Alternative to Frejus or Mont Blanc tunnels.

Apr 3, 2010
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Two weeks to go before the off and am looking at an alternative to either of the tunnels into Italy. My wife is pretty much terrified of long tunnels so looking to go round them so to speak. Have looked at the D1006 from Modane (to avoid the Frejus tunnel) - has anyone driven it with a caravan in tow; I don't have 4wd (Mondeo Estate 2.0 tdci and Avondale Dart 525). and it looks very steep after Vanois. Last year I went through the mountains in NW Spain and frightened the wife almost to death - my ears hurt for days! Appreciate any advice.
 
Aug 11, 2010
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Is this because you are heading solely to Italy? or are you doing some touring of France as well? great San Bernardo is a climb but i survived with the perforated ear drum its part tunnel part gallery and although they have put concrete sides up there is still daylight to be seen in most of it anyway. about 5km in total so is shorter than mont blanc about 11km and ashorter that freju about 12km
If you are solely heading for Italy there are other options but they are to the east,and wont fit in with a tour of France.
 
Apr 3, 2010
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We chose to travel down thru France as we are familiar with the roads after previous hols. We have ferry to Dunkirk from where we shall meander down thru Reims, Dijon, Turin (amongst others) avoding autoroutes. We try not to overplan as we shall prob stopover for a few days here and there depending upon the weather etc. We intend to come back thru Germany etc. As I said we don't overplan. Just that I don't fancy the long tunnels although I know that's quicker but shmbo is nervous about narrow mountain roads.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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Hi Graha.
I sympathise with you. I don't like tunnels overmuch myself and my wife is not keen on very mountainous roads. The following routes fit in with your wife's concerns.
I don't know if this is any help to you but we have travelled in/out of Italy by 2 different non-tunnel routes.
In 2006 we left travelled to the Lake Como area, We travelled by free autoroutes from Dunkerque down to Switzerland via France, Luxembourg and Belgium and then into France again. We then turned west just south of Nancy to take the N66 the the Ballon des Vosges mountains. The N66 is a good road through these relatively low mountains and it copes with gradients with long, easy hairpins. We then crossed into Germany and into Switzerland near Basle. We then took the Swiss autoroutes to the northern end of the St Gotthard Tunnel.
We had intended to take the tunnel but a puncture enroute meant that we arrived at the tunnel at tea time on the last Friday in July. At that time most of Europe seemed to be queued for the tunnel so we decided to take the St Gotthard Pass. The good quality road was not too steep or narrow. It descended to the summit by series of hairpins. and then there was a longish flattish "plateau" stretch at the summit of the pass before it descended again by long, hairpins. We were towing our Avondale Landranger twin-axke with a Vauxhall Monterey and it coped easily with the pass.
In 2007 we travelled to Italy using the St Gotthard Tunnel. On our way home, however, we had a breakdown which meant that we were towing our 'van with a hired tow car provided by Red Pennant insurance. The car, the largest they could provide in Italy, was a little underpowered for towing our 'van so we opted to take Brenner Pass Motorway from near Lake Garda into Austria. This was, of course a motorway and had no "scarey" bits.
Of course the Swiss one does require Swiss motorway vignettes for both the car and caravan and the Brenner motorway has a toll charge as well needing a motorway vignette. The Austrian vignette is only required for the car is much cheaper than the Swiss ones.. In addition both of these routes do include short tunnels/gallleries as that is the only way the roads can cross the mountainous terrain.
I hope these routes may be of some use to you.
Best wishes
Tim
 
Apr 3, 2010
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Thanks for your advice Tim but was hoping to stick to France/Italy on the way out and save the excitement of vignettes for the return trip. Might have to grit my teeth and take the Frejus tunnel. Still wondering about the D1006 from Modane near the start of the tunnel.
Have to make my mind up soon. I suppose I could come further south through Grenoble and then Briancon.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Grahamh said:
Thanks for your advice Tim but was hoping to stick to France/Italy on the way out and save the excitement of vignettes for the return trip. Might have to grit my teeth and take the Frejus tunnel. Still wondering about the D1006 from Modane near the start of the tunnel.
Have to make my mind up soon. I suppose I could come further south through Grenoble and then Briancon.

Graham
Two years ago we went through the Tunnel de Frejus. I am also not keen on long road tunnels but have to say it wasnot too bad. A bigger cause of stress is the price! Have you thought about the Mont Cenis Pass which is an alternative. I have not used it because it was still closed when we went through the tunnel. If you need a nice overnight near the Tunnel we liked this Municipal http://www.davidklyne.co.uk/camping_municipal_des_grand_cols.htm
David
 
Apr 3, 2010
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Aah yes, this is the D1006 from Modane which I asked about in my earlier post. Will I be able to use this route without 4wd? The map shows several winter sports venues along the way. Looks like a nicer option than the tunnel. Thanks
Graham
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I used the Mont Cenis Passs a couple of times some 23 years ago - not towing. Although the surface was a bit rough in places there were plenty of pull-off areas and no feeling of claustrophobia. Some reasonable scenery too. I seem to remember it was banned to HGVs. The CC Europe handbooks have a section on moutain passes so this may help too.
Try setting up a route on www.viamichelin.com and selecting the car and caravan option and see if they produce a route over the pass or advise you not to. just put in a couple of towns close to the ends of the pass as your Start and Destination points so as to limit the choices.
 
Apr 3, 2010
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thanks for all your replies. Have been looking at a lot of pics and info on the pass. The road looks ok and the plans of the gradient make it look pretty steady(some people cycle up it!!). Should be open by the end of the third week in May. The scenery looks stunning.
Would be better if I knew someone had actually taken a car and caravan through it. (can't be any worse than the A1604 to Ainsa in Spain last year can it?) Worst case is that I have to take the Frejus tunnel - hate long tunnels.
regards
 
Aug 11, 2010
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If its still usedby lorries which seems the case, then it should be no worse for a car and caravan,you just need to take care on the steep declines. good luck
 
Mar 27, 2010
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As a terrified wife, I can sympathise! However, the last time we went toI taly we went through the St Gottard on a Sunday morning, early! Bliss - no lorries and very quiet. We were down in Stresa before lunch and missed the mad Italian Sunday traffic as well. Coming back the tunnel was closed and we were directed over the pass. We were both a bit nervous but quite honestly it was a doddle! The views were fantastic.
 
Jan 5, 2011
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I have found this thread useful as I am planning the same route in June. I think my mind has been made up, however, after looking at the tunnel prices. Based on Height of vehical they will, I believe, take the Caravan ( in my case ) as 3m or less. That is 48.70 Euro one way !
Now also looking for a return journey to avoid Mont Blanc Tunnel also lol
Any ideas on that one ?
See tariffs in link below.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.123savoie.com/article-50497-1-tarifs-tunnel-du-frejus.html&ei=D1jNTdqBAoiKhQfsmKGVDQ&sa=X&oi
 
Aug 16, 2010
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WE TOO ARE LOOKING TO GO TO ITALY VIA FRANCE AND LUXEMBOURG VIA THE N66 NEAR NANCY COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TIME OF YOU YEAR YOU WENT AS WE WILL BE GOING MIDDLE OF APRIL AND I AM A BIT WORRIED THAT THIS MIGHT BE A BIT EARLY WEATHER WISE,
 
Apr 1, 2010
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Would never go to Italy that way would go through German thro to Innsbruck in Austria and then over the Brenner Motorway. Cheaper that way as the tolls are not very much. If you need more info let me know.
 
Aug 11, 2010
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Sorry dianne, to have to piont this error out again.
it has never ever been cheaper to go to 95% of Italy from the UK via the brenner pass.It is only [possibly] cheaper if you are going to the sud tirol ie dolomites or to the top of lake garda, and leave the same way, before your 10 day or 7 day toll pass for Austria expirers! As i go to Italy 4 times a year and send vehicles their using alternatives routes, and based on /costing/time, and have done so for 2 decades, i suggest you do some proper costings, as the route via the brenner is typically over 100 miles longer to anypionts in italy bar the sud tirol,and therefore adds an extra 200 miles to your route, which typically is over 7 gallons! more fuel and more italian tolls will be needed.then dont forget if you stay for over 7/ 10 days, you will need to pay for two austrian vignettes,and dont forget the 2 tolls for the brenner pass one each way. The Argument is always based around having to pay for 2 switz vignettes, but the extra fuel cost is over £45. and passing through austria and the breener pass each way, adds up to almost £30, and the extra italian m/way tolls are £25, so its actually dearer than going through luxembourg and switzerland.It is also between 2 and 3 hours longer to drive, each way too.
 
Apr 1, 2010
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No error. What I base my calculations on is we always go to Garda for a few nights on our way to the rest of Italy and the only toll we pay is for the Brenner Motorway one way and the cheap vignette in Austria. Free all through Belgium, and Germany. We tour and like to stop at various places on the way down and back. We always like to return via Venice, Udine and Villach stopping near there in Austria for some weeks before making the journey up to Salzburg and various routes home. If you are going to another part of Italy there are other ways I know. Do not remember it being mentioned foing and coming back the same way. Diesel is certainly a lot cheaper the way we go than in France and Switzerland.
 
Dec 10, 2007
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Had a little chuckle at this post as I have done both tunnels with a similarly terrified wife! Her suggestion to your wife is a black sleep mask and an iPod at full volume! The journey passes in no time.

Jim
 
Aug 11, 2010
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Sorry dianne, you are misleading fellow travellers, you state and i quote "you use the brenner pass" and you use this to state that this is the cheapest route to Italy, so can one not assume it means to return that way too?, as you make no mention of any differing return route. so what i state holds 100% true for anyone using the brenner pass to go and return.Although as tourers this should not be a priorty as we tour and look for new places. but never the less surely you can see how misleading your statement is to newby's? And indeed fuel is cheaper in Austria, than say france,or even germany, but as most would refuel at luxembourg, and not france, then you will only save a couple of Euros refilling in Austria compaired to refilling in switzerland. So i state again if one is asking or even stating which is the cheapest route to get to Italy, and back to the UK, then its not via austria and the brenner pass, unless you heading for the sud tirol or riva del garda, although the route is a beautifull route, and really should be done atleast once.......
 
Apr 3, 2010
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We went via Mont Cenis pass into Italy last year April/May. Very quiet. Stopped about half way up at a beautiful site - we were the only ones there. The scenery was breathtaking (and about 4 deg C in the morning. I was quite disappointed in the lake at the top which I half expected to be frozen but it wasn't. It was only about half full tho. Lots of Coypu? running around either side of the road. I was worried about the car having enough power on the up side but it was the downside that caused me probs and almost burnt out the brakes on the van. Roads on Italy side are awful (as with most roads in Italy). Apart from that and the rain around Lake Garda the trip was wonderful and Venice everything we hoped for. Was going to come back via Austria/Germany etc but the weather was so awful we went back into France (Alsace). We figured not much point going thru mountains if you can't see them. Bremmer pass very easy tho (as with all the roads in Austria/Germany we travelled on) . It took me a while to get used to the Mercs and Beemers coming past at 120+ tho.
Staying on West coast France this year. Last year 17 sites in 6 weeks was hard work.
 

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