accident on A14 on sunday

[FrintonMike]

sorry if I ramble but I am still in a state of shock

Apologies to any one caught up in the tail backs whilst the air ambulance landed next to the A14

I had just slowed from 60 to 50 to turn into the Cambridge Service area when the offside tyre blew sending the car and caravan off the road into the trees. Both car and caravan are a total loss

Lucky for me the car was a Volvo Estate so that although it ended up on it's side we only had bruises

Before setting off I had checked the nose weight and made sure that all the heavy items were over the axle and nothing was in the top cupboards. The tyres were checked in March when the caravan was serviced. We were not overloaded but despite all these precautions the accident still happened.

I felt a slight bump just before the accident so can only assume that something in the road damaged the tyre. Next caravan will have tyron bands.

The Cambridgeshire emergency services and the highway agency were brilliant and I cannot praise them enough.

Yesterday we started to look around the caravan dealers in North Essex and South Suffolk for a replacement caravan looking to spend about 10k but the dealers had almost no stock.

Homestead Caravan at Weeley told us that they cannot get enough stock and as soon as a caravan comes in it is sold. They have a waiting list of people who want certain layouts and will contact them when one comes into stock. So it looks as if we may be sometime before we get a replacement

Is this common over the country ?

 

[dixie1]

Hi Michael

I can,t answer your query re stock levels for caravans, but I would just like to say that I am very sorry to hear of your accident and the loss of your outfit, you are very lucky to still be here.

We have tyron safety bands on our caravan and would hope that in a situation like yours they would help us come to a safe stop.

I do hope you manage to get fixed up with another caravan before too long.

Carmen.

 

[Guest]

I am sorry to hear of your accident and am very pleased that no one was hurt.

Just out of interest did any examination of what was left of the blown tyre occur, and if so, did any conclusions come about? For instance did the tyre disintegrate, or just blow due to penetration by a sharp object? It is possible the tyre had just reached the point in life where it gave up, but fortunately that does not happen too often. If, however, it was due to something on the road, and you do mention a 'bump' then that would be a different matter.

I also don't want to be 'picky' but you did mention you were doing 60 mph. Is the A14 a motorway? I gather that it is not the safest road in the UK and is due to be upgraded. I am sure it would not have made any difference to the outcome but??

 

[Icemaker]

im not sure whether the a14 is a single or dual carriageway but the law states that; When towing a trailer you are restricted to 60mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 50mph on other roads provided, of course, that lower limits are not in operation.

however speed would have had nothing to do with this incident as the road surface and tyre condition would be the same where ever you travel.

so glad that everyone escaped with minor injuries, we have tyrons fitted after my father had a blow out and was able to drive nearly ten miles without knowing he had a flat tyre untill a lorry driver brought his attention to it, some on here will object strongly claiming that tyrons have never been proven but i would rather be safe than sorry especially concidering the relative low cost of tyrons.

 

[Gumbo]

Michael so pleased to hear you are all OK, and that you are looking for another van after your blow out.

Michael just a couple of questions which in no way is meant to infer any crticism what so ever.

Was the Van a Single Axle or Twin ?

Did it have alko ATC ?

If you have time to answer thanks, and once again glad your still up to towing well done.

 

[everton1]

Hi,

The A14 is dual carriage and 70mph & average speed cameras on

that stretch.Its not the best of roads,its always on the traffic reports.It is planed tobe upgraded etc but it won't

be for a while yet.

Regards,

FrankE.

 

[Lutz]

Michael, sorry to hear of your accident but I am a bit surprised that a blowout should have caused such devastation. You say 'the offside tyre blew' so am I correct in assuming that you are referring to the caravan and because you are talking in the singular, it was a single axle. I also assume that the A14 was relative straight when it happened.

I had a very similar incident on the motorway last year, but apart from a big bang and smoke coming out of the wheel arches after the burst tyre caught fire, the outfit remained absolutely steady (although I was towing at close to 100% weight ratio).

Despite my experience, I wouldn't think of having Tyron bands fitted as no-one has yet been able to prove to me that the consequences in the event of a blowout would be any less than without them. All their advertising shows is how well the outfit reacts with Tyron bands, but not how much worse it would have been without. Without such proof how can I judge whether they are worth their money?

 

[xtrailman]

just to add my own experience re tyre puncture.

When i had a slow puncture, i was totally unaware!

It was a windy day so i was down to around 50mph, the caravan appeared to be getting more and more unstable, so i eventually dropped speed down to 40mph.

At this stage i was looking for the first exit, the wind was getting really strong and was blowing left to right across the A1.

A white van man passed making wild gestures along the lines of you f,,,ing tosser, while pointing to the caravan!

At this stage i had no choice, but to pull over immediately.

My point is, as with some cars, it is very difficult to detect a slow flat tyre, the tyre was well down and still on the rim.

But i had no idea that i had a punture.

So i am not convinced along with Lutz that tyrons are the answer. Maybe run flat tyres?

I then had the pleasure of changing a tyre, on the offside of the van, with the van as far over from the road as possible, in gale force winds, with lorries passing a few yards away.

A very frightening experience!

But that's another story.

 

[FrintonMike]

Thank you for all of you kind messages

It was the offside tyre on the caravan that blew according to the witness'

The road was straight and is a dual carrageway and I had already taken my foot away from the accelerator ready to pull into the service area.

I never go over the spead limit because my wife watches the speedometer like a hawk.

to progress I now need to buy a new tow car and have looked at a Volvo V70 2.4 2002 and a Ford Galaxy 2.3 2003. Does anyone know which is the best tow car ? Both will tow caravans that I am considering within the 85% recommendation

 

[Surfer]

No question there at all as the V70 is the obvious answer. Will yoiur budget stretch to the V70 Cross Country which would be even better.

We have Tyron bands and have always had them on all our caravans and will not be without them. I do not want to prove a point either but if the military use them, that is good enough for me!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Michael,

First and foremost I am glad that despite the incident, no one was seriously hurt, and that you are actively looking to replace both the car and the caravan.

Your chosen models of car are quite diverse, and perhaps you need to consider some pro's and cons.

One of the most important features of a car from a caravanner's perspective is if the car is capable of towing the chosen caravan. In your case both the V70 2.4 (2002) and the Galaxy 2.3 (2003) seem to be rated at 1800Kg, however the Galaxy is slightly heavier so the 85% guideline figures is around 1350Kg (V70) and little over 1400Kg (Galaxy) the exact figure depends on the specific model variants.

Apart from issues with clutch burn out when reversing, I am not aware of any significant general failings of either as tow cars.

I have a friend who runs a 2.3 Galaxy (not as a tow car) and they are disappointed with the fuel consumption, which seem to be in the high 20's around town and only gets up to mid 30's on a run. The cabin fittings have not worn particularly well with chromed plastic parts showing the plastic, and fabric looking shabby. But on the plus side, the large cabin is airy and the higher seating does give a good view out and around. The driving position is comparatively upright, but some prefer that to being almost supine.

My brother-in-law ran a V70 AWD for a while, and he rated it quite highly until the transfer box failed. - but this should not be a problem with your choice. The interior was darker than the Galaxy but probably better in terms of durability.

With regard to towing, Volvos have traditionally been highly regarded as tugs, and the diesel versions of the Galaxy (virtually the same as the VW Sharan and Seat Alhambra) have also been well liked, but the poor economy of the 2.3 may make it less desirable

Even the most ardent caravanners usually spends more time driving solo than towing, so perhaps your comfort and convenience in the solo car should be your main consideration.

I primarily tow with a Renault Grande Espace (2.2dt 2000) and I find the vehicle tows really well. This may be helped by the weight and comparatively short rear overhang of the car which is feature of most MPV's, but for solo driving I much prefer my Saab 9-3 - horses for courses.

In general most caravanner's do far more miles in the solo car than as towed outfit, so it is probably better to find a car that you are comfortable driving.

 

[DianneT]

When we had a single axle caravan we had a blowout on the offside when driving on the M25. First we knew was when I saw as passenger saw rubber flying about at the back of the van thro the wing mirror. We stopped on the hard shoulder as far off as we could and called Green Flag and got out of the car and stood behind the crash barrier. Green Flag came along 20 mins later changed the wheel for us and then we were off. When we took the wheel to have a new tyre put on we told the guy it had Tyron Band on. When we picked up the wheel he told us there were no Tyron Bands on the wheel. We had paid for these to be put on especially to be safe. But the company that supposed to have fitted them had a fitter who was cheating him and selling the bands on instead of fitting them.

But to come back to the issue our tyre did not come off even tho we did not have Tyron bands fitted. Have twin axle now so no need to have them.

Good luck with your search for car and caravan and pleased you were not hurt.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Michael,

Just some further thoughts about the Tyron bands.

The primary purpose of the band is to prevent the tyre beads from moving away from the rim edge and ultimately slipping into the well of the wheel rim. By retaining the bead on the flatter area of the rim, the side walls of the tyre will tend to keep the tyre tread within the rims track, and as the bead retains some grip on the rim this allowing the brakes to have some effect. The band sits on top of the rim-well and physically prevents the tyre bead from dropping into the well.

Interestingly enough quite a number of modern wheel rims incorporate a bead retaining feature which renders the Tyron system unnecessary. - Check with your dealer to find out if your rims already incorporate this feature.

The Tyron band is only tested and demonstrated where the tyre deflates. Yes the company shows the detonation of an explosive charge on the tyre wall which give the viewer the impression that a blow-out has occurred. It is appropriate for emergency and military vehicles, where they are likely to be moving in areas where punctures might arise form debris or snipers bullets. This is very different damage compared the majority blow-outs that ordinary drivers experience

It is actually quite rare for a blow-out to occur due to driving over an object. The more usual result is a puncture and that usually is not an explosive event. Blow-outs are more usually the result of wear or age of a tyre, or possibly a manufacturing fault. When they occur the structural integrity of the tyre wall is usually highly compromised over a substantial portion of the wall and the tread may have detached. Given these circumstances a Tyron Band offers no advantage, because the wall and tread integrity has gone.

If the system was as good as they claim, ask yourself why legislation or insurance has not forced them (or similar products) to be fitted as a major safety improvement. Where are there not more manufactures of such products around the world? (I could only find two using an internet search)

Tyron have had many opportunities to answer these points, they have not responded or supplied any evidence support their improved safety claims.

They Tyre Band system will provide some help with a deflated tyre or slow puncture, but your normal pre trip checks should spot such issues.

The other important thing you must do if you have Tyre Bands fitted is get your wheels balanced.

 

[Guest]

I must commend your desire to get back out on the road as soon as possible. I admit that if it was me in that situation, I would be far more cautious and possibly look at something else apart from a caravan. I suspect that even with a new outfit I would be forever looking for a potential failure, and that would make having any pleasure, severely negated.

I accept the maxim that when you fall off your bike, you should get straight back on, but this is slightly different.

There have been comments here that speed was not a factor. I am sorry but I disagree with that, although I am not stating that you could have done anything differently. Speed must have been a factor to 'throw an outfit into the trees'. It is possible we are allowing towing speeds to rise too far and maybe should go back to the 50 maximum anywhere, and sod the gits honking behind you.

 

[FrintonMike]

I must commend your desire to get back out on the road as soon as possible. I admit that if it was me in that situation, I would be far more cautious and possibly look at something else apart from a caravan. I suspect that even with a new outfit I would be forever looking for a potential failure, and that would make having any pleasure, severely negated.

I accept the maxim that when you fall off your bike, you should get straight back on, but this is slightly different.

There have been comments here that speed was not a factor. I am sorry but I disagree with that, although I am not stating that you could have done anything differently. Speed must have been a factor to 'throw an outfit into the trees'. It is possible we are allowing towing speeds to rise too far and maybe should go back to the 50 maximum anywhere, and sod the gits honking behind you.

Thank you for your messages. It is all food for thought.

John L. the reason for trying to choose between 2 diverse cars is because the Volvo can tow a similar caravan to the one we have lost. We have seen a Coachman Pastiche which at a MTPLM of 1525 and is too heavy for the Volvo but is within 85% of the Galaxy.

I walk to the station and get a train to work and we use my wifes smaller car for everyday use so the Volvo or Galaxy would normally only be used for towing. For this reason I only want to spemd between

 

[Surfer]

Hello again Michael,

Just some further thoughts about the Tyron bands.

The primary purpose of the band is to prevent the tyre beads from moving away from the rim edge and ultimately slipping into the well of the wheel rim. By retaining the bead on the flatter area of the rim, the side walls of the tyre will tend to keep the tyre tread within the rims track, and as the bead retains some grip on the rim this allowing the brakes to have some effect. The band sits on top of the rim-well and physically prevents the tyre bead from dropping into the well.

Interestingly enough quite a number of modern wheel rims incorporate a bead retaining feature which renders the Tyron system unnecessary. - Check with your dealer to find out if your rims already incorporate this feature.

The Tyron band is only tested and demonstrated where the tyre deflates. Yes the company shows the detonation of an explosive charge on the tyre wall which give the viewer the impression that a blow-out has occurred. It is appropriate for emergency and military vehicles, where they are likely to be moving in areas where punctures might arise form debris or snipers bullets. This is very different damage compared the majority blow-outs that ordinary drivers experience

It is actually quite rare for a blow-out to occur due to driving over an object. The more usual result is a puncture and that usually is not an explosive event. Blow-outs are more usually the result of wear or age of a tyre, or possibly a manufacturing fault. When they occur the structural integrity of the tyre wall is usually highly compromised over a substantial portion of the wall and the tread may have detached. Given these circumstances a Tyron Band offers no advantage, because the wall and tread integrity has gone.

If the system was as good as they claim, ask yourself why legislation or insurance has not forced them (or similar products) to be fitted as a major safety improvement. Where are there not more manufactures of such products around the world? (I could only find two using an internet search)

Tyron have had many opportunities to answer these points, they have not responded or supplied any evidence support their improved safety claims.

They Tyre Band system will provide some help with a deflated tyre or slow puncture, but your normal pre trip checks should spot such issues.

The other important thing you must do if you have Tyre Bands fitted is get your wheels balanced.

You forgot to mention cicumstances where the tyre has picked up a nail which is rubbing on the inside of the tyre wall causing a blow out. This type of puncture may nmot be noticed becasue the driver has tyre seal or smilar in the tyre. Very dangerous!

 

[Brailleman]

I had a very similar experience in 1993. Having driven 300 miles from Dorset back to Yorkshire on a fine, sunny day, we were in the nearside lane approaching junction 23 which was our turn-off, when the caravan suddenly started snaking. We were going downhill at the time so I took the decision not to speed up to try to get out of it, which was the wrong deicision as the caravan went over and in so doing, flipped the car onto its roof.

Fortunately we were all uninjured. The only reason we could think of as to why it happened was a burst nearside tyre on the van. The van, a Coachman 520/4 was only 3 months old and the car, a Peugeot 405 was only 6 months old.

Fortunately the insurance companies replaced both of them with new replacements. But neither the insurance company or the police were interested or carried out any inspections to determine what had caused it. We had a Bulldog stabiliser fitted at the time.

We had the exact same caravan replacement for over 10 years without any further problems. We have Tyron bands fitted to our current caravan and also an Alko stabiliser. We are also going on holiday to Dorset for the first time since the accident in two weeks time, hopefully lightening won't strike twice (although it is outside at the moment.

I'm glad that no-one was injured and that you have not been put off caravanning. I never even considered not going caravanning again, although my wife was a bit nervous at first.

P.S. The portable colour TV, which was thrown from the centre of the caravan into the end bathroom in the accident, is still going strong 16 years later.

 

[Icemaker]

how strange Brailleman, we had a peugeot 405 which towed our swift challenger fine but when we bought our coachman pastiche 520/4 in 2002 we checked whether the car was good enougth to tow the van and the dealer stated that it was fine and one of the best tow cars you can buy at the time, however on our very first trip out with the van we had only travelled 2 miles and the van took complete control of the van aproaching a roundabout when all 4 wheels on the car locked up under braking and the cars computer thought the vehicle was at a standstill, the momentum pushed us straight in to oncoming traffic which fortunately stopped in time to avoid a collision.

i turned straight back home as i knew instantly that the car was not man enough to handle the heavy van as it had felt awkward and underpowered up to this point anyway, we put the van away and spent the weekend changing the car instead, i swapped it for a discovery which allthough a good car was pretty useless with a van on the back (unstable) and then a galaxy an alhambra and now a ford smax, with the last 3 cars we have never had one single problem with towing coachmans or the swift twin axle we had, we currently tow a coachman vip 530/4 with the smax which is a very stable and pretty eficient outfit.

 

[Lutz]

Brailleman said, quote "We were going downhill at the time so I took the decision not to speed up to try to get out of it, which was the wrong deicision as the caravan went over and in so doing, flipped the car onto its roof.". Fact is, you won't get out of a snake by speeding up. The only way to regain stability is to slow the caravan down, either by actively applying the car's brakes, by foot on the brake pedal or automatically if the towcar is fitted with ESP+ and TSP, or by an electronic stabiliser on the caravan such as the AlKo ATC or similar systems.

 

[Rioja]

Michael, sorry to hear about your experience....not pleasant.

In your original post you give little detail about your caravan other than to say it was loaded correctly and the tyres were checked and given the OK when it was serviced.

I had a blow out ( and praise Tyron bands as I found it easy to control my outfit despite having strayed to 70mph going down hill on a dual carrige way) and decided it was the tyres that, at 5 years old, had let me down. At a service a couple of months before I was assured they were fine. I swore I would never let my tyres get to that age again , and yet on my last service, despite requesting that they change my 4 year old tyres I found that they hadn't done so because they were apparently fine.

They had done various other jobs that were not necessary, like replace my water pump (

 

[Bill_374395301]

Michael, sorry to hear of your accident but I am a bit surprised that a blowout should have caused such devastation. You say 'the offside tyre blew' so am I correct in assuming that you are referring to the caravan and because you are talking in the singular, it was a single axle. I also assume that the A14 was relative straight when it happened.

I had a very similar incident on the motorway last year, but apart from a big bang and smoke coming out of the wheel arches after the burst tyre caught fire, the outfit remained absolutely steady (although I was towing at close to 100% weight ratio).

Despite my experience, I wouldn't think of having Tyron bands fitted as no-one has yet been able to prove to me that the consequences in the event of a blowout would be any less than without them. All their advertising shows is how well the outfit reacts with Tyron bands, but not how much worse it would have been without. Without such proof how can I judge whether they are worth their money?

I have had the misfortune to experience two blowouts on the same journey between Bristol and Birmingham on the M5. These were the result of tyre failure leading to tread seperation on tyres which were only a few months old.

On both these occasions the respective tyres were fitted with Tyron bands. Due to their fitment the only sign of a problem was a loud bang and the unit slowing down from 60MPH in a steady and controllable manner. One of the replacement tyres blew out on the A50 and again the fitting of Tyrons proved their worth.

Following these experiences I personally would not tow a caravan

for any distance without their fitment.

Incidentally following the third blow out I had the remaining tyre removed and I fitted a completely different make.

 

[GregClaire]

Brailleman said, quote "We were going downhill at the time so I took the decision not to speed up to try to get out of it, which was the wrong deicision as the caravan went over and in so doing, flipped the car onto its roof.". Fact is, you won't get out of a snake by speeding up. The only way to regain stability is to slow the caravan down, either by actively applying the car's brakes, by foot on the brake pedal or automatically if the towcar is fitted with ESP+ and TSP, or by an electronic stabiliser on the caravan such as the AlKo ATC or similar systems.

This is a very grey area of which many arguments will start.

I had to do a driving course some years back after crashing a car, there was also a couple of HGV drivers on there aswell.

When an instructor asked "how do you control a vehicle when towing if it becomes unsteady or snakes" quite a few people said apply the brakes whilst the HGV drivers said no you should accelerate slightly to pull it straight before slowing down as thats what they where told and thats what they do.

Strangely the instructors agreed with both parties saying it depended on exactly how bad it was as braking at the wrong time could cause the trailer to take control of the towing vehicle and you would loose total control.

I was also told this when I did my towing licence and have personally controlled "snakes" with both means.