possible (which is not quite the same thing as having a heavy car)
It is the second point that a heavy 4x4 is better than an ordinary car.
From a purely mechanical aspect, the design of a a 4x4's the way the body may be attached to the chassis, the suspension and the choice of high profile tyres, can mean that the towing and interaction of a heavy trailer and the car may be more fidgety than say a saloon car.
So it can be the case that a good car may out perform some 4x4's in controllability and comfort. It all depends on the choice of vehicles.
As an aside to Auspoms post, All the websites offering tow match services are known to have incomplete information, and some information that is actually wrong. It is essential that they have the data for your exact model of car and caravan, (e.g. make, model, year, and designation such a GE SE GLS etc) and that the data is correct. For that reason do not place blind faith in their outputs, use other methods to compare and hopefully verify any recommendations they produce.

 

[Parksy]

There is a hint of a mind set appearing in some of these answers
'Heavy caravan needs heavy car, therefore heavy 4x4 is the best possible solution'
I challenge part of that mind set...............

.............From a purely mechanical aspect, the design of a a 4x4's the way the body may be attached to the chassis, the suspension and the choice of high profile tyres, can mean that the towing and interaction of a heavy trailer and the car may be more fidgety than say a saloon car.
So it can be the case that a good car may out perform some 4x4's in controllability and comfort. It all depends on the choice of vehicles.............

Speaking as someone who has towed regularly with all types of vehicles my experience has been that my current 4x4 out performs and of the other vehicles that I've owned in the past, in terms of controlability and comfort when towing my Abbey 620 with a MTPLM of 1645kg and less heavy caravans that I've previously owned.
The downside however is that heavy 4X4s are thirsty and fuel prices here are only ever going to go up which would rule out a 4X4 for towing a lighter caravan.
The OP has already bought the caravan so if I had to choose a vehicle to tow that particular caravan I'd be trying to find a heavy non 4x4 with the best fuel economy for the size of vehicle, maybe a people carrier type rather than an estate car or 4X4.

 

[weejock]

If your choice remains between the 2 estate cars I would sum up as such.
If you enjoy driving and like a responsive drive go for the Mondeo. If you like a bit more comfort and a little better quality of interior fitments go for the Passat. Performance wise there is not a lot between them just the way they drive.

 

[xtrailman]

Remember that both the cars though are very large, too large for me, as i only run one vehicle.

The appeal to me with the xtrail is a reasonable weight, new V5c gives mass in service of 1726kg, but is easy to park, and takes up less garage space, takes a 100kg nose load, and tows 2200kg.

A recent trip showed 42mpg on the computer.

Down side is more VED, £245, and less mpg, than a mondeo or passat.

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Ok, found a 2009 Passat 2.0 Highline TDi Estate on Auto trader, local. Right milage and price. Confused now? Mimimum kerb weight given as,1715 kg.GVW 2140 kg with a maximum braked trailer weight of 1800kg. Caravan Club towcar match says 1510 kg kerbweight and 2140kg GVW. CC says towcar unsuitable because kerbweight is unsuitable at102% and unsafe? If 1800kg safe trailer weight by manufacture, 1540 MPTLP for the Abbey falls within this? Help!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Terry,

First of all the accepted definition kerbweight is the vehicles minimum possible weight, so it can't vary. So the fact that you have found different figures for it patently shows that the data bases are clearly untrustworthy, Possible all the data bases are wrong and at best only one is right, but the problem is you don't know which one! - nor do I.

Technically kerbweight is not formally recognised, and different car manufacturers may have different policies on whether to give kerbweight or what is included in the kerbweight figure.

Check your vehicles V5 document which may have the Mass In service(MIS) or Mass In Running Order(MIRO)figures filled in. Alternatively ask the manufacture for the kerbweight by quoting the vehicles VIN number. In the absence of all that strip the car down to its show room delivery condition and get it weighed at a local public weigh bridge.

Caravans are probably one of the most difficult types of trailer to tow. They are relatively long with big sides which means they can easily be disturbed by winds and other vehicles. Their length also means they usually have significant turning forces, all of which can help to upset a tow vehicle.

Consequently it always makes sense to keep a trailers weight as small as possible. How much smaller is subject to an ongoing debate, but the CC along with the rest of the UK caravan industry have arbitrarily decided to recommend new caravanner's should keep their towing ratio to no more than 85%. This is one reason why the CC have advised your outfit is not a good match.

They also go on to recommend that no caravan should exceed the kerb weight of the car, so with their figure of 102% they will clearly be very unhappy with your outfit.

However good safe towing is not just down to the towing ratio. it needs consideration given to all the factors that affect towing. some of the more critical ones are nose weight, and correct tyre pressures and the general condition of the vehicles. In my view the biggest factor is the driver's habits.

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Thanks Prof John, good post. I'm going to get a closer look at the car this morning and look into the kerbweight issue a little more and in any case, with the 'van on, we,the missus and I, will be in it along with at least a porch awning and other bits and bobs. I do understand very well, the important need to get the weights right having spent 15/16 years as an HGV driver, and being a Transport Manager as well.. Given the lowest figure of 1510kg kerbweight, put us two in it and other bits, that would take car total to say, 1600+.kg, obviously heavier than the fully laden 'van at 1540kg. (If it ever was) so I don't know how CC comes up with their unsiutability warning?. Taking the higher figure of 1715kg, this blows their theory right out the water. I'm not questioning either yourself or CC, but as one can see, its all very confusing, ain;t it?

 

[otherclive]

Both are fine cars and make excellent towcars. I have had each of the first three models of Mondeo and they were all good cars and I had no reliabilty issue at all. Mondeo was consistently above Passat in JD Power owners surveys for reliabilty and it may be worth a look at the Warranty Direct Reliability Index which shows data for cars over 3 years old, so the curent model Mondeo would be featured as would the recently superseded Passat. Also one of the German auto websites features such info, it may be ADAC or Autobild.

 

[Parksy]

Check to make sure that Volkswagen haven't stipulated a lower towing weight limit on that model Terry, the data should be in the handbook. I think that Renault used to impose a very low towing limit on some of their models which bore no relation to the weight of the car, I've no idea whether or not Volkswagen do the same on any of their models.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Ok, found a 2009 Passat 2.0 Highline TDi Estate on Auto trader, local. Right milage and price. Confused now? Mimimum kerb weight given as,1715 kg.GVW 2140 kg with a maximum braked trailer weight of 1800kg. Caravan Club towcar match says 1510 kg kerbweight and 2140kg GVW. CC says towcar unsuitable because kerbweight is unsuitable at102% and unsafe? If 1800kg safe trailer weight by manufacture, 1540 MPTLP for the Abbey falls within this? Help!

hi Terry, while John has given you a comprehensive answer that I would agree with 100% 1 or 2 anomalies are allways thrown up surrounding weights, it is one of the reasons I don't like sticking lables on suitable or unsuitable based purely on kerb weights.
I do not wish to muddy the waters as buying a tow car is a big investment and can be costly if one gets it wrong.
but while it is completely feasable that all the data bases are wrong, it is the calculations base that is in question, the C&CC and others would calculate the manufacturers trailer weight ie 1800kg to base a recommendation on while the CC has the pragmatic view of using the kerb weight of 1510kg a difference of some 25% on total trailer weight,
it is a pity some times that forum members dont post much in tecnical when these questions are asked because I am sure that there are members out there who have or have had the same van and could possibly have towed it with either the mondeo or the passat
first hand experience in my view is a better way of gaining knowlege than all the data printed "that may or may not be wrong".

 

[xtrailman]

Weights always vary through a model range, you need the weight for that particular variant, in that year.

Also some manufacturers allow 75kg for a driver included in the weight, some don't.

Nissan for example publish figures excluding the driver.
That's why the 85% is a good target, it allows for weight errors.

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Just come back from a very impressive test drive. Can't believe that it wouldn't be a match for the Abbey. Even in the cars handbook it states 1800 kg max trailer weight! Surely ULW is kerbweight and even so at 1510kg plus two poeple in the car, that puts the car heavier than the 'van, without fuel and any luggage? Even more bloomin' confused now! Going to look at other tow car match sites and see what they say.

 

[mullsy1]

If the nose weight of the Mondeo is 75kg,then you will only be pulling 1465kg and if you dont use all your payload (the van would have a MRO of say 1335) and you load 150kg,you would be pulling only 1410kg which would be about a 93% match

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Thanks Mullsy1, thats the same conclusion I've come to. I don't think, with only two of us, that we've ever come close to the MPLTM in any caravan. With the 416, its a heavier 'van than perhaps we wanted, but its payload capacity of 205kg, thats more than we ever take with us including a battery and gas. Favouring the Mondeo at the moment. Must try one on a test drive.

 

[mullsy1]

There's only the two of us and when I weighed everything we load about 150kg but that includes the cadac and awning and such.Dont be tempted though to overload the car because you must stay within your gross train weight

 

[ProfJohnL]

Several contributors have raised detail points that shows how inept the conventional towing ratio calculation is at representing the actual situation.

However in the absence of a more refined and realistic method being adopted by the industry, we should continue to use:-

100 x Trailer MTPLM / Car kerbweight Percentage. It is at least a consistent and unvarying procedure.

The oft quoted 85% should not be considered a hard and fast 'Target' as a few percent either way is unlikely to case a major change in the handling characteristics of the outfit.

But of equal importance it must be understood that working to the guideline offers no guarantee of an outfit being legal or safe.

With regards to the actual load you put in the caravan, Most people under estimate the total weight of items they add to the caravan. Don't forget things like, the wheel chocks, EHU cable, water and waste containers, bedding, torches, toilet chemicals, boots and shoes, radio & gadgets, crockery & cutlery, kitchen utensils, especially food items and the little knick-knacks like the matches, pens, pencils, maps, guides, magazines, binoculars, cameras, jigsaws and games, tissues, etc etc etc. Probably more so with families than just couples, I suspect that many caravans are actually overloaded.

 

[mullsy1]

Several contributors have raised detail points that shows how inept the conventional towing ratio calculation is at representing the actual situation.

However in the absence of a more refined and realistic method being adopted by the industry, we should continue to use:-

100 x Trailer MTPLM / Car kerbweight Percentage. It is at least a consistent and unvarying procedure.

The oft quoted 85% should not be considered a hard and fast 'Target' as a few percent either way is unlikely to case a major change in the handling characteristics of the outfit.

But of equal importance it must be understood that working to the guideline offers no guarantee of an outfit being legal or safe.

With regards to the actual load you put in the caravan, Most people under estimate the total weight of items they add to the caravan. Don't forget things like, the wheel chocks, EHU cable, water and waste containers, bedding, torches, toilet chemicals, boots and shoes, radio & gadgets, crockery & cutlery, kitchen utensils, especially food items and the little knick-knacks like the matches, pens, pencils, maps, guides, magazines, binoculars, cameras, jigsaws and games, tissues, etc etc etc. Probably more so with families than just couples, I suspect that many caravans are actually overloaded.

When you weigh your odds and sods,never ceases to amaze me how much it comes to.We weigh everything

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

When you weigh your odds and sods,never ceases to amaze me how much it comes to.We weigh everything

yes and so do I, whats in the van stays in the van everything else goes in the car. the van weight is constant exept for the mud on the wheels the insects stuck on the front, and the bird poo on the roof.

if it helps the OP. the Abbey GTS is a popular van and can often be seen on sites, usually towed by Mondeo's or Passats. I know they come in different guises a weights but based purely on observation. I would think he is in the right ball park

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Thank you all for your views. Test drove a Mondeo today, a Titainium '08 at 73k miles. I must admit, I am impressed! Have to agree about the ride, very smooth yet taut and responsive. I'd like to find one with less miles on it tho' ! My '04 Golf has only 71k on it! Oh well? wish me luck.

 

[TerryIvybridge]

Ok so sold the Golf yesterday, got what I believe to be a reasonable price for it, still going to miss it tho! We've paid a small deposit on an '08 2.0 140 Titanium from one of the large car supermarkets, having selected it from many supplied photos. The car is from another branch, so we have to wait for delivery this coming week. Really hope we dont live to regret this method! So, when it arrives, apart from the obvious, is there anything in particular to look for with this model car? At 73k and full service history, I hope its a "good'un" We wont be sucked into all the extras that they would love us to buy into but the Mondeo appears to tick all our box's. I've read reviews of the Titanium and there doesn't seem to be any issues with them, so any views from fellow members would be helpful, thanks.

 

[mullsy1]

I hope you enjoy it.We've had 5 Mondeos of different variants including 2 ST24 petrols which were just great.Our current one is 9 years old and 156k just passed its MOT with no adviseries.It is the 130ps which has got loads of grunt and I see yours is the 140 so dont really see any problems.I suppose you will have to shell out for the towbar still, the new shape have really nice interiors.Enjoy