4x4 stability

[WoodlandsCamper]

Seen the following on a South Wales website. I wonder what caused it?

A crash on the M4 westbound near Newport caused lengthy tailbacks.

The single-vehicle accident between junctions 27 and 28 involved a 4x4 towing a trailer, which jacknifed and has now blocked one lane of the carriageway.

Emergency services are in attendance and a police spokesman confirmed there were no injuries as a result of the incident.

Queuing traffic is reported to be around two miles long.

 

[Heethers]

Any car driven unsafe is unstable, why do you say it has to be a 4x4 that's unstable, if you travel up and down the M6 you see all sorts of accidents, by careless driving.

NigelH

4x4 owner

 

[Gumbo]

Don't bite Nigel we all know about stability, and some people on here don't have it LOL

Only a joke woodlands

 

[xtrailman]

Passed four cars partway up the bankside off the A1 today, wonder what caused that?

No trailer, no 4x4.

 

[ProfJohnL]

HEllo Ray,

It was probably caused by a 4x4 towing a trailer at 90mph, and the bow wave cause all the cars you saw to become unstable!!!!

:->

 

[ctj]

Well i have to say it i was part of the 4x4 nis best but haveing gone from a mondeo to a discovery i am now thinking the mondeo was more stable we towed the van ( a 22.5 ft anvondale end wash room with the mondeo no stablizer quite windy) and it felt quite stable if not lacking in power (only a 1.8 zetec) so traded it in for a disco and it was all over the place the disco is nearly twice the weight of the van i had correctly loaded etc so back to mondeo world for me!!!

 

[xtrailman]

Carl

From what owners on this site have said, the disco likes a heavy nose weight.

 

[ctj]

Ah maybe thats what it was then as id loaded it as i would with the mondeo weight in boot or over the axle it'll be whit before i can give it another go as im stuck waiting for the AA as the disco's clutch has gone pop!!! not a happy bunny 9 pardon the pun)

 

[SteveW77]

Maybe it was passed by the Ford Transit recovery truck, that passed me on the M1 on Saturday, doing over 80mph, I know becauseI was doing 80mph. The difference was I hadn't got a dolly complete with Mondeo on the back of me.

With pratts like that on the road, anything can happen.

Steve w

 

[ProfJohnL]

Maybe it was passed by the Ford Transit recovery truck, that passed me on the M1 on Saturday, doing over 80mph, I know becauseI was doing 80mph. The difference was I hadn't got a dolly complete with Mondeo on the back of me.

With pratts like that on the road, anything can happen.

Steve w

Steve W

I cannot condon ethe the tow truck with trailer in tow doing 80, mph nor can I condone your own admission of doing 80.

Can you explain why the speed limits do not apply to you?

It is drives who persist in speeding that give the Government the fodder to justify the installation of speed cameras!

 

[Peter_374392356]

Steve W

I cannot condon ethe the tow truck with trailer in tow doing 80, mph nor can I condone your own admission of doing 80.

Can you explain why the speed limits do not apply to you?

It is drives who persist in speeding that give the Government the fodder to justify the installation of speed cameras!

Just think if you were in France it would be legal (towing as well)who is right and who is wrong?

 

[SteveW77]

Maybe it was passed by the Ford Transit recovery truck, that passed me on the M1 on Saturday, doing over 80mph, I know becauseI was doing 80mph. The difference was I hadn't got a dolly complete with Mondeo on the back of me.

With pratts like that on the road, anything can happen.

Steve w

To be perfectly frank John L I don't feel the need to explain my actions to anyone. If breaking the speed limit on a virtually empty Motorway in the middle of the night in a two year old car in perfect mechanical condition is the worst thing I do in my life, then I will settle for that.

Steve W

 

[xtrailman]

To be perfectly frank John L I don't feel the need to explain my actions to anyone. If breaking the speed limit on a virtually empty Motorway in the middle of the night in a two year old car in perfect mechanical condition is the worst thing I do in my life, then I will settle for that.

Steve W

Well said steve.

When i do 80mph, i am quite happy to let everyone else, pass at 90mph.

A leading policeman on TV stated the police would not prosecute, motorises not exceeding 80mph.

 

[xtrailman]

Well said steve.

When i do 80mph, i am quite happy to let everyone else, pass at 90mph.

A leading policeman on TV stated the police would not prosecute, motorises not exceeding 80mph.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Poorly said Steve and Ray!

Speeding is never justified even on empty roads. The law applies to you as it does to every one else. Don't cry when it catches you out.

The stability of a vehicle decreases with increasing speed. It is up to the driver to adapt to the driving conditions (including speed limits) to ensure the vehicle remains under full control.

And as for towing, it is quite strange that some people will religiously keep caravan weights and nose loads to 85 and 7% respectively even when there is no technical or legal requirement, yet will happily boast about exceeding legally enforced speed limits!

!!!!

 

[Lutz]

I appreciate your attitude, John L, but one must diffentiate between what the law says and what is technically safe, and there can be a big difference. Obviously, as you say, one has no right to complain if one is caught, but that does not mean that under appropriate traffic conditions, higher speeds than legally allowed would necessarily be unsafe. Motorways in the UK aren't that much different to those on the Continent so there really is no reason why one should less able to drive safely at speeds well in excess of 70mph, as is legally possible in de-restricted Germany.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I appreciate your attitude, John L, but one must diffentiate between what the law says and what is technically safe, and there can be a big difference. Obviously, as you say, one has no right to complain if one is caught, but that does not mean that under appropriate traffic conditions, higher speeds than legally allowed would necessarily be unsafe. Motorways in the UK aren't that much different to those on the Continent so there really is no reason why one should less able to drive safely at speeds well in excess of 70mph, as is legally possible in de-restricted Germany.

Hello Lutz,

I don't think I said that travelling faster than a speed limit made a vehicle unsafe.

Clearly even here in the UK some roads are restricted to 20mph and most domestic cars would easily be able to exceed this and yet remain stable.

 

[Lutz]

I appreciate your attitude, John L, but one must diffentiate between what the law says and what is technically safe, and there can be a big difference. Obviously, as you say, one has no right to complain if one is caught, but that does not mean that under appropriate traffic conditions, higher speeds than legally allowed would necessarily be unsafe. Motorways in the UK aren't that much different to those on the Continent so there really is no reason why one should less able to drive safely at speeds well in excess of 70mph, as is legally possible in de-restricted Germany.

Where speed limits less than 70mph are specified, then these are generally because of expected traffic conditions that would not safely allow more than 20mph, 30mph, or as the case may be. That applies not only to the UK but also here in Germany.

But why is there a speed limit at all when the road is more or less straight and no chance involvement with any other road user, e.g. a deserted motorway? The only explanation that stands up to scrutiny is on environmental grounds, (less emissions at lower speeds). This has always been the argument of environmental groups here in Germany who have, so far unsucessfully, tried to get an overall speed limit introduced. Nobody has ever been able to produce data that proves accident rates would significantly be improved if we had such a speed limit.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I appreciate your attitude, John L, but one must diffentiate between what the law says and what is technically safe, and there can be a big difference. Obviously, as you say, one has no right to complain if one is caught, but that does not mean that under appropriate traffic conditions, higher speeds than legally allowed would necessarily be unsafe. Motorways in the UK aren't that much different to those on the Continent so there really is no reason why one should less able to drive safely at speeds well in excess of 70mph, as is legally possible in de-restricted Germany.

Hello Lutz,

I agree with your points, but just to be clear, my side thrust has been about speeding, not speed.

The fact is that in the UK there is a speed limit on every public road, and whether the limit is technically justified or not, it is legally enforceable. I would also like to think that we live in a civilised society where everyone accepts that we need to moderate some of our actions in consideration of society as a whole. Clearly this view is not shared by everyone.

If we accept there is a need for laws to help define what is socially acceptable, you cannot pick and choose which ones to follow and simple ignore those that don't suit your wishes.

If you believe a law is unfair or wrong, then there are ways to raise your concerns and if a change is found to be necessary it may be changed. But until it is either changed or repealed it stands and we are all bound to accept and keep within it.

 

[SteveW77]

Hello Lutz,

I agree with your points, but just to be clear, my side thrust has been about speeding, not speed.

The fact is that in the UK there is a speed limit on every public road, and whether the limit is technically justified or not, it is legally enforceable. I would also like to think that we live in a civilised society where everyone accepts that we need to moderate some of our actions in consideration of society as a whole. Clearly this view is not shared by everyone.

If we accept there is a need for laws to help define what is socially acceptable, you cannot pick and choose which ones to follow and simple ignore those that don't suit your wishes.

If you believe a law is unfair or wrong, then there are ways to raise your concerns and if a change is found to be necessary it may be changed. But until it is either changed or repealed it stands and we are all bound to accept and keep within it.

If you could post your full details, i will put your name forward for concideration for sainthood, as you must be the only person in the country who has never broken the law, or are we being a bit of a hypocrite?

Steve W

 

[ShadySadie]

Well this 4x4 looks pretty stable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5155424/Nissan-ends-up-on-police-car-after-chase.html

 

[Lutz]

Judging by the damage to the police car, the Nissan was more or less stationary when the accident happened and the police car underrode the Nissan. Seems like the police driver forgot where the brake pedal is.

 

[MikeA]

Apparently it was the other way round Lutz. According to Welsh TV news, the police car was stopped (or almost stopped) when the Nissan they were chasing (and which by the looks of it, from pictures taken at another angle, was blocked from going forward) reversed back over the police car. The occupants of the Nissan have been taken into custardy. The BBC Wales website carries a report including this -

"A scrap metal dealer has been remanded in custody after reversing his vehicle onto a police car in Swansea.

Martin Richard Davies, 28, faces five charges, including attempting to inflict grievous bodily harm on Pc Greg Parry, following Tuesday's incident.

He also faces charges of driving with excess alcohol, dangerous driving and driving whilst disqualified. "

Cheers

Mike A

 

[xtrailman]

That pic, would make a good advert poster for nissan.

It could read something like this "Nissan, always on top"