Annual service

Sep 30, 2010
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Next to the compound where I store my van is an Eldiss dealer whose service charge is approximately £60 cheaper than it is at my Swift group dealer where I bought my Abbey.Is there any reason why my van should not be serviced there (with regard to keeping within the Warranty)? Any experiences out there?

Thanks, Derek
 
Aug 2, 2006
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Hi Dereck, If the dealer is either an NCC Approved Workshop or a Swift Approved Dealer then there should be no problem.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Derek, are you sure that the the charges are like for like?

Marquis Poole are doing a
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Derek.

Metz has outlined the normal state of affairs, but I strongly advice that you check with the manufacture first.

May I also amend some of your terminology. Your 'Warranty' rests exclusively between you and your seller, (not the manufacturer) and it cannot be affected by where or who does any service work. It is basically it is a statement (Written or implied) that says the caravan was fit for purpose at the time of purchase. It is your statutory legal right under the Sale of Goods Act.

Entirely different is the Manufactures guarantee. This is a totally separate contract between you and the manufacturer. It details what the manufacturer will do if certain things happen or go wrong with the caravan. In general it explains how the manufacture will go about repairing the caravan. Because the manufacturers guarantee is not a legal requirement, the manufacture can specify the conditions under which they will honour it. Some manufacturers may still require all service work to be performed by their nominated dealers and no one else.

Always Check what your manufacture requires.
 
Mar 8, 2007
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John.L

Quote: "Your 'Warranty' rests exclusively between you and your seller, (not the manufacturer) and it cannot be affected by where or who does any service work".

If for arguments sake one had a warranty for three years, but decided to have the first service undertaken by a different dealer.

What would be the outcome of any complaint thereon, as the original dealer could use this as an excuse to shift any blame over to the last party you carried out the service.

Seller says it was not serviced correctly and service engineer says they only give you a warranty on the parts they replace.

This is not intended as an argument, I would just like a clear picture of how one stands, when two parties are involved with the same van,

best regards, Martin
 
Jun 20, 2005
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I always find these things far too complicated than they need be.

John L quite rightly points out that the Contract for Purchase is between the supplying dealer and purchaser. SOGA clearly applies; no need to repeat it all here.

However, for me Bailey very kindly give me a "Manufacturers Warranty Package" which is subject to their own terms and conditions. If I abide by them , no problem, if I don't the agreement ceases.

OK, so far so good.

Bailey go on to say I can have my caravan serviced at any of their stated Bailey dealers irrespective of where I originally purchased.

I also believe , by individual agreement, some of the mobile NCC approved repairers may be included. However the handbook I have doesn't say that so check.

Now here's the issue Martin raises . If I service elsewhere can I hold the original dealer responsible for failures under SOGA?

I believe you can . Unless in your original Contract with the selling Dealer it said only he can do the service / repair, then I see no problem. We all know full well such a clause would be seen by the Courts as an Unfair Contract Term.

Thus as long as my Service has been done by an approved repairer, my Service Book stamped, genuine parts used, then I see no reason why my supplying Dealer is not responsible under SOGA to the extent they would have been had they done all the servicing.

Now here's the Tripartite bit. If something fails as a direct result of the Approved Repairers negligence then he will be responsible.

However if a genuine part he fitted fails you still have a right of action against the Supplying Dealer as if he had fitted that part

I wonder if our experts at Read caravans have experienced this issue in the flesh so to speak?

I'm no expert and these are just my thoughts only.

Cheers

Dustydog
 
Nov 20, 2006
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I always find these things far too complicated than they need be.

John L quite rightly points out that the Contract for Purchase is between the supplying dealer and purchaser. SOGA clearly applies; no need to repeat it all here.

However, for me Bailey very kindly give me a "Manufacturers Warranty Package" which is subject to their own terms and conditions. If I abide by them , no problem, if I don't the agreement ceases.

OK, so far so good.

Bailey go on to say I can have my caravan serviced at any of their stated Bailey dealers irrespective of where I originally purchased.

I also believe , by individual agreement, some of the mobile NCC approved repairers may be included. However the handbook I have doesn't say that so check.

Now here's the issue Martin raises . If I service elsewhere can I hold the original dealer responsible for failures under SOGA?

I believe you can . Unless in your original Contract with the selling Dealer it said only he can do the service / repair, then I see no problem. We all know full well such a clause would be seen by the Courts as an Unfair Contract Term.

Thus as long as my Service has been done by an approved repairer, my Service Book stamped, genuine parts used, then I see no reason why my supplying Dealer is not responsible under SOGA to the extent they would have been had they done all the servicing.

Now here's the Tripartite bit. If something fails as a direct result of the Approved Repairers negligence then he will be responsible.

However if a genuine part he fitted fails you still have a right of action against the Supplying Dealer as if he had fitted that part

I wonder if our experts at Read caravans have experienced this issue in the flesh so to speak?

I'm no expert and these are just my thoughts only.

Cheers

Dustydog
Dustydog,

the very short answer is, you are correct.

as regards servicing, if unsure and you want a particular service agent to undertake the servicing for you, get it in writing from the manufacturer. i say this because the manufacturers warranty lies solely with the manufacturer when problems and timescale exceed SOGA.

i have had first hand experience over the years of manufacturers rejecting claims because their terms have not been followed, and the supplying dealer has not been required to repair either because faults have been outside the normal terms of SOGA.

so basically follow the manufacturers guidance and you will never have a problem with warranty or repairs.
 
Nov 20, 2006
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Dustydog,

the very short answer is, you are correct.

as regards servicing, if unsure and you want a particular service agent to undertake the servicing for you, get it in writing from the manufacturer. i say this because the manufacturers warranty lies solely with the manufacturer when problems and timescale exceed SOGA.

i have had first hand experience over the years of manufacturers rejecting claims because their terms have not been followed, and the supplying dealer has not been required to repair either because faults have been outside the normal terms of SOGA.

so basically follow the manufacturers guidance and you will never have a problem with warranty or repairs.
 
Sep 30, 2010
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Hello All!

Many thanks for all of your feedback on the servicing topic. I'll now need to check the various points raised. Thanks again.

Derek
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Read Caravans

Many thanks for the clarification on this very important issue.

Cheers

Dustydog
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Happy

I appreciate your devils advocacy on this subject, and I will try to clarify the situation in your given scenario. this will be a fairly long reply.

Let me first of all point out that I am not a legal expert, and what follows is my opinion and interpretation of the Law. It is however based on some web based research, and some experience of having to deal with trading standards where reasonable proof of fault was required.

I always recommend that anyone contemplating a serious warranty claim seek professional legal advice.

First of all, you need to get your head around the difference between a warranty and a guarantee. They are entirely different, and in many cases the words are incorrectly used and mixed up to describe the protection a consumer has, and who is liable and for what. The main difference is between a guarantee and a warranty is that a warranty is always enacted when a retailer sells a new product. it is the law and constitutes your statutory rights. A guarantee is not a legal requirement, but if one is offered it is a conditional contract.

A warranty is purely a statement like an MOT that only applies to the condition of a product at the point of sale. In other words it is the seller saying they believe the product they have sold is fit for purpose, and free from defects.

Using the MOT comparison, the issuing Vosa centre does not say the mot will not stand if you have the car service anywhere else; it is simply a snapshot in time.

So for that reason you do not have a 12month or even a three year warranty, the warranty lasts for the life of the product, or until it is sold on. In practice the longest a claim has been allowed under SOGA cases has been six years, but it does depend on the product and the degree of usage it has been put to.

Now if you do have a product failure and you wish to claim under WARRANTY, you must make the claim against the seller (no one else, not even a dealer who sells the same product). And you have to be able to prove** that the fault was either present at the time of sale, or that the cause of the fault was present at the time of sale.

** Proof in SOGA cases comes under civil law, where the test is based on the balance of probability (Criminal law requires proof beyond reasonable doubt). The burden of proof changes with time. In essence for the first 6 months, if a problem arises, then it is up to the seller show that on the balance of probabilities the problem was not present at the time of sale. After 6 months the burden falls on the owner to show that on the balance of probabilities the fault existed at the time of sale. Its not quite black and white!

The degree of liability that a seller has is judged on the merits of case, but in general it is discounted against the life expectancy of the product or 6 years which ever is shorter.

Using your scenario - If a fault becomes apparent it has to be shown that it (or its cause) was present at the time of sale. If it is disputed and cannot be resolved between you and the seller, then your course of action is through SOGA. Unless the service work could be shown to have contributed to the fault, then it has no bearing on the claim. Even if the service work may have affected the fault, the seller may still be liable for some of the cost. Only a courts ruling on the case could give you the final answer.

As for the service provider, they are only liable for the warranty on parts they supply, but they are also liable for the workmanship they provide (Workmanship is as much a product as physical part) so if they have contributed to a fault condition under SOGA they are liable for the damage they cause.

I have to agree with you that to avoid any dichotomy; you would have to only use the SELLERS service facilities. Avoid any other services, even if they are accredited to work on the same make of product. But it is not a legal requirement.

I will try to be briefer regarding Guarantees. As stated above a Guarantee is a conditional contract. It is a predictive statement that defines how the guarantor will act if certain conditions arise. In most retail cases (including caravans) the guarantor is the Manufacturer (not the seller or the dealer) In many ways it will give the appearance of working like the warrantee but it is not the warrantee as that only exists between you and the seller.

Being a contract, a guarantee has terms and conditions. For the contract to remain valid you must abide by the terms and conditions. If they require services to be performed only by subscribing dealers, then you must do so. If you wish to vary the terms of the contract you must get written permission, for example to have service or repair work carried out by a non-marques dealer.

Incidentally, if you make a claim under "warranty" (i.e. against the seller) the seller cannot refer the decision to the manufacture. The seller may request the manufactures opinion, but the manufactures opinion is not binding on the outcome, so even if a manufacture declines to reimburse the seller, that should not affect your rights under SOGA for the seller to make good a faulty product.

Not every retailer is aware of that, so don't be fobbed off.
 
Mar 8, 2007
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John.L

It hasn't taken me all WE to read your reply, I have been away.

Thank you for clarifying my concerns and I prefer long winded replies. I think these give you a better opinion, where you can therefore be more thorough and make it easier for the third party to understand.

It certainly is a jungle out there. As for the majority of us, the scenarios I have mentioned would be the first time it had happened to them, whereas some dealers have seen it all before and will use every clause available to aviod incuring any costs

themselves,

best regards, Martin
 
Nov 25, 2009
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A part from an annual damp check I cannot see the logic in insisting on an annual service to maintain a warrenty, safety is a difernet issue.

Most of the work in the service is to check stuff works, well most of us can do this ourseleves really, gas appliances are not serviced as such just the system checked for pressure drop evidencing leaks.

Most servicing is done around the anniversary of purchase because of warrenties; so if you bought the van in late Q3 Q4 it may well be months and months before it gets used after the service making the thing quite pointless IMHO.

My arguement here is: for a smaller change the essential items could be done which would support a warrenty as much of the service activity is used to pad out the work and create a higher charge.

So, brakes, tyres and running gear, gas check and a damp test basic price hey presto. Cynically it could be argued it is a way of guaranting a three year post sale income stream for dealers.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Fenester

The biggest cost to me is the hassle of taking the caravan 40 miles to the dealer and collecting it next afternoon.

Looking at the Service Schedule it is broken down into the following main sections:-

Chassis and running gear

12v electrics

Gas- all appliances

Mains electrics

Water systems

Fire safety

Bodyworks

What do you think could be excluded to reduce cost?

Cheers

Dustydog
 
Nov 25, 2009
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Hi Fenester

The biggest cost to me is the hassle of taking the caravan 40 miles to the dealer and collecting it next afternoon.

Looking at the Service Schedule it is broken down into the following main sections:-

Chassis and running gear

12v electrics

Gas- all appliances

Mains electrics

Water systems

Fire safety

Bodyworks

What do you think could be excluded to reduce cost?

Cheers

Dustydog
Checking stuff to see it works they dont service appliances.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Checking stuff to see it works they dont service appliances.
Safety checks on gas and electricity are crucial imo.So they must check it works to prove it's safe??
 
Nov 25, 2009
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My point was that there are two issues tha servicing attends to.

One. Warrenty protection i.e. work that if dont done would results in deteriation and a higher cost of repair to the manufacturer under warrenty. The damp test is a good example.

I.e you could have a quick warrenty supporting check at a minimal proce and other stuff could be done elsewhere if the owner chooses.

Two. Safety Gas checks etc... these can be done by a competent person not necessarily a franchised dealer.

Decouple the warrenty related work from other work and price it seperately.

The orignal topic was discussing the linkage of servicing with maintaining warrenty cover hence this altenate view.

The validity of safety checking is not my point here as when the caravan is out of warrenty the service isn't required on the owner as the warenty has fiinshed. The fact that people dont have safety checks after 3 years or whatever is a seperate matter and another discussion.
 
Nov 25, 2009
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My point was that there are two issues tha servicing attends to.

One. Warrenty protection i.e. work that if dont done would results in deteriation and a higher cost of repair to the manufacturer under warrenty. The damp test is a good example.

I.e you could have a quick warrenty supporting check at a minimal proce and other stuff could be done elsewhere if the owner chooses.

Two. Safety Gas checks etc... these can be done by a competent person not necessarily a franchised dealer.

Decouple the warrenty related work from other work and price it seperately.

The orignal topic was discussing the linkage of servicing with maintaining warrenty cover hence this altenate view.

The validity of safety checking is not my point here as when the caravan is out of warrenty the service isn't required on the owner as the warenty has fiinshed. The fact that people dont have safety checks after 3 years or whatever is a seperate matter and another discussion.
Apologies for typos, I cant see a means to edit mistakes after posting like on other forums....
 
Nov 25, 2009
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I see what you mean. No worries re typos. This engine is side valve here!
Yes I must take more care... on CT2 I am used to a preview pane and an edit post publishing. I don't know about you but I find it hard to spot errors on a simple text editor like this.

I am particularly embarassed about the don't instead of not caused by typing too quickly and not taking the care to check properly.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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John.L

It hasn't taken me all WE to read your reply, I have been away.

Thank you for clarifying my concerns and I prefer long winded replies. I think these give you a better opinion, where you can therefore be more thorough and make it easier for the third party to understand.

It certainly is a jungle out there. As for the majority of us, the scenarios I have mentioned would be the first time it had happened to them, whereas some dealers have seen it all before and will use every clause available to aviod incuring any costs

themselves,

best regards, Martin
Thank you Martin,

Your scenario is quite possible so it was definitely worth raising it, so full marks there. It is a bit of a minefield, and because the UK public are not well versed in their legal rights in this area, there are traders who will try an pull the wool over customer eyes, to avoid having to meet a legitimate claim citing things like "the manufacture has declined to cover this so I can't replace/repair it."
 
Nov 19, 2006
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Hello Derek.

Metz has outlined the normal state of affairs, but I strongly advice that you check with the manufacture first.

May I also amend some of your terminology. Your 'Warranty' rests exclusively between you and your seller, (not the manufacturer) and it cannot be affected by where or who does any service work. It is basically it is a statement (Written or implied) that says the caravan was fit for purpose at the time of purchase. It is your statutory legal right under the Sale of Goods Act.

Entirely different is the Manufactures guarantee. This is a totally separate contract between you and the manufacturer. It details what the manufacturer will do if certain things happen or go wrong with the caravan. In general it explains how the manufacture will go about repairing the caravan. Because the manufacturers guarantee is not a legal requirement, the manufacture can specify the conditions under which they will honour it. Some manufacturers may still require all service work to be performed by their nominated dealers and no one else.

Always Check what your manufacture requires.
When my caravan needed a service Tabbert said I had to take it to one of their dealers-the nearest is 90 miles away. This was not viable and so I had it serviced by a NCC approved dealer who actually found some defective workmanship.

What about car servicing? I thought that the law says you can take your car whilst under warranty to any VAT registered garage workshop as long as the work is carried out to the specification of the manufacturer.

Would this not be the case with a caravan?
 
Mar 8, 2007
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Dustydog,

Quote: What do you think could be excluded to reduce cost?

Cheers

The last word, don't offer to buy the engineer a pint after the work has been completed,

best regards, Martin
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Martin, You meany.

I always give them enough for a 3 pints because I am so pleased with their work.

Anyway I only see them once a year and they are very caring people who have looked after me and my caravans for years.

Cheers

Dustydog
 

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