And about time!!

[keith5]

My wife and I were DELIGHTED yesterday to see, in front of me, on the M5 a car with a small camping trailer on the hard shoulder of the motorway having just been pulled over by a very highly visible (once he had activated his blue lights) unmarked police car.

This CLOWN had just blasted past about 6 or 7 cars in the outside lane of the motorway at speeds well in excess of 80mph, with the trailer bouncing along behind.

I can tell you that those of us who live down here in Devon, Somerset and Cornwall, are sick and tired of smart-asses who totally ignore the speed limits and lane restrictions when towing. The usual inevitable result is that somebody spreads their trailer or caravan (and family) all over the Motorway causing hours of delay for the rest of us.

Nice to see that the police are having a purge on such behaviour!!

Makes the roads safer for everybody.

 

[JoannaLesley]

I agree with you Keith. Vehicles towing small trailers seem oblivious to the dangers (or their drivers are, rather). Is there a danger that drivers forget they have a trailer on the back when they can't see it in their mirror?

Jo

 

[keith5]

No Joanna.

I think that they are THICK and that they just choose to break the law!!

They KNOW damn well that they shouldn't be in the outside lane of a motorway with a trailer, and they also KNOW that they shouldn't be doing above the national speed limit for towing a trailer on a motorway (60mph).

But then, these sort of clowns are the ones who, as this guy was, get caught and then moan about the police having nothing better to do when they get points on their licences!!

 

[drsorento]

If they "forget" they are towing a trailer on the back then they are need taking off the road as they are showing lack of awarness.

As kieth says they are thick or just trying it on and this one got caught out, deserves all he get.

 

[Steve L]

I couldn't agree more.

Now before you all slate me for speeding, I was simply following the flow of traffic but this is what I saw on the M4 yesterday.

Transit motorhome in the outside lane doing 80Mph and swaying violently as it was on the brink of cotrolable being driven by a moron!!

A sorento towing a caravan in lane 1 with a nose weight so heavy that the rear wheel had half it's tyre side wall hidden by the wheel arch.

That was just two examples of leisure vehicles being used inappropriately. Then of coarse there was the usual array of vans and trucks in the outside lane illegally.

So another day in the office of pillocks on the motorway.

I'm pleased to hear of a policeman actually putting the hair drier down and doing some real detective work. But I bet the idiot driver only got a speeding ticket as they are processed ten times quicker and cheaper than a court case for dangerous driving!!!

I know a few coppers and they say they preffer to "click,print and nick" for speeding, to sitting in the office filling out reams of A4 to do someone for other motoring offences.

As I've said before the police would make a bomb if they started nicking lane hogg's, vans in the outside lane, lorries not able to overtake their fellow lorries without being in Lane 2 for a mile or more, to name just a few of the irratateing things we see on motorways hourly let alone daily.

Unfortunately untill the offences above are cleaned up, you won't see safer motorways. Unfortunately we don't have the strict rulings here that you see on German Autobans. These have no top speed limit but very strict control of the two lanes and if you dare to disregard the law they will and do pounce with vigor.

Atb Steve L.

 

[seth1]

I couldn't agree more.

Now before you all slate me for speeding, I was simply following the flow of traffic but this is what I saw on the M4 yesterday.

Transit motorhome in the outside lane doing 80Mph and swaying violently as it was on the brink of cotrolable being driven by a moron!!

A sorento towing a caravan in lane 1 with a nose weight so heavy that the rear wheel had half it's tyre side wall hidden by the wheel arch.

That was just two examples of leisure vehicles being used inappropriately. Then of coarse there was the usual array of vans and trucks in the outside lane illegally.

So another day in the office of pillocks on the motorway.

I'm pleased to hear of a policeman actually putting the hair drier down and doing some real detective work. But I bet the idiot driver only got a speeding ticket as they are processed ten times quicker and cheaper than a court case for dangerous driving!!!

I know a few coppers and they say they preffer to "click,print and nick" for speeding, to sitting in the office filling out reams of A4 to do someone for other motoring offences.

As I've said before the police would make a bomb if they started nicking lane hogg's, vans in the outside lane, lorries not able to overtake their fellow lorries without being in Lane 2 for a mile or more, to name just a few of the irratateing things we see on motorways hourly let alone daily.

Unfortunately untill the offences above are cleaned up, you won't see safer motorways. Unfortunately we don't have the strict rulings here that you see on German Autobans. These have no top speed limit but very strict control of the two lanes and if you dare to disregard the law they will and do pounce with vigor.

Atb Steve L.

Thats right Steve,except the one point i fail to see and agree with is the mention of HGV,s.This point has been raised before on this forum.Even if in some cases it does take a mile to overtake a slower vehicle,which yes it does as we all know,progress is still being made.Why should a driver be prosocuted for doing his job,when an EEC law dictates what speed HGV,s travel at,yet coach,s carry on at 80mph with no mention of speeding.Two standards maybe?

 

[Guest]

Steve.Firstly the autobahns do have speed limits with large strenches governed throughout the day.

As for the truck taking over another truck legally,what would/ could the police do about that!infact frankly yes it could take a mile for one truck to pass another, but there is no law against that. Mind you much more than that and i too think its taking the .

And no mention of the middle lane hugger! who seems to think the inside lane is solely for trucks!and at times even travels slower than the faster hgvs sitting there at 54/55 mph! and causes the huge tail backs when trucks start to stack up behind them, then people like you only see the slow hgv going head to head with another hgv!and assume its always down to them being only a fraction faster than the truck on the inside!

In Germany from what I have observed on 2 lane m/ways trucks and caravans have to use the inside lane only, but trucks at least[maybe caravans too] can use the second lane when the M/way becomes 3 lanes.

 

[NigelHutson]

A lot of the problem is that there is a heck of a lot of ignorance amongst drivers. Years ago, (in the good old days when there were Traffic Departments, and those of us who were interested were judged on the quality of work, not the quantity - i.e. examining vehicles properly and finding numerous defects rather than "pinging" Mr Decent with a speed gun!), I remember hearing all kinds of excuses on the motorway, such as "I thought I could tow a twin axle at 70", or "I thought I could tow a twin axle in the outside lane", or "I thought I could tow a small trailer in the outside lane". All responses showing an ignorance to a simple law (in this case). Ignorance in the eyes of that law is no excuse.

Probably one of the most regularly broken laws is the speed limit for "Transit" type vans. How many of their drivers know that they are limited to 50 on a single carriageway road, 60 on a dual-carriageway, and 70 on a motorway? The answer, very few indeed. And what's more, most don't care because 99 times out of 100, they will get away with it. After all, speed cameras don't catch people overtaking on solid white lines, or driving dangerously, (which doesn't necessarily mean they are speeding).

At one time, Britain could be proud of its driving standards. From experience of driving abroad regularly, we now have an appalling standard!

 

[NigelHutson]

Steve.Firstly the autobahns do have speed limits with large strenches governed throughout the day.

As for the truck taking over another truck legally,what would/ could the police do about that!infact frankly yes it could take a mile for one truck to pass another, but there is no law against that. Mind you much more than that and i too think its taking the .

And no mention of the middle lane hugger! who seems to think the inside lane is solely for trucks!and at times even travels slower than the faster hgvs sitting there at 54/55 mph! and causes the huge tail backs when trucks start to stack up behind them, then people like you only see the slow hgv going head to head with another hgv!and assume its always down to them being only a fraction faster than the truck on the inside!

In Germany from what I have observed on 2 lane m/ways trucks and caravans have to use the inside lane only, but trucks at least[maybe caravans too] can use the second lane when the M/way becomes 3 lanes.

There are things that can be done with regards to LGV drivers taking milkes to overtake.

1. Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.

2. Driving without due care and attention.

 

[Guest]

"here are things that can be done with regards to LGV drivers taking milkes to overtake.

1. Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.

2. Driving without due care and attention."

I think that is wishful thinking, in regards to the mass majority of over takes involving HGVs but more possible to apply to middle lane hoggers, which surprisingly is getting very little slating here, and is know to the driving agencies as a BIG problem.

As there is no time limit set on a over take,But more importantly were HGV vehicles to pull out at a more appropriate distance before actually starting there overtake. ie further back from the vehicle they are trying to overtake, I am happy to say those that moan would really have even more to moan about, and still the hgv vehicle would not be breaking any driving laws!

ATM most hgv drivers try to stay in the middle lane for the shortest period possible, if they followed the highway code to the letter, they would actually spend twice as long out in the middle lane, as they already do!

I agree there are many ignorant drivers out there, the vast majority never ever drive a lorry though.

And yes the only vans that can drive at car derived speed, are car derived vans ie corsa,old escort fiesta's that sort of thing.

 

[GeorgeandAde]

I have noticed that no one has mentioned that all HGV lorries (and most vans too), have speed limiters fitted to their vehicles and most are restricted to approx 56mph.

If the lorry being overtaken has a light load and is travelling at 57mph,the overtaking lorry will in fact take rather a long time to get passed.

Having said that,it wouldnt take much for the lorry being overtaken to drop its speed by about 1 or 2 mph to help the overtaking vehicle.

 

[hgv dave]

hi all

george&ade

couldnt agree with you more,if im being overtaken by a slightly faster hgv all i have to do is take my foot off for about 5secs and that is enough for the overtaker to get pass me

i was on the m6 the other day and a police car had pulled over a car with cycle rack loaded with bikes which were covering the cars number plate and lights.i dont think that the plonker car driver even thought about anyone being able to see his stop lights never mind his indicaters

hgv dave

 

[kopite]

As i`am a HGV driver i can understand why car drivers get frustrated i see it day after day 2 trucks trying to pass each other and takes forever i must be old school and always ease off to let truck in and belive it or not in europe its common practise to ease up when being passed.Now i`m a caravaner i always pull left of lane to help fellow vans.Going back to origional post not much to say apart from morons

 

[Steve L]

Like kopite & Dave,

I have driven truck and trailer combo's upto 44 tons regularly and if someone wants to pass, I'm quite happy to ease off and let them pass. Often it is a transport manager pushing from his "virtual desk", driving the chap on the black coalface of delivery to try to meet unachievable targets. Even the van drivers get the same stick as until the van is on the job site, no money is being earned for the company.

A firm I worked for paid the workers for the drive to site but not home, this could mean that you loose ten hours pay per week for being sat in the van waiting for the two hour drive home. I used to drive to the edge of the legal limit for my five workmatess on the way home because I felt that ruling was unfair to them. If we worked a lodging job, the manager would follow or tracker on the van with his computer and make a list of the times the van was stationary for more than 10 mins and when we got back I would have to explain them away. Suffice to say I was not amused at this attitude and expressed my disgust in true builder tradition. (Know what I mean Frank B).

Driving without due care and attention and obstruction of the highway, are just two of the tools in a policeman's box, if they can drop the "hair dryer" and be pro-active for a change. A camera never lies and a simple time framed photo and a

 

[keith5]

As the original poster of this thread, I don't have any issue with HGV (LGV) drivers at all, MOST of whom are trying to get a job done like the rest of us.

However Steve in Leo has illustrated a matter that the police are well aware of, but which reflects badly on the firms that allow it to happen. The prcatice of driving from behind a desk.

These "transport managers" most of whem have never been HGV drivers,(so they have no experience at all really)... are full of wind, and wise and wonderful ideas of where you can get to, and how long it WILL take you. (Based on speed limit breaking car journey times) of course!! But it impresses their bosses of course!!

They fail to EVER understand the problems caused by roadworks, delays due to accidents, slow moving traffic, diversions, time spent loading and offloading, and the fact that HGV vehicles have to stick to HGV speed limits.

If you are stuck at a customers for 4 hours because 4 other HGV's have to be unloaded before you, that's tough....but it happens.

However the bottom line of the equation is this.

As the DRIVER............YOU....are responsible for your vehicle (any vehicle) and the load that it carries, and no amount of pleading and whingeing to the police will get you off the hook if you are out there taking risks because your transport manager has told you "Well, you MUST get there before 5pm".

Personally I would NEVER put MY licence at risk for ANY firm.

It's not their licence to lose!!!

As a finale: The police have just (yesterday) commenced "Operation Vortex" down here in Avon, Somerset Devon and Cornwall.

This is an annual purge on Bad Driving. This is the third year that it will be taking place. It is always hugely "successful".

It's aimed at so called "drivers" who think that the laws are for everybody else, arrogant types, and those who think that they can blatantly ignore every speed and rul in the book. Middle lane hogs, people who use mobile phones, no indicators,

I gather that on the M5 yesterday alone, on a stretch from Gloucester to Exeter over 2400 drivers are going to be given tickets for exceeding 80mph, 357 for exceeding 90mph, and 7 will be prosecuted for travelling at over 100mph. All thanks to 9 linked mobile camera units on bridges linked to average speed systems.

I wish the police a highly successful week!!

Makes the roads safer for everybody!!

 

[emmerson2]

As the original poster of this thread, I don't have any issue with HGV (LGV) drivers at all, MOST of whom are trying to get a job done like the rest of us.

However Steve in Leo has illustrated a matter that the police are well aware of, but which reflects badly on the firms that allow it to happen. The prcatice of driving from behind a desk.

These "transport managers" most of whem have never been HGV drivers,(so they have no experience at all really)... are full of wind, and wise and wonderful ideas of where you can get to, and how long it WILL take you. (Based on speed limit breaking car journey times) of course!! But it impresses their bosses of course!!

They fail to EVER understand the problems caused by roadworks, delays due to accidents, slow moving traffic, diversions, time spent loading and offloading, and the fact that HGV vehicles have to stick to HGV speed limits.

If you are stuck at a customers for 4 hours because 4 other HGV's have to be unloaded before you, that's tough....but it happens.

However the bottom line of the equation is this.

As the DRIVER............YOU....are responsible for your vehicle (any vehicle) and the load that it carries, and no amount of pleading and whingeing to the police will get you off the hook if you are out there taking risks because your transport manager has told you "Well, you MUST get there before 5pm".

Personally I would NEVER put MY licence at risk for ANY firm.

It's not their licence to lose!!!

As a finale: The police have just (yesterday) commenced "Operation Vortex" down here in Avon, Somerset Devon and Cornwall.

This is an annual purge on Bad Driving. This is the third year that it will be taking place. It is always hugely "successful".

It's aimed at so called "drivers" who think that the laws are for everybody else, arrogant types, and those who think that they can blatantly ignore every speed and rul in the book. Middle lane hogs, people who use mobile phones, no indicators,

I gather that on the M5 yesterday alone, on a stretch from Gloucester to Exeter over 2400 drivers are going to be given tickets for exceeding 80mph, 357 for exceeding 90mph, and 7 will be prosecuted for travelling at over 100mph. All thanks to 9 linked mobile camera units on bridges linked to average speed systems.

I wish the police a highly successful week!!

Makes the roads safer for everybody!!

Agreed, Keith, but the camera cannot check the tyres, or lights, or any other check to ascertain wether or nor the car is safe, nor can it smell the drivers breath to see if he'd been drinking.

There is a case for cameras, but not to replace human police officers, which is what they're doing.

 

[Chrisbee]

Thats right Steve,except the one point i fail to see and agree with is the mention of HGV,s.This point has been raised before on this forum.Even if in some cases it does take a mile to overtake a slower vehicle,which yes it does as we all know,progress is still being made.Why should a driver be prosocuted for doing his job,when an EEC law dictates what speed HGV,s travel at,yet coach,s carry on at 80mph with no mention of speeding.Two standards maybe?

Since 2001 there has been a rolling programme of speed limiter fitment for PSV's (coaches). Currently PCV's with more than 8 passenger seats require a speed limiter fitted with a stabilised speed set at 100kph or less (roughly 62 mph). This is an MOT testable item.

 

[Guest]

"Driving without due care and attention and obstruction of the highway, are just two of the tools in a policeman's box"

LOL,LOL LOL, sorry that just made me laugh.and given any normal road conditions where two lorries were not side by side for...good knows how long, the CPS would laugh in the face of any police force that actually tried to apply either of those "tools"

You cannot apply obstruction of the highway, unless both lorries were crawling at an unreasonable slow speed, and 50 plus mph cannot be considered unreasonable.

"Undue car and attention" strangely you can actually be a driver loose control of your car kill a passenger and still not get charged!

So I would dearly like to see how lorries being driven in a straight line could actually be charged with undue care, being as most peoples arguments are based on being stuck behind these type of incidents,with no thought for what could actually be happening in front of said incident!

 

[NigelHutson]

No but driving without reasonable consideration for other road users could be used, and a fixed penalty ticket can be issued for that.

It would depend upon how long (both time and distance) it took for the overtake, and would have to be witnessed by the Police, but it's there.

Unfortunately, Police Forces are not interested in road traffic these days because the Government tell us that everyone is scared to death of being burgled or robbed. Therefore, until their attitude changes and they realise that far more people are affected by bad driving than all other crimes (and I'm not suggesting any crime is trivial!) we're stuck. And of course, that's never going to happen when they're being chauferred around in gas guzzling limos (with escorts), whilst telling us that we should all be ridin bikes and using public transport.

Now what was the original question?

 

[Philspadders]

today on the A1 south bound between Blythe and Lincoln a lorry was overtaking another lorry. it took 3.5 miles to complete.

HGV drivers argue that they do this and tailgate because they dont want to lose any speed or momentum because it takes a long time to get it back.

Today the tailback probably stretched 5 miles.

Thanks.

 

[seth1]

Whats the problem? people who complain about HGV's take it up with your local MP to,

A, Through his powers,and the EEC raise RSL set speeds,

B, Improve roads and conjestion,

C, Put a duty on all the incoming traffic from Europe,

Failing that,get out of bed earlier.It costs best part of 1100.00 pounds to tax a 44tonne outfit,plus 250 pounds a day to run inside of the M25 unless of course its Euro 3 compliant.So in my book the operater contributes enough to take 10 miles to overtake if need be.

 

[Guest]

I think on dual carriageways, maybe the German system would be a good idea, ie cars only in the outside lane,but the standard of driving in this country would still see tail backs, and cars switching between lanes.

The proof for that is on m/ways, there are 3 lanes [usually]and this argument about inconsiderate HGV drivers,holding up drivers! rears an important point.

There is a third lane free of HGVs, and yet that too can be bumper to bumper and you will see like the thread starter said, vehicles in that lane that shout not be there!You will found car drivers switching lanes to make up a few places!over and over again!

not so much undue car, as bloody dangerous. Buy what did this thread actually highlight? inconsiderate HGV drivers,and a way to get them outta each posters way!Strange really, when one would think people would want to highlight "dangerous driving"

Yes there are inconsiderate HGV drivers out there, no doubt some are a menace nay dangerous, but each day I am on the road, towing my caravan, riding my bike simply driving a car or working driving an hgv, I am not amazed anymore, by the silly antics of so many people in cars, whos driving skills are some what short of what is safe driving,don't know the bloody highway code, or simply are so selfish as to not care.

For me these numbers make any issue concerning the standard of HGV driving pale into insignificance.

Especially, as an HGV driver is far better trained at the on set than a solely car driver, Generally anyway....