All Dogs Must Be On Leads, why is this sign so often ignored?

[JonnyG]

Quote " would surely stick out like a sore thumb and make easy target for the boys in blue,?"

What "Boys in Blue"??
Unless you have been on another planet the number of "Boys in Blue" hasd been severely reduced and I want them dealing with serious crime, not running around after some owner whose dog is not muzzled.

Get real,,,for goodness sake.

!!!! the boys in blue know there is a high link of drivers of uninsured cars to crime,err criminal activities taking place.So what do you think the likelyhood is of the same thing applying to the small number of people who
wouldnt muzzle their dogs in public being from the same group of people. "get real" clearly i am!

 

[Damian]

Quote " the boys in blue know there is a high link of drivers of uninsured cars to crime,err criminal activities taking place."

What on earth has that statement got to do with muzzling dogs??????????

I think you maybe should step away from the wine bottle.

 

[trucker]

]There are alot of people which are dagerous as well as dogs, cats horses, cows, do you want them all muzzled as well, me thinks your on a wind up again,
just go to no dog sites, that should keep your fear of rabid dog packs waiting to pounce on you at bay

Kev

I was reading this subject with interest, my dogs are very often off their leads whilst out walking as are most along the cannal path in Tiverton but when were away in the caravan we respect the rules, It was a good subject till some one posts a thread just to wind others up.

So mullsy why should my dogs be muzzled?????????????
quote=JonnyG

why should dogs out in public not be muzzled unless its against their doggie rights! they are animals and some have the potential to be of danger to not only other dogs and animals but people. "Sorry" doesnt cut it for me when somebodies dog attacks another child or even grown up and such sayings as "its never done that before or it must have been privocted"! doesnt cut it for me either.
not sure if it would cut it for you if your child or grand child was attacked in the open by somebody elses dog, who,s owner had also took the stance of "why should i muzzle my dogs" prior to the attack.....
So how about you telling me why a dog should not be muzzled in public areas? you know for the protection of all our children ?
[/quote]

 

[seth1]

Gybe im not refering to anyone as an idiot,but the truth stays,the last two occasions on a campsite have been greeted with dog poo on my pitch.Not amusing at all when my 18month daughter is playing in it.Kids will always take priority over an animal.An animal is just that,a child is a child.No dog is 100%safe no matter how well you know it,theres always the unknown with them. Dogs can and do interperiate things differently.

 

[JonnyG]

Quote " the boys in blue know there is a high link of drivers of uninsured cars to crime,err criminal activities taking place."

What on earth has that statement got to do with muzzling dogs??????????

I think you maybe should step away from the wine bottle.

!!!!!!!! really are you seriously asking me to explain criminal activity to you? you brought up what a waste of time and police
resources it would be if they were to go chasing mere owners of un muzzled dogs rather than REAL CRIMINALS except alot of the unmuzzled dogs would belong to that group,
and kindly refrain from flaming if you cannot respond in a decent manor the do not repond.........or learn how to hold your alcohol like the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gybe]

Have I stumbled across Practical Caravans annual 'Wind Up Weekend' as I've never come across such a load of B S about dogs ?

I've never been a dog lover and I didn't grow up around dogs. My wife had her first dog when I met her and I trained that dog as it was young and a little wayward. I knew how I wanted the dog to behave and trained it by trial and error and reading up on dog training. We've had 6 other dogs during our 35 years together and never had the behaviour or worries described here.
Our brother and sister pairing now would never be able to do what they do with the crackpot muzzling idea! I hate being licked by dogs and ours just don't do that, and they know better than going near cow or horse dung. They were trained from tiny puppies.

A trained guide dog being let off the leash to run free by people who don't normally handle it just shows why some people should never own dogs and how irresponsible and lacking in knowledge of dogs some people are. Just makes shows they are unfit to comment on dog behaviour or care.
Campsite dog walking areas for many people are just a lazy option, most dogs need far more excercise than a wander around a small corner of a campsite or a wander around the block at home. If dogs get proper excercise they rarely if ever get in to any mischief.
It seems the beef here is that dogs worry some non dog owning people and they've seen the odd problem on campsites. We've had balls hit our caravan, awning and cars numerous times, kids hit the car and us on bikes and scooter affairs. I also had the irate parents of a very annoying loud thug ten year old go phsyco as I drove over his radio controlled car that he drove under our Disco

( What a top result that was, completely accidental and the kids own fault) We've had incidents involving kites a trip to A&E for my wife as kids flooded the floor of the washroom. She came out of the shower and slipped on the slippery wet tile floor and hit her head badly. I also twisted my back when I stepped on a kids skateboard left outside site reception office. Noise from adults and kids and their various gadgets beat dog noise by a country mile. Plenty of other things I could beef about. Dogs are the least of any problems. Our dogs don't allways come with us in he caravan and if dogs were truly a big problem I think we'd have noticed by now.
We don't tend to sit around the pitch most of the time we're away in the caravan, it could be that we just have better things to do with our time rather than sit and pick on dogs and their owners

 

[Parksy]

Oh dear, I ought to have known that any topic concerning dogs would have forum members attacking each other like erm... mad dogs

(shooting self in foot icon thingy)

Having a dog which is not on a lead is not a criminal activitiy and never will be unless it is out of control or dangerous, it is however selfish and rude to expect everybody on a caravan site to turn a blind eye and to put up with condescending platitudes about the dog being harmless.

Whatever ones views about muzzling dogs may be (and I'm not in favour of it personally, and neither is my o/h as long as the dog is on a lead) if a byelaw was was introduced which made the muzzling of all dogs compulsory when they were outside the problem would be made worse than it already is.

This is because 95% of responsible dog owners would obey the rules and muzzle their dogs and keep them on leads when on a campsite, but those self same people who continue to ignore the signs which state that all dogs must be on leads would also ignore rules concerning muzzling their dogs. This would then render the dogs belonging to the responsible owners even more vulnerable to attack by other dogs not on leads or muzzled.
I just wish that site owners would do more to encourage the obeyance of the site rules that already exist, namely that dogs must be on leads.
Those who ignore the rules ought to be asked to leave the site, but this never happens. Instead, the person who complains to site operators or wardens about dogs is the one who is seen as intolerant or odd in some way.

 

[Parksy]

Have only just seen the previous post.........

It seems the beef here is that dogs worry some non dog owning people and they've seen the odd problem on campsites.

No it's not, the guy who wrote the magazine letter is a dog owner who'se dog is now blind in one eye after an attack by a dog free to roam on a campsite instead of it being on a lead as it should have been.
The dog which was attacked was on a lead, the point, which appears to be being missed here, is that the person who obeyed the rules with his dog was the injured party.
If the rules had been followed by all concerned the incident wouldn't have happened.

 

[Gybe]

I was referring to subsequent posts after your original post Parksy.
I would be wild if one of our dogs were attacked in the same way. But is it not a regular occurence that those who abide by th rules are generally the ones who get hurt. There are plenty of cases of wayward children in the wrong places on camping sites. Playing with water seems to be a favourite pastime for some of the little rescals. My wife ended up in hospital,A &E, for ten days she was unable to partake in the activities we had planned and paid for.
Taking it out of campimg and caravanning I was rear ended by a married woman driving her husbands car, the accident caused chaos and then involved three weeks of tow car hire. The woman driver was not actuall married to her partner so she wasn't 'Mrs X' at all, so she wasn't actually insured. We abide by driving insurance laws but the woman has costs us money, many dozens of hours of phone calls and correspondence time over three years and a threat from the insurer middle men that we would be taken to court for our hire car charges.
I don't expect all women drivers too be banned from driving, get muzzled or take a lie test as they give insurance and name details. Nor do I expect all children to be locked in the caravan or chained to their parents on sites.

 

[Parksy]

I've never seen any signs on campsites which state that children must be chained to their parents (I'm just not going there about muzzled women, my o/h reads this

) but there are lots of signs stating that all dogs must be on a lead and it's the ones who ignore this rule, and there's always at least one, that get on my nerves.
If it had been a dog of mine that was attacked by a dog not on a lead costing an estimated £1000 or more in vets bills I would be making a claim against the sites insurance because the site operators should insist that dog owners obeyed the rules of the site.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

well now boys calm down a bit, we have had bad dogs bad kids and bad owners and bad parents plus speeding on site all we need now is a couple of comments about windbreaks drunken parties and people crossing your pitch and we have just about covered everything that winds people up on a site.

I have a simple solution, if you dont have a dog go to sites that are dog free, if you dont have kids go to a site thats adult only, if you see something on site thats not right "COMPLAIN" if the owner or wardens ignore the complaint remind them of the rules and there duty of care,
and if nothing is done dont go there again, it works for us, we no longer have a dog and all the kids are grown up, reading all the previous posts it seems we are doing something right as as we have not encountered any of the problems that other posters report,

site rules are site rules and thats it, it does not matter wether it's dogs or kids causing problems report it, and again and again until something is done about it,

 

[Gagakev]

Interesting. In a campsite the dog stays on a lead (apart from the occaisional escape from the awning). On a campsite dog walk, if there is a sign; the dog stays on the lead. But at home I walk her at a local nature reserve. There I let her off the lead (as do other dog walkers) and allow her to enjoy playing with other loose dogs. I have always thought of it as an important part of her socialisation. We are working hard at not going to people and she is now very good at it (provided they ignore her). Maybe this is the wrong approach?
mel

Hi Mel no dont think it is the wrong approch, it's just me being over protective!!
I also when at home on familiar terriortory and with other dogs he know's let him off the lead, just seems to happen when we are away!!

 

[Gybe]

No Parksy. But there are plenty of rules and signs about play areas and plenty of rules and signs about children not playing in wash rooms. It's also the Law/Rule that you are insured and driving insured under the correct name.
Our daughter paid a £4300 vet bill last week and we know enough about vet bills ourselves. A dog left blinded and a 1k bill is terrible and terribly sad for the dog and its owner, if we added up the all the costs of my wifes fall caused because of children breaking the site rules and the parents not having their children under control tha would trump the £1k vet bill by far. Trip to A&E, X-ray, loss of activities we paid for, time off work and cost to her employer and also the cost of a scan and doctors because of the headaches and dizziness that continued for months after the accident.
I'd estimate that my wifes time of work cost her employer over 15k, NHS bills easily in excess of 2K. With our own cost the bill would easilY total over 20K,

The same as the dog incident, rules broken cost a lot of money and heartache.

 

[TonyG]

On the other side of the coin, we have a small white bichion Frisse, that is always on a lead. but i have lost count of the times when out walking, that children have just run up to her and started stroking her. and trying to pick her up. she is 12 years old ,and fortunatley she is as soft as a brush and just puts up with it... but what about if she did snap at someone, who was forcing themselves on her... i suppose it would be my fault !!!

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

On the other side of the coin, we have a small white bichion Frisse, that is always on a lead. but i have lost count of the times when out walking, that children have just run up to her and started stroking her. and trying to pick her up. she is 12 years old ,and fortunatley she is as soft as a brush and just puts up with it... but what about if she did snap at someone, who was forcing themselves on her... i suppose it would be my fault !!!

hi TonyG, it would not if you issue a verbal warning first, as anyone approaches the dog, say in a loud voice "don't go near the dog it bites" that will stop 99.9% in their tracks.. there will however be the .01% that doesn't but thats up to them as it is probably the same ones that cannot resist touching the fence beside seeing the big red sign "ELECTRIC FENCE" Lol

 

[Martin24]

So you've done that as well have you Colin!! Ouch it does tingle a bit doesn't it!!

 

[JonnyG]

Hang on a minute children are children so why are people talking as if they were adults who should know better?
Too much passing of the buck going on here as adults WE are the responsibles ones and its our duty to keep children safe! First and
foremost. so colin no its not up to them "kids" its up to you me everybody! regardless!!!!!!!!!!!
. Err TonG yes i believe it would be you who would be responsible not the dog nor the child afterall you have lost count of the
times you have let children stroke her and try to pick her up! If she did turn and bite i wouldnt blame her but then i would not let that situation happen in the first place....

 

[Gybe]

Our dogs run free in our homes gardens and grounds Our boundary has fencing and wire mesh that is dug in to the ground and hedgerows. Our dogs are a detterent to anyone who fancied having a look around. Some of our dog warning signs had badly faded and weathered.
If you put up signs saying that your dog bites, or is fierce as you hope that will put off intruders you stand to be in trouble if the dog bites an intruder as you are letting a dangerous dog run loose. And that's in your own domain with an intruder who is tresspassuing and going to commit a crime. Our dogs bark a lot but would run a mile if a stranger came in the garden.

I doubt that it would be any good shouting a warning that a dog bites. In the prissy nimby wet UK we now live in, you'll be prosecuted if the dog bites someone who ignored the warning. You are saying that your dog is dangerous and you would be considered as not having it under control. Dog put down and you'll probably end up with a record and will not be able to keep a dog

 

[TonyG]

Hang on a minute children are children so why are people talking as if they were adults who should know better?
Too much passing of the buck going on here as adults WE are the responsibles ones and its our duty to keep children safe! First and
foremost. so colin no its not up to them "kids" its up to you me everybody! regardless!!!!!!!!!!!
. Err TonG yes i believe it would be you who would be responsible not the dog nor the child afterall you have lost count of the
times you have let children stroke her and try to pick her up! If she did turn and bite i wouldnt blame her but then i would not let that situation happen in the first place....

you are missing one other vital other person to blame... The Childrens parents !!!.... yes thoose people who allow thier children to run over to animals without first asking if it is OK for the child to stoke the dog

 

[Dustydog]

The common ground is the innocent always seem to become the vilain of the piece or the victim.
If this happened on one of the Club sites then I am afraid the owner of the offending dog should be banned from Club sites for life.
I understand the owner of the miscreant dog has offered to pay the vet bills but what about all the ancilliary extra costs, time off work to go the vets , fuel costs , never mind the pain and suffering of the now one eyed dog.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all,
couple of points on the discussion so far. Martin24 wrote "So you've done that as well have you Colin!! Ouch it does tingle a bit doesn't it!!" yes it does

although in my defence I was fishing at the time, and poked the Otter fence with the rear section of the carbon pole I was using? trouble was I dropped the pole on to my groin "made me eyes water that did"

Jonny G wrote" foremost. so colin no its not up to them "kids" its up to you me everybody! regardless!!!!!!!!!!!"
of course it BUT just ask yourself would the same kids run up to and try and pet and pickup a Rottweiler, doberman, or german shepherd, you know the answer, because the reputation of these breeds (unfounded or not) puts up a big neon sign "stay away"
however the "cuddly little balls of fluff on legs are a magnet for the petters and strokers, shouting a warning makes them think twice before approaching thats all. "and it does work" we had a little cairn terrier that was cuddly on the outside but a (tazmanian devil) on the inside hence her name "Taz" as soon as anyone or other dog approached her the hackles went up and the teeth came out. this and the warning put most off instantly. including other dogs.
a woman once approached us while out walking along the river at Bakewell " oh what a loverly little dog what it name "phycho" I said and she beat a haisty retreat.

 

[Damian]

OK,.this topic is now sinking into the personal attack situation which will not be allowed to continue.
Keep the personal stuff out of postings and stick to the original topic.

 

[otherclive]

Isn't it time to muzzle this thread as its sunk too low to really contribute to any real matters of value to caravanners. If I were a newbie looking for a good forum I think I'd be looking elsewhere.

 

[Damian]

I have removed all the postings relaing to the newspaper article as the topic had sunk into the now boring but usual personal insult stage between two users, and continued after my previous posting
This topic has nothing at all to do with the newspaper article, nothing at all to do with muzzling dogs.
It is about people who cannot read or abide by site rules relating to keeping dogs on leads.

Keep it on track, stop the stupid bickering and pathetic point scoring or the whole lot goes.

 

[Gybe]

I have removed all the postings relaing to the newspaper article as the topic had sunk into the now boring but usual personal insult stage between two users, and continued after my previous posting
This topic has nothing at all to do with the newspaper article, nothing at all to do with muzzling dogs.
It is about people who cannot read or abide by site rules relating to keeping dogs on leads.

Keep it on track, stop the stupid bickering and pathetic point scoring or the whole lot goes.

Fair comment Damian !

But seriously, is Practical Caravan Magazine a dog friendly publication with a dog friendly forum or not?
Dog owners would like to know.

The 'anti' views put forward here by some are not at all fair, sensible or correct by a long mark and not at all welcoming to caravanning dog owners visiting this site, nor welcoming for dog owners who are contemplating taking up caravanning. Dogs and Humans are not the same, but annoyance and danger come from both and human behavior can be far worse.

Seriously, I'd rather not spend my money on a publication that supports mis-information and aggression about and towards dogs and their owners, I'm also sure that plenty of other responsible dog owners feel the same.