On my last caravan I had an alko hitch but on the new van I have a normal hitch.My dilema is do I fork out for a Alko3004 or do I buy an attachment for the swan neck tow bar to use the stabiliser bar.Are there any pros and cons for the two types of stabiliser.Would like your views on them before I make a decision.
Alko 3004 v 200Q Stabiliser bar
- Thread starter Aberdarian
- Start date
In theory, a well designed stabiliser bar should work as well as a stabiliser which is integrated in the coupling. However, the stabiliser bar requires care in setting up correctly so that it does what it's supposed to, it's exposed more to the elements and it is a lot less convenient to use. The undeniable advantage of the stabiliser bar is price and it can be used together with a greased towball, which may be an issue if you also have a trailer in addition to the caravan and it is not fitted with an integrated stabiliser. It's your choice, but I would go for the AlKo 3004.
Hi
Yeah must agree with lutz go for the Alko , mind i am surprised your new van doesnt have a Alko or Winterhoff fitted as standard.
Dougie...
Yeah must agree with lutz go for the Alko , mind i am surprised your new van doesnt have a Alko or Winterhoff fitted as standard.
Dougie...
Even after a couple of replies which I'm thankful for Alko is the way,Srri dougie I said new van but it 2000 model but it new for me if you see what I mean and thls Val order going into Waudbys now and Lutz thks for your informative post as well.
Glad to help Taffy. We're going to replace our old Alko hitch, and had been looking around for prices.
Go for the bracket for the bar. I have just gone back to the bar as i had an AKS 3004 alko on and have gone back to using the bar becasue the aks did not stop the caravan from swaying even when a car passed on the motorway. I have changed the pads and even changed the towball. It did not make any difference. Stick to the bar stabiliser.
A bar can be as effective as, but never more effective than, an integrated stabiliser. This is because there are limits to the degree of frictional damping that the stabiliser provides and these are specified in ISO Standard 11555-1. These are the criteria to which the industry works and any increase in damping over what is specified in the standard can result in material failure, in particular of the towcar underbody structure. It is also the reason why a bar stabiliser must not be combined with an integrated one. It would invalidate any warranty. A frictional stabiliser can only be safely combined with an electronic one as the latter does not increase forces acting on the towball.
hi all
Interesting points made there by Lutz while there is no doubt he knows all the technical data and specifications on the subject and his views are to be taken as correct, there are other factors however one should take into consideration when choosing the stabilising criteria you decide is best for your own outfit.
For me the its the blade every time as the mechanical spring of the blade does assist the dampening effect on "up and down" movement of the hitch allways trying to return the hitch to its set angle. the alko however only grips the ball so restricts the movement only there is no return effect employed.
Also as mentioned earlier keeping the pads/ball spotless can be a real pain if other trailers are used with the tow car. personally I use both mainly because the alko was on the van when we bought it and the alko hitch lock is a decent bit of kit and was specified by the insurance. however as a stand alone stabiliser it's not for me sorry.
I have had discussions before on this subject on the forum but never got a satisfactory answer as to why the extra blade would/could cause problems with the cars under body fixings either, as both stabilisers are set at aprox 35kg so the force employed by both is exactly the same and not doubled .
last year when the car was under repair after it mishap the tow bar was removed to effect repairs inspected and replaced with new bolts/locknuts the under body and bar was in perfect condition despite having been part of the impact they are tougher than you expect.
I have been employing this system for the last 4years since obtaning the van with no ill effects but with some benefits in how the van feels under tow. Lutz may be justified in mentioning the warranty aspect of this but as both car and van are now well past any warranty issues it is not of any consern well not to me anyway
colin.
Interesting points made there by Lutz while there is no doubt he knows all the technical data and specifications on the subject and his views are to be taken as correct, there are other factors however one should take into consideration when choosing the stabilising criteria you decide is best for your own outfit.
For me the its the blade every time as the mechanical spring of the blade does assist the dampening effect on "up and down" movement of the hitch allways trying to return the hitch to its set angle. the alko however only grips the ball so restricts the movement only there is no return effect employed.
Also as mentioned earlier keeping the pads/ball spotless can be a real pain if other trailers are used with the tow car. personally I use both mainly because the alko was on the van when we bought it and the alko hitch lock is a decent bit of kit and was specified by the insurance. however as a stand alone stabiliser it's not for me sorry.
I have had discussions before on this subject on the forum but never got a satisfactory answer as to why the extra blade would/could cause problems with the cars under body fixings either, as both stabilisers are set at aprox 35kg so the force employed by both is exactly the same and not doubled .
last year when the car was under repair after it mishap the tow bar was removed to effect repairs inspected and replaced with new bolts/locknuts the under body and bar was in perfect condition despite having been part of the impact they are tougher than you expect.
I have been employing this system for the last 4years since obtaning the van with no ill effects but with some benefits in how the van feels under tow. Lutz may be justified in mentioning the warranty aspect of this but as both car and van are now well past any warranty issues it is not of any consern well not to me anyway
colin.
No, Colin, two stabilisers working in parallel doubles the torque resistance between car and caravan and hence also potentially doubles the forces in the towbar. It's rather like a hinge held together with a nut and a bolt. The tighter the nut the stiffer the hinge and hence also more effort is required to operate the hinge.colin-yorkshire said:
The alko works in both ways up and down longatude and lateral side to side as the blade dose not.
Depending on how it's designed, a blade stabiliser can also dampen pitching motion.forest gump said:
yes Lutz the resitance is doubled but only up to 35kg when both or either lose the ability to resist the forceLutz said:
once it becomes greater than either can resist ie @35 kg both willl move at the same rate this does not mean the total force required to move both in unison would be 70kg that is the point surely like using your hinge senario fitting 4 hinges on a door instead of 2 does not make the door harder to operate.
plus the alko grips the ball but the bar tries to twist the bracket plate ie in two different places true the force exerted is intitialy on the ball bolts and then onto the bar fixings but as the bolts are high tensile and over capacity this should not be a problem
towbars and fixings are also underated by aleast a 1/3 to give a safe working load, my bar for example is rated at 1500kg SWL so the fixings and underbody should be similar, the max tow weight of the car is 1175kg but the total MTPLM of the van is 1051kg.
all of this weight is pulled off the same bolts and fixings so I don't see how a extra 35kg torque is going to be a problem.
Just to come back to this, the reason why we're fitting a new Alko 3004 is that in September 2008, coming back from France, we discovered that we couldn't get our Alko hitchlock back on the hitch after putting the van back into storage. My partner found one of the bolt heads was obstructing it, and on examining the bolt was horrified when he was able to pull it out of the hitch. It had sheered half way into the hitch - both halves remained, but had obviously moved, and there was considerable wear on the bolt adjacent to the sheer. Fortunately we'd driven back with the hitchlock on (I know, some don't recommend it) so fortunately the bolts hadn't been able to work loose, otherwise it may have been a completely different story.
We stripped the hitch, and the other bolt was also failing in the middle, with a lot of wear, but no shearing. We were rather busy after that holiday, and simply replaced the bolts with new bolts from Alko in about April/May the following year before we used the van again. Our local dealer said that he had never seen anything like it before. We did intend to take it up with Alko, but unfortunately never got around to it. I did post a warning on this forum, at the time, for everyone to check their Alko towhitch bolts.
Last year, on a different towcar, we had problems with 'knocking' from the hitch. Eventually this was solved when the (brand new) towbar fittings, under the car itself, were discovered not to have been torqued up properly - again, the saga was posted on this forum somewhere. However, our Alko hitch is now 11 years old, has had failed bolts once, needs a new hitchlock, is becoming increasingly difficult to unhitch due to wear on the mechanism, and has done (we reckon) around 55,000 towed miles, over 11 years. We've been through four different towcars in that time, and four different new towbars, so have decided that this time we'll replace the hitch!
We stripped the hitch, and the other bolt was also failing in the middle, with a lot of wear, but no shearing. We were rather busy after that holiday, and simply replaced the bolts with new bolts from Alko in about April/May the following year before we used the van again. Our local dealer said that he had never seen anything like it before. We did intend to take it up with Alko, but unfortunately never got around to it. I did post a warning on this forum, at the time, for everyone to check their Alko towhitch bolts.
Last year, on a different towcar, we had problems with 'knocking' from the hitch. Eventually this was solved when the (brand new) towbar fittings, under the car itself, were discovered not to have been torqued up properly - again, the saga was posted on this forum somewhere. However, our Alko hitch is now 11 years old, has had failed bolts once, needs a new hitchlock, is becoming increasingly difficult to unhitch due to wear on the mechanism, and has done (we reckon) around 55,000 towed miles, over 11 years. We've been through four different towcars in that time, and four different new towbars, so have decided that this time we'll replace the hitch!
Four hinges instead of two do make a door stiffer to operate.colin-yorkshire said:
The issue concerning potential material failure refers to the vehicle underbody structure (sheet metal) rather than the towbar and its attachment, which, after all, is the responsibility of the towbar, not the car manufacturer. The car manufacturer has to provide a product suitable for all driving conditions, including significant amounts of towing over unsurfaced roads, for example. This will be reflected in the terms of the warranty. One must not confuse the static load with dynamic loads, which can easily peak at 10 times the static load, if only for fractions of a second.
Right folks just had the Alko3004 delivered is there any pitfalls for fitting one that anyone knows about and is it easy for a novice like me fitting what is an important piece of equipment.
Damien is the one to reply to this - he's a caravan engineer! That was quick delivery Taffy - did you get it from Waudby's? We haven't ordered ours yet - March was a 'BIG BILLS' month so we had to hold off until the coffers were replenished!
Hope Damien sees this then Val........Yes ordered fromWaudys at 9am yesterday paid for next day delivery and here by 11.30 am this morning good service indeed.
I'm glad to hear that Taffy (my Dad was a Taffy, by the way, from 'The Valleys'!, and a miner to boot)!
Hi Everyone
I dont dispute anything said in any of the above posts but the fact remains if your van and car are a good match in terms of the weight ratio, and the van is loaded correctly, ie heavy items low down and over the axle etc. then there is no need for a stabiliser as the van will be stable.
A well matched and correctly loaded outfit that is well driven should not get in a situation where a stabiliser is required.
I dont dispute anything said in any of the above posts but the fact remains if your van and car are a good match in terms of the weight ratio, and the van is loaded correctly, ie heavy items low down and over the axle etc. then there is no need for a stabiliser as the van will be stable.
A well matched and correctly loaded outfit that is well driven should not get in a situation where a stabiliser is required.
Correct, but the emphasis is on "should not get in a situation ....." etc. Let's face it, we are all human beings with our failures now and again. Even if it's not your fault, chances are that you will be faced with an unexpected situation at some time and you are unable to react accordingly. It's nice to know that you have an additional safety margin in the form of a stabiliser.Whittakerr said:
Just a follow-up to this - we managed to buy our Alko AKS 3004 from Go-Outdoors for even less than the Waudby's price. They have a 'We'll match the price and save you 10% over a genuine competitor's price....................' offer. Well, Waudby's price was £229.00 - and Go Outdoors was £299.00 - so we went along to Go Outdoors armed with the Waudby's webpage - and they let us have the Alko 3004 Triple Pack for £206.10 - Waudby's price minus the £22.90 - 10% saving! To take advantage of this you require a Go Outdoors discount card, which we have anyway.
This is way cheaper than we've seen anywhere else, either at a dealers, or on-line.
This is way cheaper than we've seen anywhere else, either at a dealers, or on-line.
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