The Banks have lost the 37BN we the tax payer have just lent them the 6 O clock news has just said. How the bloody hell do you loose 37BN.
6pm BBC News
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Damian
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Stephen
I won't be greedy 37Billion would a challange, but if you'd like to stump up 37k I could demonstrate how to waste a small fortune, reckon 4 hrs should be long enough. Maybe I should get a job in a bank.
Come on though fairs fair, they need to stash this away to pay the shareholders a dividend, and pay thier Senior Financial Analysts(SFA)a bonus in May.
SFA is as much as I'd give em.
Seriously though, I realy do hope the government, now as owners, are putting a stop to the massive pay, bonuses and any bank share dividends. Maybe they should look at clawing back some of that paid out in recent year as clearly the bonuses were payed to people bankrupting the bank and the country so were earned under false pretenses.
I won't be greedy 37Billion would a challange, but if you'd like to stump up 37k I could demonstrate how to waste a small fortune, reckon 4 hrs should be long enough. Maybe I should get a job in a bank.
Come on though fairs fair, they need to stash this away to pay the shareholders a dividend, and pay thier Senior Financial Analysts(SFA)a bonus in May.
SFA is as much as I'd give em.
Seriously though, I realy do hope the government, now as owners, are putting a stop to the massive pay, bonuses and any bank share dividends. Maybe they should look at clawing back some of that paid out in recent year as clearly the bonuses were payed to people bankrupting the bank and the country so were earned under false pretenses.
I heard on the radio that the Royal bank of Scotland is the worst bank in the world as having given a Russian
Borrowed from another web site,This is how to get rid of billions !!!!!!!!
Once upon a time a man appeared in a village and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort.
He next announced that he would now buy monkeys at $20 each. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce it was an effort to even find a monkey, let alone catch it!
The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50 each! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would buy on his behalf. In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers: "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has already collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each."
The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys for 700 billion dollars. They never saw the man or his assistant again, only lots and lots of monkeys! Now you have a better understanding of how the Wall Street bailout plan will work!
Once upon a time a man appeared in a village and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort.
He next announced that he would now buy monkeys at $20 each. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce it was an effort to even find a monkey, let alone catch it!
The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50 each! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would buy on his behalf. In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers: "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has already collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each."
The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys for 700 billion dollars. They never saw the man or his assistant again, only lots and lots of monkeys! Now you have a better understanding of how the Wall Street bailout plan will work!
Possibly a little bit of clarity would not go amiss here.
As you all recall when Messrs Broon and Darling offered the money in October they insisted on being repaid at 12% interest as a priority, which the banks have been doing. Now Broon and Darling have recognised that this was maybe not the smartest move and have now reduced it to a more realistic 5% and changed the Preference shares to Ordinary Shares. Northern Rock has been hellbent on repaying money to HMG to such an extent it has stopped all lending and asked its mortgage holders to go elsehwere. That is a great way to get lending moving again
RBS is about to post the largest corporate loss in UK history and yes, that is a matter of concern. However over 20 billion of the 28 billion loss is from ABN/AMRO and the loans that Bank gave out before it was bought by RBS. Yes, RBS should have done due diligence and I suspect they did, and were assured by auditors that the loan book of ABN/AMRO was all in accordance with accounting practice AT THAT TIME. Now it is not. Exclude that and the loss is a mere 7 billion, small potatoes in the current climate and compared with what the Bank assets were worth just a few months ago. In addition they also made a 600 million profit on all their UK operations. So is this a busted flush Company?
I would also point out that not all shareholders are large Corporations or fat cats. I am a small one myself and yes, my wife and I have lost a lot of money. Many older poeple here in Scotland had their savings invested in both RBS and the old BOS ( before it lost its way and joined Halifax) as they trusted these institutions. After all these were 2 of the oldest Banks in the UK. Also many of the shareholders are employees who purchased their shares through stock option plans and these were often the 'bonuses' they received. Now they are worthless. So do not be so critical of people who have worked hard and supported their employers the best way they could. The combined workforce of Lloyds/HBOS for example is 140000 people. They are certainly not all at the top. Throw them all on the street and then think what will happen to all of us. Also do remember that all Pension Funds have invested in these same Banks, and many pensioners will now feel the result in a reduced pension in their old age. The share price is much more than a tool for fat cats to win.
Yes, the management have made some foolhardy decisions, but again if these decisions were based on information received that was valid at the time, then hindsight is a wonderful excuse. Broon should know considering the wolefully bad decisions he has made over the last 10 years that he has virtually bankrupted the country even before this mess came about. He made the situation even worse by changing all the regulatory bodies and encouraging a 'spend spend' Policy to make himself look good.
So please consider things more openly. Yes, I would like to see certain individuals face a Court of Law, but what would you charge them with? Malpractice? If they then produced evidence to show they followed the rules of the Government, and respected auditors, and the legal advice provided, then what? If they did not, then throw the 'book' at them but it is noticeable that there has been no movement in that direction from HMG. I wonder why?
As you all recall when Messrs Broon and Darling offered the money in October they insisted on being repaid at 12% interest as a priority, which the banks have been doing. Now Broon and Darling have recognised that this was maybe not the smartest move and have now reduced it to a more realistic 5% and changed the Preference shares to Ordinary Shares. Northern Rock has been hellbent on repaying money to HMG to such an extent it has stopped all lending and asked its mortgage holders to go elsehwere. That is a great way to get lending moving again
RBS is about to post the largest corporate loss in UK history and yes, that is a matter of concern. However over 20 billion of the 28 billion loss is from ABN/AMRO and the loans that Bank gave out before it was bought by RBS. Yes, RBS should have done due diligence and I suspect they did, and were assured by auditors that the loan book of ABN/AMRO was all in accordance with accounting practice AT THAT TIME. Now it is not. Exclude that and the loss is a mere 7 billion, small potatoes in the current climate and compared with what the Bank assets were worth just a few months ago. In addition they also made a 600 million profit on all their UK operations. So is this a busted flush Company?
I would also point out that not all shareholders are large Corporations or fat cats. I am a small one myself and yes, my wife and I have lost a lot of money. Many older poeple here in Scotland had their savings invested in both RBS and the old BOS ( before it lost its way and joined Halifax) as they trusted these institutions. After all these were 2 of the oldest Banks in the UK. Also many of the shareholders are employees who purchased their shares through stock option plans and these were often the 'bonuses' they received. Now they are worthless. So do not be so critical of people who have worked hard and supported their employers the best way they could. The combined workforce of Lloyds/HBOS for example is 140000 people. They are certainly not all at the top. Throw them all on the street and then think what will happen to all of us. Also do remember that all Pension Funds have invested in these same Banks, and many pensioners will now feel the result in a reduced pension in their old age. The share price is much more than a tool for fat cats to win.
Yes, the management have made some foolhardy decisions, but again if these decisions were based on information received that was valid at the time, then hindsight is a wonderful excuse. Broon should know considering the wolefully bad decisions he has made over the last 10 years that he has virtually bankrupted the country even before this mess came about. He made the situation even worse by changing all the regulatory bodies and encouraging a 'spend spend' Policy to make himself look good.
So please consider things more openly. Yes, I would like to see certain individuals face a Court of Law, but what would you charge them with? Malpractice? If they then produced evidence to show they followed the rules of the Government, and respected auditors, and the legal advice provided, then what? If they did not, then throw the 'book' at them but it is noticeable that there has been no movement in that direction from HMG. I wonder why?
My mum had some of her money in shares in the Bradford and Bingley Building Society (as was) - then the bank whatever it called itself - and left those shares to my two sons and her other niece and nephew when she died. OK it wouldn't have been a life-changing amount for them, but with the delays and other problems, by the time the ownership was changed the shares were completely worthless. She would have been horrified to know that her legacy was not worth the paper it was written on.
I suspect that she, and her like (the smaller shareholders, not the company fat cats) are the ones who really lose everything at times like these.
I suspect that she, and her like (the smaller shareholders, not the company fat cats) are the ones who really lose everything at times like these.
It is symptom of the financial system that has been allowed to evolve that financiers have compounded debt upon debt, by lending on the basis that projected income will accrue enough value in the future to service loans, rather than only using the funds available at the time.
It is a failure of regulatory system that was supposed to protect the markets.
What is worse is that the people who have devised all these 'Futures' scams and who have stolen our money are still employed and probably being paid mind boggling sums of money despite being proven incompetent. they are thieves, and should be treated as such.
It is a failure of regulatory system that was supposed to protect the markets.
What is worse is that the people who have devised all these 'Futures' scams and who have stolen our money are still employed and probably being paid mind boggling sums of money despite being proven incompetent. they are thieves, and should be treated as such.
No seriosly though there does not seem any audit trail. Nobody has even asked where has it all gone and its not 37k its 37 BILLION and another 50 Billion yesterday just handed out to these bloody Banker,s. Ow yes the banker are still giving themself big bonus pay out,s WHY? just look on the web.
RANT OVER.
RANT OVER.
I agree whole heartedly with Val.A and John L.
I suspect that these senior people my try to hide behind 'The regulation at the time permiited it'. But when these people earn disgusting amounts in pay and bonuses I beleive they are obligated to act with common sense and prudence and get the job 100% right.
As far as small investors in shares are concerned:-
A friend who is a retired bank manager said to me a few years back, if you receive shares through company schemes or by windfall you should cash them in as soon as possible. You know virtually nothing about the stock market so why try to play it.
Just his personal opinion but very wise words in hindsight.
I suspect that these senior people my try to hide behind 'The regulation at the time permiited it'. But when these people earn disgusting amounts in pay and bonuses I beleive they are obligated to act with common sense and prudence and get the job 100% right.
As far as small investors in shares are concerned:-
A friend who is a retired bank manager said to me a few years back, if you receive shares through company schemes or by windfall you should cash them in as soon as possible. You know virtually nothing about the stock market so why try to play it.
Just his personal opinion but very wise words in hindsight.
" A friend who is a retired bank manager said to me a few years back, if you receive shares through company schemes or by windfall you should cash them in as soon as possible. You know virtually nothing about the stock market so why try to play it "
Excellent advice.
Excellent advice.
John's point sounds rather similar to the housing 'boom' where people borrowed against ever rising house prices, without ever wondering whether the valuations were correct, or more importantly, sustainable.
You really have to ask who should be in prison for this latest scandal.
How do they get away with it? Sickens me but what can we poor caravanners do?
Relax and go on holiday with whatever you have left!!
Cheers
Alan
How do they get away with it? Sickens me but what can we poor caravanners do?
Relax and go on holiday with whatever you have left!!
Cheers
Alan
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