Advice sought on possible damp Abbey GTS 215

[annashaun]

Hello, I am new to the forum and hoping to get some practical advice.. Went today to view a 1998 Abbey GTS 215, it's a beautiful caravan in great condition generally but has a obvious damp area at one side of the kitchen window. The seller is willing to drop the price to compensate for this but I am unsure of how much it would cost to repair and whether it is worth it.. Otherwise we really like the van. The damp looks to be coming from a dodgy seal on the kitchen window and has caused the internal wall to bubble and the wall is soft in an area about a foot square. I have checked in the cupboards and bed lockers and all seems solid, the floor is also solid but we cannot see behind the fridge which is below the window. If anyone has dealt with something similar or has any advice please get in touch! Thanks in advance.
Shaun

 

[johnandrew70]

hi Shaun
best thing to do is take the fridge vents off on outside of the van.you should be able to see or feel if it has gone too far.

 

[forestgump]

there are plenty off these vans about you carnt say what price it will cost to repare it will be worse than what you can see and to get the right match off pannels is a nother thing.

 

[Gagakev]

caravan side wet and soggy
[Page 1, 2, 3]
Take a look at this topic, if the link doesnt work it's on page 11 in this Technical Section,
I did a repair on my last van and took some photos which are on there on page 2. it is normally as Forest has said worst than expected but if you are prepared for the worst it can be done, but thinking now along the lines of I wouldnt actually buy one knowing it has damp!! Keep looking there's bound to be a better one somewhere.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Shaun,

Even with a damp meter it is not possible to establish the full extent of the affected area, or the actual condition of the structure inside the wall. That can only be discovered when the structure is stripped down.

Usually when damp becomes evident, its a bit like an ice berg, you only see the tip, but there's a lot more underneath that you cant see.

With deference to johnandrew70's comment, a cursory visual look through the vents will not tell the full story

Frankly if a caravan is showing signs of damp I would walk away.

If the seller is serious about selling the caravan he should get it repaired and then sell it - at least it would be in a known condition.

 

[johnandrew70]

with reference to the comment that Prof john left, they asked how they could gain access to behind the fridge and i told him, obviously if the timber frame around the top and bottom fridge vents are rotten then you are looking at the bigger picture, if however the timbers are not rotten and the floor is solid then as long as the van is cheap enough and you are pretty good with your DIY skills then take a chance.
its so easy to say stay well clear of a caravan with damp regardless of how cheap it is but some people cant afford to look at paying thousands of pounds on a decent van.
in fact i couldnt with my previous van which i bought for next to nothing knowing it needed work, i had damp in the front and rear of the van with part of the floor needing replacing just inside the door but 9 moths later and with minimal money spent on it, i have to say the van was back to how it was meant to be. and that was my first caravan so didnt know anything about them.
as for the van that Shaun is looking at if it was me and it was not the whole side wall that was rotten i would buy it, but the price has to reflect the ammount of work involved.
anyone wanting to see the restoration pics of my old 1986 lunar micron get in touch.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John ,
You make perfectly valid point, and for some it is a workable project. but even you did not know the scale of the work required until you stripped it back, so even though the seller may be offering a considerable price reduction, will it be enough to cover the cost of repaires? - no one really knows.
One of my Brothers in Law did just what you did, except the project he thought he was taking on turned out to be much bigger. The rot had spread from the front top corners into roof walls and floor, and ultimately from what he thought was a about a 3 or 4 sq feet at the front turned into about a third of the caravan. whilst the repair was strutureally sound, it was obvious it had been worked on
His wife was never really into it tourers so he decided to sell, which he did at a thumping great loss (largely due to the obvious nature of the repairs), and when he added up all the materials he eventualy used he relaised he could have bought a good caravan without the problem. and sold it without too much of a loss later.
Large scale caravan DIY repairs can easiliy becme a false economy.

 

[johnandrew70]

i agree entirely,
i was just pointing out that if the van in question was cheap enough it could be made into a very nice van, as i said it took me 9 months to get it right but i was in no rush and enjoyed it, the damp had rotted the timbers on both back and front from floor to ceiling,the floor just inside the door was replaced and the front outer aluminium panel had to be replaced also i decided to reseal the awning rails both sides and window rails, fitted new lino all in one peice

and i also replaced all window rubbers, everything was sourced from ebay i could have bought the orinal wallboard but decided not to as this would have been the most expensive part of the job and on a van of that age not worth it, if you want to see the pictures let me know i will try to upload them here.
as i said in my previous posting if the timbers around the fridge vent openings are in good condition the chances are it has not been leaking long, the wallboard wont take much water behind it to make it bubble, personally if it was me and the timbers looked ok around the fridge and floor it would be a case of stripping the fridge sink unit out etc remove wall board and get a dehumidifier in there dry it out completely then asses wheather the window timbers need replacing if they do its an easy job,sometimes you can get away with treating it with wood hardener, replace wallboard obviously with a hole for the window, then new window rubber, best get the quality stuff not the cheap stuff, fridge and sink unit back and job done.
all this could be done quite cheaply, i am a car valetor by trade and had not taken on anything like my old van befre i attempted that, so i was quite supprised how well i did, i even tackled the gas and electrics both 12v and 240v as well as towing lights etc.
the best thing is there is always someone on the internet that is willing to give advise on how things are done so if you have a problem google it and someone can tell you how its done, if you were near me i would even offer to help because you get a buzz out of helping others and breathing life into a van that some would condem to the scrap heap.

 

[forestgump]

or just look els where.

 

[johnandrew70]

You lot on here got no go or adventure

 

[Gagakev]

You lot on here got no go or adventure

Oh we got go alright, we go on adventures in our caravans.

If you read my post (No 3) I repaired my last one, and like you got real satisfaction from it, I traded it in and I saw it on a pitch at Stowford last week. When the dealer checked it for damp on trade in he was actually mighty impressed with the quality of the repair and NO damp.
All I said was It would be better to look further and try to get a dry one, implying they could use it straight away and not have it in bits.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Or awning pole in this case

 

[johnandrew70]

most of the dry ones are expensive

if you are thinking of buying a caravan and you have not got a lot of money then its going to need work or there is something wrong with it, we had between 4 and 5 grand to spend and it took us weeks to find a decent van, yes and its bone dry, some of the prices people wanted for there mould on wheels was rediculous, so yes you can look around to see if you can find a dry one but it wont be cheap, if its a budget van your after you have to be prepared to do some repairs, watch out for sellers who use air fresheners in there vans haha.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,
I think you may be being a little hard and unfair to many people by accusing them of loosing their sense of adventure.

Not everyone has the same skills as you, they may have some other reason such as lack of facilities or disability that prevents them from undertaking this type of repair work, or they may simply not enjoy DIY projects, That does not mean they have lost their sense of adventure, they get their satisfaction in other ways.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi Shaun.
Ignore the knockers for a moment mate and stick your sensible head on, and think about it practically before you decide one way or the other.
first what do you want the van to do? and how long do you expect to keep it? these may seem odd questions at first but are crucial in deciding if the project is worth doing at all.
if you just want the van as a starter to get you into caravanning and then move on to something newer and better "forget it" because a van with damp will allways be a van with damp no matter how well it is repaired it will never be worth much in value and worth next to nothing as a trade in and you wiil allways be able to see the repair no matter how good you do it because any repair will have to be done from the inside out, unless you intend to remove all the exterior panels (not recommended) and rebuild the frame " the way the pro's do it".
however if you like and intend to keep the van for a long time and use it for years on the understanding that in the end it will be just a repaired van and you are confident that you can effect a decent repair to it and the price you pay reflect the effort and cost you have to put in it may just may be worth while.
I must point out though that the extent of the problem WILL be far greater than you could possibly imagine without removing some panels I also garuntee that the frame will be affected somewhere believe me I have repaired 2 vans before the last one had a damp patch below the front window (about 6in square) after removing the bunks and the front inner panel found the whole window frame and 2 front struts had completely gone, I did eventually do the repairs and dry the van out but it took 2 months to do so be warned?.
I am in no way trying to put you off though because the satifaction and pride in a job well done is worth more than probably the van is knowing you have restored and rescued something you can use and enjoy is payment enough.
I have no idea of the price the vendor is asking but it should in my view be in the region of 25 to 30% of the market value it would have been if no damp was present, if the vendor is not happy at this ask him get a quote for a proffesional repair (probably done this allready) and knock the cost off the asking price +10% for the hassle of having it done. alternatively get him to have the repairs done first and then when you go back make an offer 20% less than the market value because the van has had to be repaired for damp issues good luck either way mate, and post us what you decide.
colin

 

[johnandrew70]

Prof john i was joking with you guys when i said you have lost your adventure, i know what you mean about not having the facilitys etc, but we are all forgeting one important thing here, Shaun asked us the question so he must have some DIY skills and somewhere to do the job or he would have walked away from it.

Colin i like your reply, very well said, you do get satisfaction out of what you do and like any van you buy if you intend to keep it for years then its just going to be work in progress.because weather it be damp at some point or a new addition to the van there will always be something that you want to add to it.

where are all you guys from anyway i am new on here but its nice to find out where people are from etc.

 

[ValA.]

There are decent, cheap caravans out there without damp. We bought one sixteen years ago. If the owner has cared for it properly, kept the seals in good condition, and repaired problems as they arise, then you may find an absolute cracker. I wouldn't touch this one unless it's being 'given away' - keep looking until you find a better one, and take a damp-tester with you. Don't commit to something which may take you months of work (during which you won't be able to 'caravan') unless you want a DIY project and have plenty of space to work on it in dry conditions, under cover, for many weeks or months.
We found several non-damp caravans by looking in supermarket adverts - all the vans we saw were being advertised by caravanners either giving up, or moving upmarket - and you could tell almost immediately who had looked after their van properly. One or two had problems with damp, but others definitely didn't. We saw an absolute corker but unfortunately the layout was no use to us. It belonged to an ninety-two year old who had kept it absolutely immaculate, and all the original equipment (including china and glass) were still present. The van we bought was dry, well looked after, and came complete with awning, portable fridge, pots and pans, and lots of other bits and pieces - some we still use.
My advice would be keep looking.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Shaun,
I think you can see the issue of considering a secondhand caravan with damp or even a history of damp can be fraught with issues, some like John have been able o spend the time and money to repair the caravan to a standard they are happy with, others have not been so lucky, and it may not have been the good value they thought in the first instance.

Colin in my opinion has summed it up very well, the points he makes are saliant, and only you can deceide on the balance of risk against certanty.

Unlike many other types of caravan or equipement repair, damp issues are always the most difficult to assess and often some of the most difficult to resolve.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

where are all you guys from anyway i am new on here but its nice to find out where people are from etc.

hi John west yorkshire near wakefield but you will have gethered that allready if you have read a few of my posts"

Val A, does have a valid point here, there are some good dry vans out there and the older ones should be well within anyone pocket depth if you look hard enough and with a bit of refurbishment on the carpets and curtains front would no doubt add value to them,

However someone earlier mentioned the spirit of adventure, a project like the one Shaun asked about can and is worth doing IF the van is to be used long term and the price is low enough to make the project viable and the skills and tools adequate enough to effect a good repair, as I said in my post my intention was not to put Shaun off but give him a heads up from experience as to what is involved and the pitfalls and pleasures of doing such a project.
If he does decide to go ahead there is a wealth of knowlege on the forum from members who have done similar repairs who I am sure will help him along the way, make no mistake though it is no easy fix and a job not to be taken lightly but in the end could provide a very cheap van that the family can use and get pleasure out of for many years ahead.

colin

 

[johnandrew70]

That last comment from Colin is just what i have been saying.
if we all decided to ditch our caravans because the window rubber needed replacing at the point of water coming in there would be a lot of damp caravans out there, and at least if you do the repairs yourself you know that it has been done right, take for instance a friend of mine who had to replace his window, but didnt know how so instead of talking to me first he decided to take it to his local stealer (Dealer), they gave him a price to fit the window he had already bought and he left the caravan with them. the next day he had a call to say the van was ready for collection, now he was thinking brilliant how quick was that and picked the van up and happy days until i saw it and pointed out that they had bent his window rail, you see what they had done is removed the screws on one end of the rail on the front of the van to slide the old window out past his awning rail and in doing so had put a kink in the rail ok so if they were that hap handed with that did they reseal the rail, probably not and giving him a 6 month warrenty on the repair is rubbish because if that starts leaking it will be 12 months before he see's signs of this.
now if you had done this yourself you would know the rail had been resealed and the van is dry.
i am not saying that all stealers are the same in fact some are brilliant and will look after your pride and joy but you need to know things have been done right.
as colin said if shaun is going to keep the van for a number of years and its not gone too far and the price reflects the fact it needs work then it is worth doing especially on a van of that age. to be honest if its similar to the spec that i have its probably better than some new vans. they seem to be thrown together these days using cheap materials and cold coloured furnishings not my thing but it takes allsorts.
so we will just wait for Shaun to get back to us all to see what he decided, would also be nice if we knew what sort of price the seller was asking, makes all the diference

by the way Colin i am in Helston in not so sunny Cornwall would love to get up to North Yorkshire but never got the time to go that far or the Fuel haha.

 

[annashaun]

Wow!!
Thankyou all very much for your advice, after sleeping on it for a couple of days, I decided not to purchase the 'Damp Van' after all.
I don't get much spare time as it is, so to have a project like that could potentially take me a while, anyway i let the seller know, and I'm now on the look out again.

Thanks once again

Shaun

 

[johnandrew70]

hi shaun out of intrest how much did they want for it?