Alko ATC - Questions

[Gagakev]

As per heading;
How does this work ?
Assuming it needs a power suppIy is it wired to the normal 13 pin plug ?
Would I need modifications to the tow Vehicle wiring?
Do you have to use it , (if it's fitted than I suppose why not)
Is it prone to go wrong and can you tow if it goes wrong?

Thanks folks.

 

[Sproket]

Kev

Have a read of this

https://youtu.be/YpOTWjPmyCw

 

[Dustydog]

Kev
Are you sure you want something else that could go wrong?
A fused live feed , not via the ignition switch , runs through the 13 pin plug and socket.
As soon as you plug in the system goes through a self check cycle and the green light comes on. All is well.
Is it worth having?
I may have felt it act once in 8 years due to a heavy sudden cross wind .
I'd say it's like a match. It only works when struck.
Would I be without it?
No.
It is a retrofit.? Yes. But being the repairer of repairers you should find it easy.

 

[Gagakev]

Kev

Have a read of this

]https://youtu.be/YpOTWjPmyCw

https://youtu.be/YpOTWjPmyCw[/quote
Thanks Sprocket, very informative

 

[Gagakev]

Kev
Are you sure you want something else that could go wrong?
A fused live feed , not via the ignition switch , runs through the 13 pin plug and socket.
As soon as you plug in the system goes through a self check cycle and the green light comes on. All is well.
Is it worth having?
I may have felt it act once in 8 years due to a heavy sudden cross wind .
I'd say it's like a match. It only works when struck.
Would I be without it?
No.
It is a retrofit.? Yes. But being the repairer of repairers you should find it easy.

Is the live feed already there or will it have to be added, cheers Dusty.
It wont be a retofit on current van as I have at present had no issues withthe longer drawbar,

 

[Damian]

No, you don't need an extra feed, it is fed from pin 9 (if I remember correctly) which is the permanent live already fitted.

 

[L12nee]

just got a jeep to tow my compass and the power was there in my 13 pin so would think so if wired correct

 

[ProfJohnL]

ATC along with other stabilisers are one of those things that you should not need, provided you do everything else absolutely rights. They are there "just in case" and like Dusty I will give you an analogy with the cars seat belts. You could drive without them and in fact we should not need them, but we all know using a set belt make sense (apart from the fact we have to by law these days).

Unlike the typical alko friction stabilizer which is always adding resistance to movement and you can often feel this when maneuvering, The ATC and other manufacturers equivalent are a bit different. They have no effect until a sensors detect an abnormal motion which then triggers te4h system to introduce a corrective action. So most of the time you have no idea that it's there.

A few people think that if you have any of these systems fitted it allows you to exceed safe working limits of loading or driving, because the systems will keep things in control. That is woefully wrong, as you should always aim to have a naturally safe outfit, and only consider these devices a belt and braces.

 

[Dustydog]

Spot on Prof.
Having only had one application in 8 years I know it does work. As you say it's just in case.
Tyron bands ? Waste of money imo.

 

[Thedoog]

There is also the benefit of discount on your insurance, we get 10% from
the cc

Steve

 

[ProfJohnL]

Spot on Prof.
...
Tyron bands ? Waste of money imo.

Don't start me otherwise we'll end up with another nose LOAD type debate... But I totally agree with you about tyre bands................ :huh:

 

[muso68]

I recently bought Lunar Quasar and discovered i had ATC fitted on my Lunar (the previous owner didnt know it, or the tyron bands were on there)
From what Ive read, the issues with ATC tend to be about the fused permanent live feed for the ATC from the towing socket. If its not right, then the ATC can cause problems.
I had to uprade from a single 7 pin socket anyway, so went for a 13 pin socket, with a "smart" relay system and a 25amp fuse for the 2 feeds. To my relief the ATC works perfectly.

 

[waffler]

Like everything they can go wrong. I meet regularly with many caravaners and have only heard of 2 problems. The LED that shows its status can fail. (My dealer tells me this has only happened in the last 12 months.) It still works without the LED. and you can hear it check itself. The other is total failure when it just does not work. (There is instruction in the book what to do.) I would not be without it especially on roads that undulate as it stops possible pitching.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

especially on roads that undulate as it stops possible pitching.

I thought ATC only controls yawing NOT pitching by breaking one wheel only.
hmy:

 

[Hutch]

I have all the faith in the ATC system, I think I posted earlier, but when my towbar and 13 pin socket was fitted as new by Hyundai, they failed to fit the earth to the chassie. This caused the ATC not to work, so had to do it myself, a great help.
Does What it says on the packet.

 

[waffler]

The ATC measures acceleration in 3 directions and if it exceeds a predetermined value brakes are applied. It is used disconnected from the brakes in the tow car of the year tests to measure stability behind the different cars.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have all the faith in the ATC system, I think I posted earlier, but when my towbar and 13 pin socket was fitted as new by Hyundai, they failed to fit the earth to the chassie. This caused the ATC not to work, so had to do it myself, a great help.
Does What it says on the packet.

Hello Hutch,

ATC and similar systems are one of those devises that you should not need, but its good to have when you unintentionally over step the mark. It should not be considered a driving aid to make what is an unstable out fit drivable. Therefore if you are finding ATC "a great help" then it suggests you may be not loading or driving safely

 

[Dustydog]

especially on roads that undulate as it stops possible pitching.

I thought ATC only controls yawing NOT pitching by breaking one wheel only.
hmy:

I'm not entirely sure WC.
There is an indication in the ATC blurb that it detects a pitch before the snake.
ie the pitch can cause a snake.
In eight years I've only felt it come on once.
That was in a severe hidden unforeseen crosswind as we came out of a cutting.
If I felt it working regularly then as The Prof says there must be something wrong with the loading.

 

[ProfJohnL]

When a trailer experiences instability it will involve pitching, roll and yaw motions. to accurately identify the motion as instability the ATC system will need detectors that will enable it to differentiate it from other 'normal' motions. I guess that the ATC systems needs sensors that can detect in three orthogonal directions to make that determination.

Just because it can detect three axis of motion, does not mean it acts in three directions of motion.

 

[00buzz]

ours kicks in routinely when negotiating 'mini' roundabouts, having not come to complete stop. this would seem to indicate that 'pitch' has a significant impact on its operation.......

 

[ProfJohnL]

ours kicks in routinely when negotiating 'mini' roundabouts, having not come to complete stop. this would seem to indicate that 'pitch' has a significant impact on its operation.......

I never suggested that pitching would not cause the ATC to engage, only that the ATC acts on the wheels an that will have most effect on a yaw motion.

I'm not sure a mini roundabout will induce pitch unless you are driving over it rather than round it! Just for clarity Pitch is a nodding motion forwards and backwards, Roll is rocking from sid to side, and yaw is the caravan turning left and rights about its axle.

 

[NigelHutson]

There'll also be lateral yaw in the mini-roundabout situation. Let's assume it's in the UK, so turning right at a mini-roundabout. If there isn't room to negotiate the roundabout without the caravan crossing it, (especially one where there's a hump in the centre), then even before the caravan hits the hump, the right turn will induce a certain amount of yaw, but then as the caravan's offside wheel(s) hit the hump, that will suddenly increase the yaw, and possibly to the point of activating the ATC (if going fast enough).

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

ours kicks in routinely when negotiating 'mini' roundabouts, having not come to complete stop. this would seem to indicate that 'pitch' has a significant impact on its operation.......

May I ask what indicators you have in you car to tell you the ATC is activating routinely, light/buzzer? If nothing, could it be you are feeling the overrun brakes and/or geometry of the outfit pushing on tight corners?

 

[martindf3]

I have all the faith in the ATC system, I think I posted earlier, but when my towbar and 13 pin socket was fitted as new by Hyundai, they failed to fit the earth to the chassie. This caused the ATC not to work, so had to do it myself, a great help.
Does What it says on the packet.

Hello Hutch,

ATC and similar systems are one of those devises that you should not need, but its good to have when you unintentionally over step the mark. It should not be considered a driving aid to make what is an unstable out fit drivable. Therefore if you are finding ATC "a great help" then it suggests you may be not loading or driving safely

The other week , my wife took over on our way to Norfolk . I think its the A14 we were on ,she is quite new to towing a Caravan , but has towed our boat to the beach and back a lot . Back to the point , she was driving at about 58 mph down one of the dips and I think she moved the wheel or wobbled it , the caravan got a sway on . I just sat there until she said what do I do ,she was going with the swing I think ,I was about to grab the wheel and the BPW chassis ITC came on followed by the VW ABS coming on , Result car slowed and van slowed and swing ( driver induced I think ) stopped . Full marks to her she carried on another 100 miles at a slightly reduced speed and has since towed her share down M6/M5 without loosing her confidence . I've had it come on with me a couple of times ,once on a really rough road at about 10mph (Emarald Caravan site ) The other was on a crosswind battered M62 ,bottom of the dip and a break in the Armco ,I felt the Van brakes applying even though I was on the throttle . Nice to have it fitted, glad it was fitted when my wife had a moment .

 

[chrisn7]

Like everything they can go wrong. I meet regularly with many caravaners and have only heard of 2 problems. The LED that shows its status can fail. (My dealer tells me this has only happened in the last 12 months.) It still works without the LED. and you can hear it check itself. .

There have been a number of posts in the forums about LED failure. Although things may have changed since my 2011 van, I imagine the kit is the same. There is quite a long 2-wire sleeved lead from the LED to a 2 pin connector, after which 2 unsleeved wires disappear into the main harness on their way to the ATC unit.
Now the 2 pin connector is the same as that fitted to the solar panel connection by the battery, and it is not a waterproof type. It is in a very exposed position and subject to everything road conditions can throw at it.

This cabling is near to the main gas line from the from the front locker, where there is a cut-out for the gas line to pass through, which is easily large enough to feed the 2 pin connector through into the front locker, where it be safely tie-wrapped to the line out of the way of being snagged, and away from the elements.

There is still sufficient cable to leave enough slack under the van to lift the A frame fairing for access/maintenance, if a couple of P clips are used to prevent a low loop.