In our Isuzu pickup we carried two bags on cement. One over each rear wheel. It helped. I towed a caravan many miles on tar, gravel and dirt roads without a care using a Peugeot 404 diesel pickup which carried all our gear, food and booze enough for a stay in the bush for about 6 weeks. The 3 labourers were also in the rear. I cringe when I think of the recommended 85% for newbies.
You should also check the terms and conditions of any warranty you are offered on your caravan, as some caravan manufacturers invalidate the warranty if the caravan is towed by a commercial vehicle.. The stiffer suspension can transmit damaging vibrations through the hitch to the caravan.
They will have a very hard time rejecting a warranty claim as CRA 2015 over rides any warranty!
My 2018 Elddis handbook states that the caravan has been designed to be towed behind a normal car. It goes on to say that if towing with a 4x4 extra should be taken due to the off road nature of the suspension. And also states that consumers should not tow their caravan with a commercial vehicle. I wonder how many cars can tow a 2000kg caravan safely?
However many dealers tow with pick up trucks? Anyway it is still the dealer that would be responsible!
A good many. If the manufacturer specifies a towload limit of 2000kg or more and does not add a caveat that a lower limit shall apply to towing a caravan, it is fair to assume that the limit is equally valid for caravans, too. After all, the manufacturer accepts full liability for his product which must be fit for the purpose.
Birtys, situation is that, the VAN can tow 2000 kg but it's Gross Train Weight is only 4040 kg.
Which means they cannot load the "van" to it's max gross weight, of 2640 kg if they want to tow the caravan at its MTPLM of 1890.kg.
Birty, as I mentioned in # 12 ask the dealer for a lighter caravan .
Which means they cannot load the "van" to it's max gross weight, of 2640 kg if they want to tow the caravan at its MTPLM of 1890.kg.
Birty, as I mentioned in # 12 ask the dealer for a lighter caravan .
That is correct, but how many can tow a 2000kg caravan safely i.e. the MIRO of the car is +2000kg.
Travelling around Europe you don’t see many large SUV tow cars and many outfits are towed by saloons and estates. You don’t find the motorways strewn with crashed caravans. Yet many outfits will be towing large, heavy German caravans.
Perhaps I did not make it clear, my reference was to the manufacturers warranty which as you well know is a contract between the customer and the manufacturer and not the same thing as the customer inalienable rights under the CRA which only applies to the seller and the customer.
As such the if the manufacturer does include a reference such as I describe, they can void their manufacturers warranty if a customer uses a commercial vehicle to tow the caravan. The question of what defines a commercial vehicle and how they square it and their use of commercial vehicles as part of their delivery process has ye to be challenged.
There is no contract between the manufacturer and the consumer unless the consumer was able to buy direct from the manufacturer. The responsibility lies with the supplier whether a dealer or a finance house.
My reference was to the Manufacturer's warranty, which is a contract established between the Manufacturer and the end user. The seller or dealer is only used as an intermediary.
If you wish to discuss this further I suggest you start a new thread.
In your wildest dreams as there is definitely NO contract between the manufacturer and the consumer. If you feel so confident that there is a contract, try it in court and see how far you get.
Quite a few now, surprisingly. The added weight of the battery in a PHEV has seen the weights of some estates snapping at the heels of large SUV’s
Whether a car can tow a caravan safely depends solely on the driver. It has nothing to do with the MIRO. As otherclive wrote, on the Continent you see lots of caravans being towed by cars at weight ratios of probably around 120% yet they don’t litter the roads.
But even before PHEV came along SUVs towing caravans in Europe were predominantly British. I recall talking to a German in a site in Shrewsbury about his outfit. It was a Passat estate towing a long single axle Hymer. By our standards it wouldn’t have been deemed acceptable, not illegal though. But he explained to me that it was perfectly legal and what’s more towed very well. This was prior to ATC coming along.
I never implied that the road were littered with crashed caravans however I did question the safety aspect if the caravan is heavier than the car.
The warranty is a free-of-charge contract offered by the manufacturer to the consumer - quite independent of the seller's responsibilities under CRA 2015.
That is correct, but there is still no contract between the manufacturer and the consumer which is whey the consumer needs to approach the dealership for any claim. Got that T shirt a few years ago.
Good morning,
Thought I would just chuck in an update as to where I am at, again appreciate all your comments/advice, never thought I could learn soo much about towing in a couple of days
1) Change Caravan - 10% likely - I spent a couple of days at the show, went with a list of about 20 caravans to look at and whittled it down to 2, the wife and kids then chose between the two. I think there is a reason we went with this caravan and that is because it meets all our needs/requirements. So changing the caravan is unlikely.
2) Upgrade to a bigger van - 20% likely - We could probably do with a bigger van to carry our stock, only thing holding me back on this one is finances.
3) Cancel and request return of deposit - 20 % likely - We ordered from a well know, reputable, family run dealership, with high turnovers, the t&c's in the contract look ok but i would need to get these verified legally, I'm still within my 14 days colling off period, so I "think" they might be fairly understanding - but this is not guaranteed, I am chasing them up for a response.
4) Continue as I am with some adjustments - 50% likely (although this has changed as i have done the math's below) - (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this) According to the official gov.uk site, my license allows me to tow up to 3.5 ton (tick) - the gov.uk website also specifically mentions the maximum tow weight, mine is 2,000 KG (tick) and the gross train weight, mine is 4,040 KG (half tick) so I suspect these are the "legal" requirements.
Sooo.... then it comes down to keeping the caravan and van less than that 4,040 KG by using.
The caravan on paper when it leaves the factory is 1,731 KG (might include 1 gas bottle?), add on the truma air con 33 KG and 4wd motor movers 74 KG and it already at 1,838 KG so that leaves about 52 KG (to the MTPLM of 1,890 KG) for gas/bed sheets/electric cables/wastemaster/aquaroll - so it is safe to assume I wont be able to have much else in the caravan.
The van on paper left the factory at 1,597 KG, I have had towbar fitted, wooden panels, extra seat etc so I need to get this weighed with a full tank of fuel but empty in the back this will then give me a final guide of how much I can carry in the van in terms of passengers and load to keep the total weight of caravan and van below the what looks to be legal train weight requirement of 4,040 KG.
So let just assume the weight of humans is approx 180 KG now but the kids are getting heavier, towbar approx. 20-35KG, panels and chair not sure but going to throw in about 30 KG. That is....
4040-1890-1597-180-35-30-60 (fuel) = 248 KG to play around with in the back of the van....(without getting it weighed properly) plus maybe about 110 KG left over from the Caravan.
So it is all very very close!
Thought I would just chuck in an update as to where I am at, again appreciate all your comments/advice, never thought I could learn soo much about towing in a couple of days
1) Change Caravan - 10% likely - I spent a couple of days at the show, went with a list of about 20 caravans to look at and whittled it down to 2, the wife and kids then chose between the two. I think there is a reason we went with this caravan and that is because it meets all our needs/requirements. So changing the caravan is unlikely.
2) Upgrade to a bigger van - 20% likely - We could probably do with a bigger van to carry our stock, only thing holding me back on this one is finances.
3) Cancel and request return of deposit - 20 % likely - We ordered from a well know, reputable, family run dealership, with high turnovers, the t&c's in the contract look ok but i would need to get these verified legally, I'm still within my 14 days colling off period, so I "think" they might be fairly understanding - but this is not guaranteed, I am chasing them up for a response.
4) Continue as I am with some adjustments - 50% likely (although this has changed as i have done the math's below) - (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this) According to the official gov.uk site, my license allows me to tow up to 3.5 ton (tick) - the gov.uk website also specifically mentions the maximum tow weight, mine is 2,000 KG (tick) and the gross train weight, mine is 4,040 KG (half tick) so I suspect these are the "legal" requirements.
Sooo.... then it comes down to keeping the caravan and van less than that 4,040 KG by using.
The caravan on paper when it leaves the factory is 1,731 KG (might include 1 gas bottle?), add on the truma air con 33 KG and 4wd motor movers 74 KG and it already at 1,838 KG so that leaves about 52 KG (to the MTPLM of 1,890 KG) for gas/bed sheets/electric cables/wastemaster/aquaroll - so it is safe to assume I wont be able to have much else in the caravan.
The van on paper left the factory at 1,597 KG, I have had towbar fitted, wooden panels, extra seat etc so I need to get this weighed with a full tank of fuel but empty in the back this will then give me a final guide of how much I can carry in the van in terms of passengers and load to keep the total weight of caravan and van below the what looks to be legal train weight requirement of 4,040 KG.
So let just assume the weight of humans is approx 180 KG now but the kids are getting heavier, towbar approx. 20-35KG, panels and chair not sure but going to throw in about 30 KG. That is....
4040-1890-1597-180-35-30-60 (fuel) = 248 KG to play around with in the back of the van....(without getting it weighed properly) plus maybe about 110 KG left over from the Caravan.
So it is all very very close!
Don't rely on the unladen weight of the van or the caravan to be 1597kg and 1731kg respectively. They are not the actual weights of each, but those that the manufacturers submitted for type approval. I have known of actual weights being significantly higher - up to 150kg is not unusual, more, of course, if you have had additional items fitted to the van. Therefore, especially as you will be sailing fairly close to the wind, you would be well advised to put both on a weighbridge.
If you are going forward with this caravan, check to see if you can get a weight upgrade on the MTPLM, this will at least give you an extra few KGs to stop you from being overweight.
Remember you will be needing things like plates , kitchen stuff etc, every little thing soon add weight to your van.
Thanks for your update, and good luck.
Remember you will be needing things like plates , kitchen stuff etc, every little thing soon add weight to your van.
Thanks for your update, and good luck.
There is if the dealer offers one, I know of a car dealer who does.
I don’t think that MTPLMs are the issue here. It’s more the gross train weight that’s the limiting factor.
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