Air Suspension

[CliveV]

A couple of comments elswhere as well as here on the Forum seems to suggest that Air Suspension is not that good for towing. Seen a couple of comments re the Discovery TD5 on this point.

Is it a problem? And has it, or is easily rectified?

I would have thought Air-suspension would be excellent for towing.

 

[sparkes]

Hi Clive

Self leveling air suspension is absolutely brilliant when towing. the problem with the earlier TD5's was that there was no load indication to the units and that it reacted very quickly to ride height. this means that during a pitch of the van the unit let air out to re-level the car and then had to pump it back up again when the weight was re-applied. A simpe fix I was told about was to hit the button on the dash that increased the height of the back.

The later TD5's has some way of telling that a tow is taking place and restricts the unit to a far better level.

The only reason I did not choose it was because if it goes wrong it is costly. but we modified the Disco to have adjustable air bags in the springs to give the same benefit. that way if one was to burst or get damaged we still have the original suspension and can carry on regardless.

Steve

 

[CliveV]

Thanks for that Steve

I asked because I have just seen a rather nice LSE (I like the classic shape RR and cannot afford the new type) and this off course has air suspension.

In some ways its a shame it's the LSE - but what about all that space in the back! - Like a Limo.

Could fancy that as my 84 RR is getting rather tired now.

 

[sparkes]

If its of any help, I never heard of a problem with the RR.

Steve

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

Hi Clive,

We have a 2000 TD5 with air suspension. In all honesty we have never had any problems with stability or the level of the caravan at all.

We keep the nose weight on the van at about 100kg and it tows beautifully. No pitching, sagging and have never pressed the button to raise the back of the car.

We had both the 200 and 300 Discos before and always found that we towed slightly nose up. No problems with that now.

 

[Paul8]

Hi Clive,

We have a 2000 TD5 with air suspension. In all honesty we have never had any problems with stability or the level of the caravan at all.

We keep the nose weight on the van at about 100kg and it tows beautifully. No pitching, sagging and have never pressed the button to raise the back of the car.

We had both the 200 and 300 Discos before and always found that we towed slightly nose up. No problems with that now.

I met a couple on a site in Devon earlier in the year who had a twoing accident with a 2002 Disco TD5. They shown me some pics- not nice. Anyway I am sure that they mentioned something about the self levelling suspension- if you hitched up with the door open then the suspension didn't level up? They now have an 04 Disco TD5.

Bernard- are you out there? We met at Damage Barton and you were an expert on this!

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

I met a couple on a site in Devon earlier in the year who had a twoing accident with a 2002 Disco TD5. They shown me some pics- not nice. Anyway I am sure that they mentioned something about the self levelling suspension- if you hitched up with the door open then the suspension didn't level up? They now have an 04 Disco TD5.

Bernard- are you out there? We met at Damage Barton and you were an expert on this!

RUBBISH!!!!

It doesn't make any difference at all whether you hitch up with the door open or closed!!!

IMO I am convinced alot of these people do not load their 'vans correctly and that is what is causing the instability. As I said, keep the noseweight up...no problems.

 

[Paul8]

RUBBISH!!!!

It doesn't make any difference at all whether you hitch up with the door open or closed!!!

IMO I am convinced alot of these people do not load their 'vans correctly and that is what is causing the instability. As I said, keep the noseweight up...no problems.

Err easy Wendy....just saying what I was told by an owner. Probably rubbish but as I said just what they told me. I won't bother next time

 

[sparkes]

RUBBISH!!!!

It doesn't make any difference at all whether you hitch up with the door open or closed!!!

IMO I am convinced alot of these people do not load their 'vans correctly and that is what is causing the instability. As I said, keep the noseweight up...no problems.

Wendy

On a TD5 or RR with Air suspension the rear door switch is used to deactivate the air units. Something to do with health and safty.

Its built into the design and I am sure it is also used on other makes

Steve

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

Wendy

On a TD5 or RR with Air suspension the rear door switch is used to deactivate the air units. Something to do with health and safty.

Its built into the design and I am sure it is also used on other makes

Steve

Well if thats the case it certainly makes no difference when you hitch up.

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

Err easy Wendy....just saying what I was told by an owner. Probably rubbish but as I said just what they told me. I won't bother next time

Sorry Paul...didn.t mean to shout.

 

[sparkes]

Well if thats the case it certainly makes no difference when you hitch up.

Hi Wendy, No it should not make a difference and a working air unit should give a far better towing experience than a std suspension.

I just checked the manual and on page 126 (if you have a 2003 or newer car) it states that the SLS (self leveling suspension will not operate while a door is open. However, I cannot find in the manual the proceedure to disable it, which is something to do with the ignition and the door. This might cause towing problems.

Steve

 

[CliveV]

Thanks for that Wendy - lovely to see someone as enthusiastic about their tow vehicle as my wife and I are about ours!

Trouble is it is just getting a bit tired and we have the opportunity to get trade in a 2001 Freelander and a 1984 Range Rover (Trade in??) and get just one vehicle.

I want to go for a soft dash late RR but SWMBO wants a "new reg" Disco.

But I have to say Wendy that it was these reports of "funny niggles" with early TD5's that I was on about when I posted.

I have seen that the later ones had the problem sorted but I would like to know what to look for and on what particular models. Whatever the problem is - being a LR it will be fixable but if I can avoid any cost or problem when towing in the first place so much the better.

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

Thanks for that Wendy - lovely to see someone as enthusiastic about their tow vehicle as my wife and I are about ours!

Trouble is it is just getting a bit tired and we have the opportunity to get trade in a 2001 Freelander and a 1984 Range Rover (Trade in??) and get just one vehicle.

I want to go for a soft dash late RR but SWMBO wants a "new reg" Disco.

But I have to say Wendy that it was these reports of "funny niggles" with early TD5's that I was on about when I posted.

I have seen that the later ones had the problem sorted but I would like to know what to look for and on what particular models. Whatever the problem is - being a LR it will be fixable but if I can avoid any cost or problem when towing in the first place so much the better.

Clive,

We all have our likes and dislikes, but it seems as if everybody has had it in for the Land Rover just lately.

Like you, we are great fans of our LR's, past and present, and it makes me wonder whether these people own or have ever owned one.

You can only speak from experience, and our experiences have all been good.

We shall hopefully be changing our TD5 next year for the Series

3 Disco (If we can get a 2nd hand one that is) and can't wait!!!

 

[MONKEY1]

Clive obviously as an IFA your qualified to recommend how people spend and invest their money - perhaps you should take your work home with you.

On PC'sister website What Car the Land Rover Freelander (97-00)is the fifth most unreliable car in the UK. Subjective it may be but the data on LR products is pretty consistent. LR Also comes bottom of the pile by make.

When working in fleet management I used to get a report by the largest lease Co in the country. As often they pay out regardless of the situation to keep the end client happy they have a vested interest in keeping outlay to a minimum I remember three things.

Most expensive car on to repair average OUTSIDE OF WARRANTY - Land Rover, Longest time in Hours (or rather days) off the road in the case of Land Rover. Three - most claims in the average 3 years - yes you guessed it !!

It's a shame that a company who probably made one of the most recognisable products of the 20th century went from 100% of the 4x4 in Australia to less than 10% the in 20 years. Funny thing was I was looking recently at a SH Freelander and it looks a nice car!!

On the outside and all that...

Monkeys Husband

 

[gary_5083940]

Clive obviously as an IFA your qualified to recommend how people spend and invest their money - perhaps you should take your work home with you.

On PC'sister website What Car the Land Rover Freelander (97-00)is the fifth most unreliable car in the UK. Subjective it may be but the data on LR products is pretty consistent. LR Also comes bottom of the pile by make.

When working in fleet management I used to get a report by the largest lease Co in the country. As often they pay out regardless of the situation to keep the end client happy they have a vested interest in keeping outlay to a minimum I remember three things.

Most expensive car on to repair average OUTSIDE OF WARRANTY - Land Rover, Longest time in Hours (or rather days) off the road in the case of Land Rover. Three - most claims in the average 3 years - yes you guessed it !!

It's a shame that a company who probably made one of the most recognisable products of the 20th century went from 100% of the 4x4 in Australia to less than 10% the in 20 years. Funny thing was I was looking recently at a SH Freelander and it looks a nice car!!

On the outside and all that...

Monkeys Husband

i have a mercedes v class-people carrier.it has air suspension on the rear .the best thing ever fitted to a car.although i have just had to put a new compressor on -

 

[sparkes]

Those type of survays are to be taken with a pinch of salt. The same ones say that Lexus is great, reliable and no problems

In 3 yrs of owning one of them, It spent over 8 months in the garage. Complete load of rubbish.

As for Service costs, these are based on main dealer. Local garages can cut the cost dramatically as the parts are cheap.

eg, all disc and pads replaced on a 2003 TD5 - cost

 

[MONKEY1]

Can't see how a survey that's independent and relies on us to give feedback is any thing but fair...

Especially when so many people have responded to the likes of JD Power, Parkers etc and you get the same results.

Monkey's mate

 

[CliveV]

Problem has been poor management - BMW didn't want it and virtually gave it away.

Ford are working wonders. And they will I suspect improve things even more when the Freelander is not made at Lode Lane when the new model arrives. The riot act has been read to the workers and they know it was them or those at Jaguar.

Please do not think I am blinkerred to the LR's faults. But other makes are not immune. Ask anyone that had a 3 liter diesel Trooper!!

And if these Jap cars are so good where are all the 25 year old Pajeros, Troopers etc. Come to think of it the Merc G Wagon is a good car but I do not see many of them about in Europe on my travels.

Thing about a LR is that it exudes character. No other vehicle does it better.

Considering the funding LR got as part of BL, then BMW - It was a miracle it managed to produce the RR and the Disco at all. The problem in Oz was that BL retained the distribution. Where knock down kits were used the product was good.

The development spend of the original Disco would probably not buy the Factory lunches for a week at Mitzubishi.

Incidently - best story I heard was that to test how airtight the Shogun was the shut in a couple of rats. After a couple of hours they were showing clear distress so they took them out.

Land Rover thought they would try it. Two days later the rats were still seen running about in the tightly locked LR.

On the third day they escaped.

Like I said - character - if you have to ask "Why?"

You would not understand the answer.

Monkeys - Husband - please don't bother getting a LR - from what you say I do not think one would suit you.

 

[Terry_5081750]

Those type of survays are to be taken with a pinch of salt. The same ones say that Lexus is great, reliable and no problems

In 3 yrs of owning one of them, It spent over 8 months in the garage. Complete load of rubbish.

As for Service costs, these are based on main dealer. Local garages can cut the cost dramatically as the parts are cheap.

eg, all disc and pads replaced on a 2003 TD5 - cost

 

[MONKEY1]

It may suit me, it was black had 4 wheels and shinny bit's .. but not my wallet after all what point is paying your money only to have to accept mediocrity.

Don't accept second best .. By the way what's with the dark comments?? Surely one of the key points of the forum is to ask WHY? Followed by a rational response or at least that's what it says on the tin?

Monkey's mate

 

[Lol1]

The quality of Land Rover products is well documented, there are quite a few rogue ones around, and with their increasing complexity, it must be a worry. There is another side to the coin though, maintenance and repairs can be cheaper than many super mini's, a lot of the components are interchangeable, and used in all the ranges. Hence when I needed a service on my old Range Rover, all I did was take it to the Army "MT" and they managed to complete it no problem and at a much reduced price. Not only that the older models had a higher tolerance for misuse, out in the field when an engine needed its timing setting, it was a simple mater or turning the whole distributor round until the engine sounded sweet. Try that on a modern day car, Land Rovers fault easy but they fix easy. As Clive says, they have character, it is believed that on a series three Lad Rover you can find at least 101 bottle openers, is it true, probably not but it adds to the legend. Then you look at all the series one Landies still bimbling about, some older than us and in better nick. I don't like the sophistication of the present day products, I know it's inevitable, but sometimes simplicity wears that much better. If I was you Monkey's husband (why don't we hear so much from Monkey these days?) and thinking of going 4x4 with a Land Rover, think hard before you part with your cash. New does not necessarily mean best.

 

[CliveV]

Hi Lol & Monkeys husband

Lol - you and i must stop singing from the same hymsheet or people will start talking - there is enough multiple personalities already on this Forum and it does not need any more. Agree 100% once again.

As for Monkeys Hubbies point - yes I agree - but we have a 2001 Freelander - purchased from new and its great!

Superb off road and build quality is as good as most and better than some. But it still manages to exude character.

I loved my Audis that I had in the past but I never wanted to keep them. Always happy to trade them in. Never considerred keeping it for another year because I(we) like driving it.

Driving and Audi exuded quality but the emotional attachment was the same as I get with a super clean urinal. Nice - even enjoayable - but happy to leave it and move on.

Driving my old Range Rover and the Freelander is like sitting in your favourite pub with a pint of Ringwood 49'er in your hand talking to your mates. Even when its over, you get a grin on your face anticipating the next time.

 

[anita marsden]

Hi Clive

You'll have to excuse my explaination a bit. This is hubby's topic but as I have had to hold the torch I think that just about qualifies me to answer your queries RE: RR LR TD5 & 300, LR Defender and Audi.

Airbags on TD5, we had this problem. In the morning it looked like the space shuttle waiting to take off. It is NOT a big job and not expensive really?? (Depends how much you think is expensive)We did have LR assistance out the first time (it was stuill under cover so why not) all they did was reset the computer, yeah initially it worked but not for long. A tiny pin hole is all is needed picked up from grit etc. Levelling for towing no problems, awesome machine. LR300 more workable not as much computer stuff. RR beautiful looking, especially when equipped with 19" wheels.(My opinion) we had diesel, much slower than TD5 but never had problems with suspension. Both sound great in hot weather with fans kicking in, bit V8 sounding. (Now don't get me going on V8 engine - oohh!!)Audi A6 tiptronic best power towing we've ever had. How quick do you want to get to 60mph?? And if you want more it just goes again. Big heavy car, luxury inside but unfortunatley not heavy enough for our van. Didn't feel 100%, tail wagging dog. Been spoilt with LR's. So deciding to have a change, we now pull with a Grand Cherokee Jeep. Has all the interior luxury of a RR but more ump than a TD5. And last but not least our Defender who called Bambi. Slightly battled scarred (guess what we do in our spare time)but still manages to tow in all of the above when they break down.

 

[CliveV]

Really - did you fit your V8 in the defender?