37 Bar gas with 30 Bar System

[Ian_5040591]

At the NEC I bought the BP Gas light bottle its rated at 37 Bar my Burstner is rated at 30 Bar. I did speak to Burstner at the show prior to purchase and they assured me that the 37 Bar was fine with the system and it would not effect my warrenty. Just to make sure has anyone any thoughts prior to me hooking up the bottle.

Ian

 

[Damian]

Ian, if it is propane then 37mb is right and will be ok.

If it is Butane then that is at 28mb

Both above refer to cylinder mounted regulators.

If you have a bulkhead mounted regulator on your van, to which you connect the Gaslight cylinder, then the bulkhead regulator will reduce cylinder pressure to 30mb.

 

[Ian_5040591]

no its not a bulkhead regulator .the regulator was issued with the bottle rated at 37mbar, the gas is propane.

Ian

 

[Ian_5040591]

just checked my current regulator which came with the van it is rated at 30mbar . Am I still good to use the 37mbar regulator which I got with the bottle? I dont want to do any damage to the system!

Ian

 

[GrahamSouthBrum]

I use propane in my Burstner, You should have a length of high pressure hose that conects to your fixed 30 mb reg, at the other end a conector to attach to your cylinder.

All new vans since 2004 have used this system.

G.

 

[Damian]

Ian, to try and clarify the situation for you.

Prior to 2004 all vans had cylinder mounted regulators with different pressures for Propane (37mb) and Butane (28mb).

However, either gas could be used depending on user preference and time of year using the van, propane being best suited to cold weather vanning.

In 2004 the caravan industry adopted EN1949 which standardised the pressure to appliances at 30mb through a fixed bulkhead mounted regulator in the gas locker of the van.

To change between gas, a different pigtail suitable for either Butane or Propane had to be used and takes gas at cylinder pressure to the regulator where it is reduced to 30mb.

If your van uses the old style cylinder mounted regulator with a hose to the copper inlet pipe, then the gaslight cylinder will be ok to use with the 37mb supplied regulator, just change the hose end over from the old reg to the new one and use a new stainless steel gas jubilee clip (the gas jubilee clips are smooth inside to stop chafing of the gas hose)

If your van has the fixed bulkhead regulator then you will need to source a suitable sized cylinder take off valve (the regulator supplied with the cylinder will have its size stamped on it somewhere in mm's) and a compatible pigtail to connect the cylinder to the regulator.

Due to the cylinder pressure of Propane (100psi) Jubilee clips are NOT allowed to be used to connect any part of the supply hose to the fixed regulator.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

As a gas engineer (retired) I could not legally advise you that it is safe to use a 37mB regulator on appliances designed to run on 30mB pressure.

Your appliances will have been designed to run on 30mB, and may have subtle but important differences to those rated at 37mB.

Your solution is to source either a 30mB regulator that will fit the gas light bottle, or to fit a bulkhead 30mB regulator, and source the necessary 'pig tails' to connect you bottle to the regulator.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I should also add that changes to the gas carcase such as fitting a bulkhead regulator must be carried out by a competent person working to the gas regulations.

 

[Lutz]

Isn't there some confusion here between the 37 millibars of the regulated gas system and the 30 bar test pressure of the Gaslight cylinder itself? After all, there is a difference of over 80:1 in the two figures.

 

[Damian]

Lutz, there is now!! lol.

No mention of cylinder test pressures has been made, as it is irrelevant to the topic.

The old cylinder mounted regulators on caravans were regulated to 37mB for Propane and 28mB for butane.

With the implementation of EN1949 and the installation of fixed bulkhead regulators, the pressure for both gases was set at 30mB

It is not quite clear what Ian actually has , or is, referring to in regard to what he actually has in his van, but the BPGaslight cylinder comes with a regulator of the 37mB variety, ie Propane, but his van has a limit of 30mB, which would only be the case if he has the fixed regulator, unless Burstner have a special supply of 30mB cylinder mounted regulators.

To use the BPgaslight cylinder on his van he needs to reduce the takeoff pressure to 30mB, by either sourcing a suitable sized takeoff valve and appropriate pigtail to the fixed regulator, or finding a 30mB cylinder mounted regulator which he can connect to the inlet gas pipe if he does not have a fixed regulator.

To add to the confusion, it seems Burstner have said 37mB would be ok to use anyway.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Lutz, there is now!! lol.

No mention of cylinder test pressures has been made, as it is irrelevant to the topic.

The old cylinder mounted regulators on caravans were regulated to 37mB for Propane and 28mB for butane.

With the implementation of EN1949 and the installation of fixed bulkhead regulators, the pressure for both gases was set at 30mB

It is not quite clear what Ian actually has , or is, referring to in regard to what he actually has in his van, but the BPGaslight cylinder comes with a regulator of the 37mB variety, ie Propane, but his van has a limit of 30mB, which would only be the case if he has the fixed regulator, unless Burstner have a special supply of 30mB cylinder mounted regulators.

To use the BPgaslight cylinder on his van he needs to reduce the takeoff pressure to 30mB, by either sourcing a suitable sized takeoff valve and appropriate pigtail to the fixed regulator, or finding a 30mB cylinder mounted regulator which he can connect to the inlet gas pipe if he does not have a fixed regulator.

To add to the confusion, it seems Burstner have said 37mB would be ok to use anyway.

Damian

I am guilty of not reading the Ian's headline posting properly, and I suspect you have also made the same error. He does actually write 30Bar and 37Bar.

I assumed he actually meant mB and was referring to the regulator in both cases. This actually make more sense in the context of the posting.

Ian - There is big and important difference between 30Bar and 30mBar (millibar) and just in case both Damian and I have misunderstood your posting can you please clarify.

 

[Lutz]

It was just a thought, as the Gaslight cylinders do have a 30 Bar test pressure and the title of this topic does say 37 Bar and 30 Bar, respectively.

 

[Damian]

Lutz, I am just as guilty, I have only just re read the title, and when I first read it I assumed the pressure to be in mB.

I hope I never have to work on 28Bar, 30 Bar or 37 Bar systems, mB is quite enough for me!!

 

[Ian_5040591]

Just to clarify, my current reglator is 30MBAR and it fits direct to the bottle after some research I think it may be a continental type regulator as I did buy the van whilst living in germany. I think I have been given the wrong regulator by truma at the NEC i think it was designed for a BBQ. I have seen one on the web which is rated at 28mbar which will meet my concerns unless this is to low in pressure?

 

[rob_jax]

Ian,

The heat content of Butane and Propane are different, so it was common practice to use a 28 or 30 milliBar bottle mounted regulator with Butane, and a 37 millibar regulator with Propane.

The caravan appliances were designed for use at 30 millibars with Butane gas, and the slightly higher supply pressure compensated for the slightly lower heat content in Propane.

The appliances worked correctly across this range of supply pressure. Indeed there is a not inconsiderable manufacturing tolerance on the actual supply pressure provided by a regulator (if the labels were removed you'd be hard pressed to test the difference between a 28 and 30 millibar regulator).

This practice of using different supply pressures to compensate for the different gases has stopped with the new EN1949 regulations (where a universal 30 milliBar bulkhead mounted regulator is used for both gases) but this does not apply to your caravan.

Assuming they physically fit the bottle and supply gas at the desired pressure, there is no difference between a BBQ regulator or a caravan regulator - they both do the same job

Robert

 

[Ian_5040591]

Thank you for everyones input into this matter hopefully the 28mbar clip on regulator will work.