AL-KO IRS axle failure on 9 month old Swift Sprite Alpine 4 caravan

[KJF400]

Many thanks for all of your inputs I am grateful for your comments and the information provided.
I have been in contact with Fraser Brown and he has been very helpful .

I can’t say too much at the moment as I don't want to jeopardise any possible future court proceedings.

The MTPLM of my van as stated above is 1284kgs and I assumed the axle would be rated at 1300kgs. I never looked at increasing as I didn’t need the extra capacity.

I based all my loading calculations on these figures which after deducting all the extras left me a payload of 70kgs , not a lot but as I said we only need to travel with the basics as we have an apartment full of all our stuff for the summer in Corfu.



The axle is actually rated at 1500kg , so if anything I have been operating well below its maximum capability.

The legal advice offered by my insurers was that under £10,000 it was best to present the case myself as employing solicitors can get expensive.

I spend 15 years as a police officer so am no stranger to the courts and feel I can give a good account of myself .
I spent the last 25 years of my working life as an airline Captain flying passenger jets around Europe.
As a police officer I was authorised under the Road traffic act to weight motor vehicles and witnessed first hand the distress and disruption caused to people who had been put through this process.
As a Captain I was responsible for making sure the aircraft was loaded correctly in accordance with is weight and balance restrictions before every flight .

I only mention this to show that I am very aware of the ramifications of overloading a vehicle and take the defamatory and serious accusation of doing so as a personal insult.

Hopefully this will be resolved on Wednesday and I can get my caravan back in time for this summers trip.

I will keep you updated.

 

[otherclive]

Many thanks for all of your inputs I am grateful for your comments and the information provided.
I have been in contact with Fraser Brown and he has been very helpful .

I can’t say too much at the moment as I don't want to jeopardise any possible future court proceedings.

The MTPLM of my van as stated above is 1284kgs and I assumed the axle would be rated at 1300kgs. I never looked at increasing as I didn’t need the extra capacity.

I based all my loading calculations on these figures which after deducting all the extras left me a payload of 70kgs , not a lot but as I said we only need to travel with the basics as we have an apartment full of all our stuff for the summer in Corfu.



The axle is actually rated at 1500kg , so if anything I have been operating well below its maximum capability.

The legal advice offered by my insurers was that under £10,000 it was best to present the case myself as employing solicitors can get expensive.

I spend 15 years as a police officer so am no stranger to the courts and feel I can give a good account of myself .
I spent the last 25 years of my working life as an airline Captain flying passenger jets around Europe.
As a police officer I was authorised under the Road traffic act to weight motor vehicles and witnessed first hand the distress and disruption caused to people who had been put through this process.
As a Captain I was responsible for making sure the aircraft was loaded correctly in accordance with is weight and balance restrictions before every flight .

I only mention this to show that I am very aware of the ramifications of overloading a vehicle and take the defamatory and serious accusation of doing so as a personal insult.

Hopefully this will be resolved on Wednesday and I can get my caravan back in time for this summers trip.

I will keep you updated.

Would you not be claiming under the Small Claim Court online process, as the cost of having a new axle supplied and fitted is well within that court’s financial limit. As you probably know it’s a straightforward process.

PS edit my Sprite had a payload upgrade to 1300 kg and the axle was rated at 1300 kg. My investigation showed a 1301-1500 kg axle should fit. But none of Swift, Swift dealership, AWS workshop or Alko UK would support the supply or fitting an uprated axle. But in your case having a 1500 kg axle on a sub 1300kg caravan makes it even more unlikely that the problem is due to overload, given the 1500 kg axle will have a design margin.

 

[Buckman]

Many thanks for all of your inputs I am grateful for your comments and the information provided.
I have been in contact with Fraser Brown and he has been very helpful .

I can’t say too much at the moment as I don't want to jeopardise any possible future court proceedings.

The MTPLM of my van as stated above is 1284kgs and I assumed the axle would be rated at 1300kgs. I never looked at increasing as I didn’t need the extra capacity.

I based all my loading calculations on these figures which after deducting all the extras left me a payload of 70kgs , not a lot but as I said we only need to travel with the basics as we have an apartment full of all our stuff for the summer in Corfu.



The axle is actually rated at 1500kg , so if anything I have been operating well below its maximum capability.

The legal advice offered by my insurers was that under £10,000 it was best to present the case myself as employing solicitors can get expensive.

I spend 15 years as a police officer so am no stranger to the courts and feel I can give a good account of myself .
I spent the last 25 years of my working life as an airline Captain flying passenger jets around Europe.
As a police officer I was authorised under the Road traffic act to weight motor vehicles and witnessed first hand the distress and disruption caused to people who had been put through this process.
As a Captain I was responsible for making sure the aircraft was loaded correctly in accordance with is weight and balance restrictions before every flight .

I only mention this to show that I am very aware of the ramifications of overloading a vehicle and take the defamatory and serious accusation of doing so as a personal insult.

Hopefully this will be resolved on Wednesday and I can get my caravan back in time for this summers trip.

I will keep you updated.

Wow you have had a very adventurous life! As for small claims court etc, you can only take the dealer to court and it is highly unlikely that they would want to go to court. In the past with a Lunar caravan when the dealer did not want to play ball we issue summons for court and advised that we would be calling Lunar as a witness. That is the only way you can get the manufacturer or ALKO into the court room. Our issue was resolved in 2 weeks!

There is no need to employ expensive solicitors if you join Which Legal Services. Cost at the moment for a newbie is £65 for the year for as much legal information as it s required and you get the correct consumer advice. We used them and took on dealer and saved us thousands. We currently have an issue that could leave us over £3000 out of pocket, but using advice from WLS the FOS ruled in our favour.

 

[longtailtit]

The link to the Bailey case is here:-

Bailey ALKO Axle Problem

UPDATE A copy of an email was published on Bailey UK Owners Facebook page on 9th March 2018. It seems to suggest that Bailey are now addressing the axle problem IF REPORTED, however I am not sure o…

worldwidewalkies.blog

worldwidewalkies

You can possibly contact the lady directly - she is very nice & we had a chat once about how bad some caravan companies are at admitting fault (and always looking to blame the customer instead).

 

[Buckman]

The link to the Bailey case is here:-

Bailey ALKO Axle Problem

UPDATE A copy of an email was published on Bailey UK Owners Facebook page on 9th March 2018. It seems to suggest that Bailey are now addressing the axle problem IF REPORTED, however I am not sure o…

worldwidewalkies.blog

worldwidewalkies

You can possibly contact the lady directly - she is very nice & we had a chat once about how bad some caravan companies are at admitting fault (and always looking to blame the customer instead).

See post #6.

 

[KJF400]

Would you not be claiming under the Small Claim Court online process, as the cost of having a new axle supplied and fitted is well within that court’s financial limit. As you probably know it’s a straightforward process.

Would you not be claiming under the Small Claim Court online process, as the cost of having a new axle supplied and fitted is well within that court’s financial limit. As you probably know it’s a straightforward process.

I must admit I’m not familiar with the online process. I presume this would be suitable where the claim is not contested by the defendant . I expect that if this goes that far Glossop would have to call someone from AlKO to support their decision and give evidence to prove their case .
Wether that can be done online or not I don’t know.

 

[Buckman]

I must admit I’m not familiar with the online process. I presume this would be suitable where the claim is not contested by the defendant . I expect that if this goes that far Glossop would have to call someone from AlKO to support their decision and give evidence to prove their case .
Wether that can be done online or not I don’t know.

You are really jumping the gun by even thinking of Small Claims court as that is way down the list. You need to try every other avenue to resolve the issue before going near a SCC and then it will take a long time before your case is heard.

Keep everything in writing and in chronological order. You do not need court as the law in this case is on your side. If you start threatening the dealer with court at this point they may make it difficult for you.

As I have mentioned CRA 2015 S9 is your friend, but you may need an expert witness to verify that the axle was not up to standard etc. I am not mechanically minded so cannot offer advice on that aspect.

 

[otherclive]

I must admit I’m not familiar with the online process. I presume this would be suitable where the claim is not contested by the defendant . I expect that if this goes that far Glossop would have to call someone from AlKO to support their decision and give evidence to prove their case .
Wether that can be done online or not I don’t know.

No the SCC process can be contested but it starts off requiring both parties to try and resolve the issue. The court can provide a telephone mediator within the initial payment. Then if that’s unsuccessful you move on to providing a high level summary of the claim. This goes to the other party and their response comes to you. If unsatisfactory you pay the next payment and you provide all of your case details including any independent reports etc. The other party can respond likewise. Then if agreement is not reached theSCC makes its decision, or can in some cases refer the case to the conven civil court. A friend of mine had a claim for £10k of damp in his new motorhome and was pursuing it via SCC.

 

[otherclive]

See post #6.

And the second link in post # 2😂 brought on by the experince of the same fault, albeit on a pre owned caravan not easy to prove no overloading had occurred. But at around £1300 to fix it wasn’t worth my while trying to fight such an issue.

 

[Raywood]

I think we simply need to wait until Swift and ALKO give their answer to the claim. If they agree to replace the axle then all is well but we will have to see.

 

[KJF400]

Finally got my van back which was repaired free of charge as a gesture of goodwill !

I was not given access to the engineers report but had a good chat with him on the day .

He was of the opinion that I may have inadvertently overloaded one side of the axle as he said this could easily have been done as most of the weight is on this side of the van due to its layout. ( hence no warranty repair)

He based his decision on 2 facts.

1/ The axle had passed a bench check

2/ There is no tolerance built into these axles, 1kg over its maximum weight could cause irreparable damage .

I disagreed with him as the axle was tested 7 months prior to me taking delivery of the van during which time it would have been attached to the chassis had a caravan body attached and been transported to the dealer all of which were outside my control .

The test could have damaged the axle or it could have been damaged at any time during the vans construction.

The results showed the axle had been tested at 1500kgs , I did ask if both sides are tested at 1500kgs but have yet to receive an answer.

Also Alko states in its adverts that these axles are shock tested to 3 times their maximum weight.

I was working to an MTPLM 216kgs less than the actual max weight making it less likely that I would overload it .

He accepted that it was probable that the MTPLM had not been exceeded but that the offside of the axle had.

I asked where I could find the figures that informed me of the max weight for each side , was it a case of just halving the max weight .


Apparently it’s not that simple as the nose weight comes into the equation but
roughly it would equate to half the maximum.

Going to a public weigh bridge will only give you the vans all up weight +/-20kgs , they cannot give individual side weights.

A portable weighing machine will but only has an accuracy to +/-100kgs

Not very useful when 1 kg out will spoil your day.

So it would appear that loading is a bit of a guessing game which when you have an axle that is so weight sensitive makes it far from desirable.


These axles are advertised by Alko as being robust and durable designed for the rough terrain of Australia.

Swift claim they are known for manufacturing durable long lasting caravans .


How they make these claims when the axle is so fragile 1 kg can destroy it is a mystery to me .

My concern is that there are more vans out there with the same failure that hasn’t been detected.

Alko deemed my van to be unroadworthy but haven't answered the question why, or what the consequences would have been If I had continued using it .

I am suggesting to Swift that they include taking measurements which can detect these failures as part of the annual service.

If you have any doubts about your own my advice is to get it checked.

 

[otherclive]

Finally got my van back which was repaired free of charge as a gesture of goodwill !

I was not given access to the engineers report but had a good chat with him on the day .

He was of the opinion that I may have inadvertently overloaded one side of the axle as he said this could easily have been done as most of the weight is on this side of the van due to its layout. ( hence no warranty repair)

He based his decision on 2 facts.

1/ The axle had passed a bench check

2/ There is no tolerance built into these axles, 1kg over its maximum weight could cause irreparable damage .

I disagreed with him as the axle was tested 7 months prior to me taking delivery of the van during which time it would have been attached to the chassis had a caravan body attached and been transported to the dealer all of which were outside my control .

The test could have damaged the axle or it could have been damaged at any time during the vans construction.

The results showed the axle had been tested at 1500kgs , I did ask if both sides are tested at 1500kgs but have yet to receive an answer.

Also Alko states in its adverts that these axles are shock tested to 3 times their maximum weight.

I was working to an MTPLM 216kgs less than the actual max weight making it less likely that I would overload it .

He accepted that it was probable that the MTPLM had not been exceeded but that the offside of the axle had.

I asked where I could find the figures that informed me of the max weight for each side , was it a case of just halving the max weight .


Apparently it’s not that simple as the nose weight comes into the equation but
roughly it would equate to half the maximum.

Going to a public weigh bridge will only give you the vans all up weight +/-20kgs , they cannot give individual side weights.

A portable weighing machine will but only has an accuracy to +/-100kgs

Not very useful when 1 kg out will spoil your day.

So it would appear that loading is a bit of a guessing game which when you have an axle that is so weight sensitive makes it far from desirable.


These axles are advertised by Alko as being robust and durable designed for the rough terrain of Australia.

Swift claim they are known for manufacturing durable long lasting caravans .


How they make these claims when the axle is so fragile 1 kg can destroy it is a mystery to me .

My concern is that there are more vans out there with the same failure that hasn’t been detected.

Alko deemed my van to be unroadworthy but haven't answered the question why, or what the consequences would have been If I had continued using it .

I am suggesting to Swift that they include taking measurements which can detect these failures as part of the annual service.

If you have any doubts about your own my advice is to get it checked.

A good outcome for you. My Sprite had its offside suspension drop. I was pre owned and nearly five years old when it was noticed. But its major weight items were on the offside and I did read that Swift specs allowed for an ex works 45:55 weight asymmetry. My axles limit was 1300 kg on a 1300 kg MTPLM.

 

[otherclive]

Here you go regarding axles failures on Baileys caravans. https://worldwidewalkies.blog/2018/02/10/bailey-alko-axle-problem/

That link was provided to the OP during the initial conversations on his failed suspension. It shows how much effort is required to contest these claims even in a new caravan with an MTPLM more than 200kg below axle limit. Unbelievable when the examining engineer says a weight 1kg above max limit could cause irreparable damage. Do I believe him based on my experience overloading a 1000kg MTPLM by nearly 250kg……..????

 

[Dustydog]

A great result for KJF 400. Many thanks for the comprehensive update.
I believe Swift do issue for a price an upgrade weight plate showing a higher MTLPM for those who need more load allowance and have the vehicle that can cope. So to say this caravan was only within 1 kgs of its limit must be a concern
We know from past threads AL-ko attach a weight load stamp to every axle they sell.
My TA at an MTPLM of 1698kgs has two axles each quoted at 1000kgs. So there is a margin in my case.
Also how on earth can any of us be expected to factor differing loads from one side to the other? If such data is crucial surely Swift or Al-ko should tell us the figures.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I very pleased the OP has got hs caravan repaired and apparently FOC which is great news, but I am totally amazed at some of the comments he reports from the "Examining Engineer" and originally from Alko. In fairness we only have the OP's version of events, and perhaps some other important information has not been included which might explain the comments.

But based on the reported comments, I would have no confidence in the competence of an examining engineer who suggested a 1Kg overload was enough to catastrophically fail a caravan chassis component.

From the history of comments on PCF relating to axle problems, it seems that Alko's first and only response without any inspection or verifiable evidence is "the axle must have been overloaded"

Now it is important to understand that "Overloaded" does not have to mean the axle has carried more mass than its is designed for, it mean the axle has experienced a load in excess of its stated capacity caused by the dynamic forces caused by the accelerations of towing.

The problem with this assertion is that no one can prove it one way or the other unless tha trailer is fitted with calibrated measuring devices recording the applied loads. It also fails to even consider the possibility that one or more components used in the axle could have been sub standard, or incorrectly fitted.

As many of you may recall I have previously reported the results of test a company I worked for where the accelerations of towing over such a surface at MIRA Nuneaton inside a caravan peaked around 2 to 4G on normal road surfaces with and on Belgian Parve peaks in the order of 8 to 9G.

A chassis manufacturer should know about the effects of road surfaces and how the loads on a chassis are affected by dynamic loads caused even by good road conditions. It is inconceivable that a chassis component would be classed as satisfactory up to its static limit and it would fail if the limit was statically over loaded by as little as 1%. Such a product would fail the test of being fit for purpose.

 

[toad a caravan]

I know from previously being employed by a national trailer company that quality of components is of critical importance,with regard to the rubber cords fitted.A very enthusiastic technician checked for correct hardness,diameter and profile of each roll of rubber before being put into production,this resulted in a fair amount being rejected.

 

[Hutch]

A great result for KJF 400. Many thanks for the comprehensive update.
I believe Swift do issue for a price an upgrade weight plate showing a higher MTLPM for those who need more load allowance and have the vehicle that can cope. So to say this caravan was only within 1 kgs of its limit must be a concern
We know from past threads AL-ko attach a weight load stamp to every axle they sell.
My TA at an MTPLM of 1698kgs has two axles each quoted at 1000kgs. So there is a margin in my case.
Also how on earth can any of us be expected to factor differing loads from one side to the other? If such data is crucial surely Swift or Al-ko should tell us the figures.

I have the Riche, weight scales that can check Upto 4 wheels, so I can check how much weight either side of my caravan or car is carrying when checked.

Or dare I say it the weight on the jockey wheel, Not the weight on the tow hitch, which is easily calculated, but NOT after a half bottle of Merlot.

 

[Tomalpine4]

We have an Alpine 4 and the axel was worn out, I was quoted over £1200 for replacing. I found a company in Scotland what repairs them,So I stripped the axel off and they collect and drop back off. www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk. Brilliant service .

 

[Dustydog]

I have the Riche, weight scales that can check Upto 4 wheels, so I can check how much weight either side of my caravan or car is carrying when checked.

Or dare I say it the weight on the jockey wheel, Not the weight on the tow hitch, which is easily calculated, but NOT after a half bottle of Merlot.

What about after a full bottle🤪🤪

 

[otherclive]

We have an Alpine 4 and the axel was worn out, I was quoted over £1200 for replacing. I found a company in Scotland what repairs them,So I stripped the axel off and they collect and drop back off. www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk. Brilliant service .

At one time Alko did used to repair axles, but no longer offer that service. But the replacement axles from Alko are fully fitted with brake assemblies. What was the price including transport frame and transportation for your axle to be repaired.

 

[Buckman]

Surely when a trailer is bouncing along the roads the stresses exceed a lot more than 1kg and possibly stresses to the equivalent of 100 or more kg. I am not an engineer, but those are my thoughts.

 

[KJF400]

At one time Alko did used to repair axles, but no longer offer that service. But the replacement axles from Alko are fully fitted with brake assemblies. What was the price including transport frame and transportation for your axle to be repaired.

They were going to charge me @£1500 to have it fitted.

 

[Dustydog]

At one time Alko did used to repair axles, but no longer offer that service. But the replacement axles from Alko are fully fitted with brake assemblies. What was the price including transport frame and transportation for your axle to be repaired.

I expect the materials and labour cost of stripping down the original and rebuilding exceeds the cost of a whole assembly straight off the line.

 

[otherclive]

I expect the materials and labour cost of stripping down the original and rebuilding exceeds the cost of a whole assembly straight off the line.

That’s the conclusion I came to plus couldn’t contemplate it as DIY.

 

[Raywood]

Glad it is sorted but the engineers suggestions look more an excuse than fact. I cannot see that an overload limit of 1kg would be accepted as reasonable at law. There should be more tolerance than that.