Can I make a plea I was driving on the A1M in DURHAM when I saw a caravan overturned. The A1M is bad for crosswinds I just wish people would slow down. This the second time I have seen this on this road.
another caravan overturn
- Thread starter chris_374398963
- Start date
I really think speed has a lot to do with it, I live quite near the said road and use it quite a lot. I have been passed a few times while I was doing 70mph and not towing my van by people towing vans.
May I add the car was a Land Rover and the other car was a
Mercedes both were 4x4s.I also think the highway authories should warn drivers on these side winds for this section of the road like they do in other parts of thr A1
Mercedes both were 4x4s.I also think the highway authories should warn drivers on these side winds for this section of the road like they do in other parts of thr A1
Chris, much as I hope your appeal bears fruit, I'm pretty sure that it will fall on deaf ears.
Unfortunately there's a whole new breed of "would be" caravanners who just can't resist the urge to get the accelerator pedal down whilst towing. Doesn't matter what the towing vehicle is. The bottom line of it is a smashed caravan (almost inevitably a write off), and a ruined holiday.
But THEY know best. THEY are wonderful drivers, with big swanky cars and thick, bull headed attitudes to any road laws.
But don't they look stupid standing next to their wrecked caravans with the police when the inevitable happens!!! YES. Not so bloody smart now....!!
WE who have caravanned safely for many many years get more and more despairing of being overtaken by caravans, usually on motorways, at well over 70mph. Cross winds and draughts from high sided lorries have no respect for swanky 4x4's, cars, people carriers or anything else.
The speed LIMIT for towing a caravan is 60mph. In most cases, and on most roads even THAT is too fast. But there are always going to be the smart-asses who can and will drive too fast for other people's safety!!
Unfortunately there's a whole new breed of "would be" caravanners who just can't resist the urge to get the accelerator pedal down whilst towing. Doesn't matter what the towing vehicle is. The bottom line of it is a smashed caravan (almost inevitably a write off), and a ruined holiday.
But THEY know best. THEY are wonderful drivers, with big swanky cars and thick, bull headed attitudes to any road laws.
But don't they look stupid standing next to their wrecked caravans with the police when the inevitable happens!!! YES. Not so bloody smart now....!!
WE who have caravanned safely for many many years get more and more despairing of being overtaken by caravans, usually on motorways, at well over 70mph. Cross winds and draughts from high sided lorries have no respect for swanky 4x4's, cars, people carriers or anything else.
The speed LIMIT for towing a caravan is 60mph. In most cases, and on most roads even THAT is too fast. But there are always going to be the smart-asses who can and will drive too fast for other people's safety!!
Chris, may i ask whereabouts? I live Newcastle way, if there is a black spot i would certainly like to know for the future?
Hello Keith,
Whilst your comments may apply in some instances, they do not apply in all. Even if he had been driving badly, we should show some sympathy for the hard earned lesson, that he will hopefully take on board.
Who knows what caused this accident, was he driving an old car, or caravan, what speed the driver was doing, wind speed / crosswind, did he have a blow out, did an animal run in front of him, did another vehicle clip him, there are so many possibilities...... I made the point on another thread, until someone analyses all caravan accidents, and a common set of circumstance develops, we all have to accept that we are all in charge of our own destiny.
Best regards,
George
Whilst your comments may apply in some instances, they do not apply in all. Even if he had been driving badly, we should show some sympathy for the hard earned lesson, that he will hopefully take on board.
Who knows what caused this accident, was he driving an old car, or caravan, what speed the driver was doing, wind speed / crosswind, did he have a blow out, did an animal run in front of him, did another vehicle clip him, there are so many possibilities...... I made the point on another thread, until someone analyses all caravan accidents, and a common set of circumstance develops, we all have to accept that we are all in charge of our own destiny.
Best regards,
George
Well said Bedford George, Some people just can't wait to kick someone while they are down. As you have said, we know nothing at all about this accident, but as usual somene has to go off on one, ranting on with absolutely no fact to endorse the self satified smug remarks.
Steve W
Steve W
I certainly did not get the impression that Chris was making a self satified smug remark.
It seemed to be a heart felt impassioned plea for all drivers to take more care especially a stretch of road produces sporadic challenging conditions.
Nobody is kicking anybody when they are down all I am saying just be aware of the crosswinds on this road as they are bad.Also I hope the highway people will give warnings like they do on other parts of the A1M. Also it made me unhappy to see a car and caravan like this.
Another one today on the m5 just north of bristol after the long downhill near Michal wood services, tail back over 10 miles this afternoon. Large twin axal van with a normal family car being wagged until it went over. Hope all are ok but the caravan and car were a mess.
Kevin
Kevin
Parksy
Moderator
Bedford George's remarks and by implication the endorsement of his post by Steve W were addressed to Keith who had made some unfounded assertions and generalisations.
We are all concerned with caravan safety but as George rightly pointed out no body of evidence as yet seems to exist which outlines definitive causes of accidents involving towing vehicles and caravans.
Speed alone is not the cause of caravan related accidents because any member who uses their tourer on the continent will say that towing speeds in other countries is often higher than in the UK.
We are all concerned with caravan safety but as George rightly pointed out no body of evidence as yet seems to exist which outlines definitive causes of accidents involving towing vehicles and caravans.
Speed alone is not the cause of caravan related accidents because any member who uses their tourer on the continent will say that towing speeds in other countries is often higher than in the UK.
totally agree parksy and George, nobody has ever come forward and said that speed is the main cause of accidents, in fact in this months magazine there is a very good article on caravan accidents and the conclusion is that we still have no idea why they occur although poor loading does seem to be a major factor in quite a few accidents.
modern cars and caravans are more than capable of travelling at 70 mph or more if correctly matched and loaded, ive stated many times on here about the tens of thousands of miles ive towed on the continent at an average of 70 mph and more on occasions if i consider the road and weather conditions to be good enough and up to now ive never had one single "scary" moment.
this accident may have been speed related but just as equally it may have been something completely innocent !.
modern cars and caravans are more than capable of travelling at 70 mph or more if correctly matched and loaded, ive stated many times on here about the tens of thousands of miles ive towed on the continent at an average of 70 mph and more on occasions if i consider the road and weather conditions to be good enough and up to now ive never had one single "scary" moment.
this accident may have been speed related but just as equally it may have been something completely innocent !.
No caravan is designed to be towed at more than 60mph. Even the French point out that insurance coverage may be jeopardised if towing faster, despite the fact that their speed limit allows 130km/h.
By the way, France and Belgium are the only countries with a higher speed limit for caravans than the UK.
By the way, France and Belgium are the only countries with a higher speed limit for caravans than the UK.
Speed may not be the major cause of accidents, but it must be a factor.
Cars are getting faster all the time and easier to drive, so anybody can get in and put their foot down.
....but experience is also a factor, and I would be so bold as to say that a large proportion of caravanners are not experienced at towing as the do less than 2,000 miles per year.
Keith
Cars are getting faster all the time and easier to drive, so anybody can get in and put their foot down.
....but experience is also a factor, and I would be so bold as to say that a large proportion of caravanners are not experienced at towing as the do less than 2,000 miles per year.
Keith
Hello everyone,I do not know the reasons for these incidents but I would not like to be in their place and no matter who is at fault it is still a shame for them and theirs.It must be very distressing for the whole family.especially the children.It must be very scarey when they when they take to the road again. Good luck and remember "there but for the grace of God!!!!"
Thursdays Child
Thursdays Child
George's comment was aimed at Keith. Well said George. I hope me and my "swanky" 4x4 never have an accident whilst towing. Even if I was the innocent party people like Keith will pre judge.what a world we live in !!
Chris you made a good post. It makes my hair stand on end when I hear about any accident but somehow Caravan ones seem worst.
Hi Parksy, Steve W and Icemaker,
Whenever there is a collision or incident it means that someone somewhere along the line has not done what they should have, and thus someone is always responsible, so there is no such thing as an accident that is why the Police now call them incidents.
Contrary to the assertions of others in this thread, speed is always a major factor in a collision, whether it be between two moving vehicles or a moving vehicle and a stationary object. In fact remove speed from any of the caravan overturning incidents, and the incident would not happen.
Regardless of what speed a caravan or car is capable of doing, if it is going faster than is safe for the the conditions, then incidents are more likely to occur.
Whenever there is a collision or incident it means that someone somewhere along the line has not done what they should have, and thus someone is always responsible, so there is no such thing as an accident that is why the Police now call them incidents.
Contrary to the assertions of others in this thread, speed is always a major factor in a collision, whether it be between two moving vehicles or a moving vehicle and a stationary object. In fact remove speed from any of the caravan overturning incidents, and the incident would not happen.
Regardless of what speed a caravan or car is capable of doing, if it is going faster than is safe for the the conditions, then incidents are more likely to occur.
Parksy
Moderator
Hi John L
In my earlier post I wrote 'Speed alone is not the cause of caravan related accidents'
I'd agree that it may be a major contributory factor but many believe that poor loading or overloading is another major cause of caravan instability and judging by the number of forum members who have written anecdotally on this forum alone tyre deterioration may play it's part because many people wrongly believe that because a tyre has a good tread it is safe to use.
I take your point about incidents as opposed to accidents but most of us write on here as we speak which is colloquially.
There is no requirement for a command of English grammar for members to use this forum, it is open to all. I don't wish to seem unkind but we'd rather that that members put their point across as best as they can and not be discouraged by hair splitting over phraseology.
In my earlier post I wrote 'Speed alone is not the cause of caravan related accidents'
I'd agree that it may be a major contributory factor but many believe that poor loading or overloading is another major cause of caravan instability and judging by the number of forum members who have written anecdotally on this forum alone tyre deterioration may play it's part because many people wrongly believe that because a tyre has a good tread it is safe to use.
I take your point about incidents as opposed to accidents but most of us write on here as we speak which is colloquially.
There is no requirement for a command of English grammar for members to use this forum, it is open to all. I don't wish to seem unkind but we'd rather that that members put their point across as best as they can and not be discouraged by hair splitting over phraseology.
Hi chris,
I am so glad that somebody has brought this subject up, I was traverling up the A1 last year near Durham , when I experienced the very bad side winds that were present their , dropped down to 45 miles per hr and the van settled down, came across one of Durhams double decker bus , decidede to keep well back as it was swearving all over the road with the gusts.
Another bad spot is when you just past the Angle of the North and start the decline to go round Newcastle, it can become very gusty their.
I am so glad that somebody has brought this subject up, I was traverling up the A1 last year near Durham , when I experienced the very bad side winds that were present their , dropped down to 45 miles per hr and the van settled down, came across one of Durhams double decker bus , decidede to keep well back as it was swearving all over the road with the gusts.
Another bad spot is when you just past the Angle of the North and start the decline to go round Newcastle, it can become very gusty their.
.... a caravan is a balanced trailer.
That is a trailer that carries most of its weight placed on an axle or axles mounted in the middle.
Such a trailer is inherently unstable and will be made more so by poor loading, poor brake and tyre maintenance, bow waves from larger vehicles, strong winds and not least by poor driving techniques.
The fact that they are unstable is why it is recommended that the towcar is heavier than the caravan in an attempt to make it more likely that the caravan instability can be controlled before it becomes irretrievably dangerous.
This is simply fact and accidents/incidents occur for the above reasons.
Perhaps the time has come for heavier caravans to have 4 wheels ..one at each corner?
That is a trailer that carries most of its weight placed on an axle or axles mounted in the middle.
Such a trailer is inherently unstable and will be made more so by poor loading, poor brake and tyre maintenance, bow waves from larger vehicles, strong winds and not least by poor driving techniques.
The fact that they are unstable is why it is recommended that the towcar is heavier than the caravan in an attempt to make it more likely that the caravan instability can be controlled before it becomes irretrievably dangerous.
This is simply fact and accidents/incidents occur for the above reasons.
Perhaps the time has come for heavier caravans to have 4 wheels ..one at each corner?
as you pass the metro center heading north as you cross the river tyne is a bad spot for wind as it comes down the tyne vally.also as you approch the peterlee turn off this is another bad spot as the road is on an embankment with no tree cover,they have put a sign up which comes on when the wind speed is high.hope this helps
Gafferbill
Re your comment that caravans should be heavier -maybe, perhaps.
Your comment on having four wheels is a no no. Although slightly different, carriage drivers (horse and cart) are always taught to drive (term used to drive a pony/horse or multiple ponies/horses) a two wheeled carriage. It's a well known fact that four wheels is a hell of a lot more unstable and I guess this would relate to caravans too. Never been brave enough to have a four wheel carriage myself, seen too many turn over, particularly when cornering, only ever driven and owned and driven two wheel ones.
Just a bit of useless information from me.
Lisa
Re your comment that caravans should be heavier -maybe, perhaps.
Your comment on having four wheels is a no no. Although slightly different, carriage drivers (horse and cart) are always taught to drive (term used to drive a pony/horse or multiple ponies/horses) a two wheeled carriage. It's a well known fact that four wheels is a hell of a lot more unstable and I guess this would relate to caravans too. Never been brave enough to have a four wheel carriage myself, seen too many turn over, particularly when cornering, only ever driven and owned and driven two wheel ones.
Just a bit of useless information from me.
Lisa
Lutz
"No caravan is designed to be towed at more than 60mph"
In engineering terms don't the manufacturers add a % safety margin?
If what you say is true, I don't doubt you , then one has to say that every caravan dealer needs to have big signs saying 60 mph max. Also they should make all purchasers sign an understanding to that effect.
Cheers
Dustydog
"No caravan is designed to be towed at more than 60mph"
In engineering terms don't the manufacturers add a % safety margin?
If what you say is true, I don't doubt you , then one has to say that every caravan dealer needs to have big signs saying 60 mph max. Also they should make all purchasers sign an understanding to that effect.
Cheers
Dustydog
I would imagine that there is a technical safety margin, Dusty, but for legal purposes (insurance coverage, etc.) 60mph is the limit. There is no need for a sign at the dealer because the speed limit in the UK is 60mph anyway, but there is a note, for example, in the owner's handbook of my caravan pointing out that caravans are only homologated for speeds up to 60mph.
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