I feel really sorry for all those kids recieving their A level results today.The realisation of all that hard studying and lack of uni places really isnt worth the paper those precious "A's" are written on! Welcome to the real world kids.....and the dole queque!!
A levels.....are they really of any value?
- Thread starter LadyC
- Start date
as an employer i have seen educational standards falling over the last few years. With the GCSE's no fail system it has becomne almost impossible to judge a candidates literacy and numeracy skills. CVs show " 10 GCSe's " with all the subjects listed but the norm is not show the actual grades.
I believe one of the Gcse's that can be taken is in "Citizenship", or how to be socially acceptable....
Usually you can tell by the grandma nd sppelin in the coverin leter.
Are A levels worthless ?, possibly as University have latched on the biggest money making scheme in the last 15 years. They now have some ridiculous courses , and take on students that should really be working in MaccyDees.
My wife works in a Comp, and towards the year end many student who are struggling have their courses switched to ones that counnt as 2 or more gcse's , wiht the school itself rated onthe level and number of gcse's taken. Its a farce, its about time we got back to quality and not quantity.
I believe one of the Gcse's that can be taken is in "Citizenship", or how to be socially acceptable....
Usually you can tell by the grandma nd sppelin in the coverin leter.
Are A levels worthless ?, possibly as University have latched on the biggest money making scheme in the last 15 years. They now have some ridiculous courses , and take on students that should really be working in MaccyDees.
My wife works in a Comp, and towards the year end many student who are struggling have their courses switched to ones that counnt as 2 or more gcse's , wiht the school itself rated onthe level and number of gcse's taken. Its a farce, its about time we got back to quality and not quantity.
If there is a genuine unfairness in students not getting a place at University, and I don't mean subjects that used to be covered at colleges or subjects created by the last government to doctor the figures, then they should reduce the number of foreign students where the numbers have rocketed in recent years.
Priceless! People commenting on student's spelling when they can't spell properly themselves - and 'an employer' too. LOL!!! Love it.
LMH said:
If you're commenting on Philspadders' post, the way I read it was that the line where he says about grammar and spelling in a CV's covering letter was an ironic, tongue in cheek, deliberately misspelled one. I don't see any other spelling errors in his post......one or two typing mistakes, maybe - but then we can't all be word-perfect typists, can we?
LMH said:
Somehow I think ' grandma nd sppelin in the coverin leter ' was intentional to make his point.
As I said.....possibly typing errors, not spelling mistakes. Or is he accountable for his typing ability too? Does it matter how we type and spell, so long as we can get our points across?
Phil - no offence intended, particularly as you gave me some good advice on the tv remote thread.
Lisa
Lisa
Parksy
Moderator
- Nov 12, 2009
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The topic under discussion was the value of A levels.
Spelling, typo's or grammatical errors are of no consequence on a caravan forum and people with dyslexia are more than welcome to post on here as is the world's worst typist (me).
Life's too short to fall out about stuff like this.
Spelling, typo's or grammatical errors are of no consequence on a caravan forum and people with dyslexia are more than welcome to post on here as is the world's worst typist (me).
Life's too short to fall out about stuff like this.
LMH said:
For a pennance go sit in the corner and write out 100 lines 'I must not be rude to Spadders. After that go gargle in Holy Maids water and say ten 'Hail Windyship's'.
sori abot dat, me tiepin aint wot it were.
i tend to type faster than then screen will load up and certainly faster than the forum can load it. In other words, the refresh on my screen results in typographical errors, that and beng left handed and partially dyslexic, but being left handed does make me slightly more intelligent than most right handers.
I have reseeved job applekayshun letters where the applicant clearly can not write clearly, legibly or accurately.
i tend to type faster than then screen will load up and certainly faster than the forum can load it. In other words, the refresh on my screen results in typographical errors, that and beng left handed and partially dyslexic, but being left handed does make me slightly more intelligent than most right handers.
I have reseeved job applekayshun letters where the applicant clearly can not write clearly, legibly or accurately.
Having retired from further education I will agree that the standard of education has dropped drastically. As far as "A" levels are concerned the schools are competing with further education establishments for students as they are both funded by "bums on seats". "A" Levels are more suitable for a student who has not as yet made a definate career decision - it leaves the path open for alternative career routes. If a definate career choice has been made then the student is better off, having achieved GCSE passes, in enrolling on a Btec National Diploma course at an FE college. A good grade at the end of the two years of study will give access to higher education degree courses and the first year will be quite light compared to the "A" level route as numourous modules would have already been studied and attained on the diploma.
We were instructed by the powers that be at Edexcel to only mark student work on technical content and to ignore Enlish Grammar and spelling. My colleagues and I ignored these instructions as the student was studying on a professional course to enter industry in a professional capacity in Building & Civil Engineering. I will hold my hand up and admit that in my 25 years in education I referred to the dictionary more frequently as time progressed as marking student's work made me think had they misspelt the word or not. Thank God for early retirement LOL
We were instructed by the powers that be at Edexcel to only mark student work on technical content and to ignore Enlish Grammar and spelling. My colleagues and I ignored these instructions as the student was studying on a professional course to enter industry in a professional capacity in Building & Civil Engineering. I will hold my hand up and admit that in my 25 years in education I referred to the dictionary more frequently as time progressed as marking student's work made me think had they misspelt the word or not. Thank God for early retirement LOL
the problem we have as employers is the value of the gcse passes. Just gaining a grade appears to be a pass these days , so even its an F its classed as a pass.
In the good old days ( or were they?) we took A, O and CSE , each having A,B,C,D,E,U, with ABC being regarded as a pass and in the case of a CSE grade a , this was taken as an O level grade C. Employers had a much better idea of the candidates ability.
We seem to have got ourselves into a situation where schools no longer allower competition and we have a no fail culture. My
wifes school is a Sports College with a fantastic MUGA, All weather surfaces, tennis, Swimming , Running etc, but at the school games , they all went to the English Institue of Sport ( im in Sheffield) and had bean bag throwing competitions and other such games. These students range in age from 13 to 16yrs.
This is no way to prepare them for the competition for jobs and FE places that they are going to face.
When i was at school the school games consisted of all the major discipines in track and field events, javelin, discuss, 100m, 200m ,400m, 1500m plus hurdles and relays. Long jump, high jump etc.
I was good at some and totally rubbish at others. I was a very good swimmer and did so for the county , but was awful at other disciplines but sill took part. Some we win , some we lose, but our education system seems to be hell bent on driving out the competitve side of our lives.
In the good old days ( or were they?) we took A, O and CSE , each having A,B,C,D,E,U, with ABC being regarded as a pass and in the case of a CSE grade a , this was taken as an O level grade C. Employers had a much better idea of the candidates ability.
We seem to have got ourselves into a situation where schools no longer allower competition and we have a no fail culture. My
wifes school is a Sports College with a fantastic MUGA, All weather surfaces, tennis, Swimming , Running etc, but at the school games , they all went to the English Institue of Sport ( im in Sheffield) and had bean bag throwing competitions and other such games. These students range in age from 13 to 16yrs.
This is no way to prepare them for the competition for jobs and FE places that they are going to face.
When i was at school the school games consisted of all the major discipines in track and field events, javelin, discuss, 100m, 200m ,400m, 1500m plus hurdles and relays. Long jump, high jump etc.
I was good at some and totally rubbish at others. I was a very good swimmer and did so for the county , but was awful at other disciplines but sill took part. Some we win , some we lose, but our education system seems to be hell bent on driving out the competitve side of our lives.
- Jun 20, 2005
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I understand the two year course work goes towards the A level marks unlike in my day where you sat two 3 hour exams. I appreciate some people have exam nerves but imo the whole A level system has been devalued since I did mine.
My neice has just finished her degree at Queens Belfast. She was hardly ever there, always flying home to Manchester for weeks on end. She passed and got her BA . Too easy.
My neice has just finished her degree at Queens Belfast. She was hardly ever there, always flying home to Manchester for weeks on end. She passed and got her BA . Too easy.
Retired now - but as someone who interviewed many students the standards have dropped. This trend of having all coursework or 80% coursework qualifications is a laugh. I personally know of people who had their work corrected, modified and checked by friends of their parents before it was handed in. This made their qualifications a sham. Most employers put major emphasis on the interview and even written test where such cheating cannot take place. Our education system has gone to the dogs!
I agree that the standards of exams has fallen over the years and it is too easy now (by our ancient standards) to get an "A" grade. With the amount thats getting top grades,I cannot help feeling that the rise in pass rates over the years is greatly politically influenced.It seems to me that it is better for government figures and image, to have these teenagers going to uni on what ever daft course someone dreamed up,rather than on the dole.Most of these kids will end up on job seekers 3 to 5 years down the line anyway.Lowering the pass rate standard to allow uni entry, is just a delaying government tactic to keep dole figures down and belittles the education system and devalues the worth of exams.
I am extremly well qualified to be an 'old f*rt' but cannot resist my two pennyworth. (For younger readers, this is a pre-decimal term)
For just on 50 years I have been a professional Engineer and I use E deliberately. For many years to achieve Chartered Engineer status you had to have a 2.1 (minimum )degree on an approved engineering degree course, an approved structured training programme, some years of experience, and a position of some responsibility. 'Approved' means just that by one of the several Chartered Engineering institutions.
Today, the standard of degrees has declined such that a 4 year Masters Degree is the general requirement.
The earlier system also had a 'ladders and bridges' system such that those of us how came up the ONC/HNC route could transfer given all other requirements satisfied. this route was based on the Polytechnics which have virtually all changed into 'Universities'. In my main employment positions I was responsible for the graduate engineering programmes for a major UK pharmaceutical company and and major UK nuclear company; in the early years of both the problem was deciding how to reduce the applicants to a short list. in the later years, the problem was to get a short list of more than one or two, mainly on the grounds that either i couldn't read ther applications or that they had totally ignored the guidelines for completion.
In these later years a very interesting feature was that the applications from young lady engineers where much more readable and tidy than those from their male equivalents, to the extent that one of my (few) claims to fame is that I once employed over half the professionally qualifed C&I female engineers in the country !
So my basic solutions are:
Recognise a structured qualification policy - that not everyone needs to have a 'degree' and that virtually all work is a team structure and that all members of the team have due importance.
Set a target for (proper) degrees at about 20% of the population but ensure anyone with the ability can get one regardless of background or wealth.
Re-introduce combination throery/practical qualifications e.g ONC HNC City and Guilds instead of the mess which was called NVQ. Ensure there are ladders and bridges to allow the most able to convert to degree level.
Reintroduce incentives for on the job training i.e. various grades of apprenticeship.
Recognise technology along with other professions as they do in Europe; in this country we do this half heartedly and under the counter - for example I can sign passport applications and instruct a barrister directly (as can the other professional doctors, accountants etc.) but no-one recognises Eur Eng as a title whereas in Europe Dip Eng or Ing rank with Dr. and even in USA many States require someone of PE or RE standing to sign off safety-critical documents.
Enough of my hobby horse - now onto the serious business of booking my ferry for Spain late December.
For just on 50 years I have been a professional Engineer and I use E deliberately. For many years to achieve Chartered Engineer status you had to have a 2.1 (minimum )degree on an approved engineering degree course, an approved structured training programme, some years of experience, and a position of some responsibility. 'Approved' means just that by one of the several Chartered Engineering institutions.
Today, the standard of degrees has declined such that a 4 year Masters Degree is the general requirement.
The earlier system also had a 'ladders and bridges' system such that those of us how came up the ONC/HNC route could transfer given all other requirements satisfied. this route was based on the Polytechnics which have virtually all changed into 'Universities'. In my main employment positions I was responsible for the graduate engineering programmes for a major UK pharmaceutical company and and major UK nuclear company; in the early years of both the problem was deciding how to reduce the applicants to a short list. in the later years, the problem was to get a short list of more than one or two, mainly on the grounds that either i couldn't read ther applications or that they had totally ignored the guidelines for completion.
In these later years a very interesting feature was that the applications from young lady engineers where much more readable and tidy than those from their male equivalents, to the extent that one of my (few) claims to fame is that I once employed over half the professionally qualifed C&I female engineers in the country !
So my basic solutions are:
Recognise a structured qualification policy - that not everyone needs to have a 'degree' and that virtually all work is a team structure and that all members of the team have due importance.
Set a target for (proper) degrees at about 20% of the population but ensure anyone with the ability can get one regardless of background or wealth.
Re-introduce combination throery/practical qualifications e.g ONC HNC City and Guilds instead of the mess which was called NVQ. Ensure there are ladders and bridges to allow the most able to convert to degree level.
Reintroduce incentives for on the job training i.e. various grades of apprenticeship.
Recognise technology along with other professions as they do in Europe; in this country we do this half heartedly and under the counter - for example I can sign passport applications and instruct a barrister directly (as can the other professional doctors, accountants etc.) but no-one recognises Eur Eng as a title whereas in Europe Dip Eng or Ing rank with Dr. and even in USA many States require someone of PE or RE standing to sign off safety-critical documents.
Enough of my hobby horse - now onto the serious business of booking my ferry for Spain late December.
Hi Ray - It is still possible to study on an ONC/HNC course. NVQs were introduced to replace the City & Guilds courses more on the practical routes such as trades. GNVQs were introduced to replace the ONC/HNC professional courses. Whereas NVQs got off the ground on the practical courses the GNVQs did not. The course of study which replaced the ONC/HNC of "our" days is the Edexel Btec courses which resulted in achieving either an ONC/OND or HNC/HND depending whether one was a day release or full time student. To achieve an ONC requires the studying and passing of 10 modules over two years, whilst an OND rquires 16 modules to be achieved over the two year period. The results are based on phase tests/assignments at the end of topic areas and with some modules end of unit exam.
Having said all this I am now retired and out of it (thank goodness) and wish you a jolly good holiday in December - just one thing - don't get drunk LOL
Having said all this I am now retired and out of it (thank goodness) and wish you a jolly good holiday in December - just one thing - don't get drunk LOL
Im very much inclined to believe that the percieved drop in standards {A levels/ Gse passes}is purely down to money..No school is willing to addmit failure , It could effect their intake,Intake= money.Universities will always take as many foreign students.as they can get, Once again money.As for silly corses,It is the so called academic element that invent them ,why ??money.Like it or not we live in a society that is governed by the quest for money above everything.Will things change?Doubtful..
A lot of firms rely to much on exams , and not on the inititave of the person , after all Richard Branson left school with no exams ,also Peter Waterman the pop presenter , couldnt read or write
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