Another noseweight problem!

[Angie_374313887]

We bought our first caravan last year.As we couldn't afford to change our car we spent months trawling the dealers to find a suitable van for our family.We asked all the questions we could think of and followed the advise given.

Subsequently we bought a recommended model and have been happily towing it for weekend getaways.

My problem is that a colleague lent me a nose weight gauge which we used.The nose weight on the van was measured at 85 kgs.Trouble is the limit on the towbar on my car is 70 kgs.

As our van weight is close to the maximum we tend to travel with the car more loaded than the van.Indeed we add little really to the van but we do travel with the wheel clamp,awning pegs,waste water etc in the front holder.The only real weight in the rear of the van is a porch awning,and the spare wheel underneath.

I am now worried that despite all our research and following the advise from the proffessionals,we have made an expensive mistake.I cannot really afford to change my car,and desperately dont want to sell my van.Would loading it diferently make enough of a difference or is there anything else I can do?

As a new caravanner I would appreciate any help greatly.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I have this problem with the Oklahoma and unladen its over 100kg noseweight.

I have to load under the fixed bed which goes against previous practice but you have to consider that in the traditional rear kitchen layout you could have the toilet,fridge and cooker all at the back instead of the void that is under the fixed bed

Stability seems OK allowing for the length of the van so long as the speed limit is observed on motorways !!

 

[Angie_374313887]

Thanks Watson,

I think I read your thread on that elsewhere on the forum.

Maybe if I load it differently-taking as much out of the front locker as possible that might help?

If I cannot get the noseweight down below the 70 kg am I technically illegal to drive ?

 

[Lutz]

Technically it would be illegal, yes, but there are always ways of adding counterbalancing ballast at the back if there is no other alternative.

 

[Angie_374313887]

Technically it would be illegal, yes, but there are always ways of adding counterbalancing ballast at the back if there is no other alternative.

Thanks. I am due off tommorow for a long weekend.Will take the gauge and have a go at loading it differently.Also,although the surface was level we were on gravel when I took the reading so maybe it will be more accurate on tarmac.

 

[GrahamPonty]

Angie, Try putting the awning, waste water container, fresh water container, wheel clamp, inside the van over the axle, do a nose weight check if it is still showing a high reading move the items back a couple of inches then check nose weight again.

Hope this helps

Graham (Ponty)

 

[Angie_374313887]

Yes,thank-you that does help.I just hope I can get a better reading.

I so wish I had known more about this when buying my van.I feel like a fool,but honestly thought I'd done all the research on all aspects beforehand-my local dealer was sick of seeing me after a while!

Many thanks for the responses,

Angie

 

[SteveW77]

Better to feel a fool, than act like one and ignore a dangerously loaded van. Never be afraid to ask for advice, as we all can learn something, no matter how clever we think we are.

Steve W

 

[Angie_374313887]

Thanks Steve.

Am supposed to be taking the van away tommorrow.Have started by removing all unneccessary weight from the front locker as suggested,and load it over the axles.

Going to get it on flat tarmac,choc the wheels and take a reading then.

Am also going to buy my own noseweight gauge as the one I borrowed is very old and a bit dented so may not be very accurate.

Wish me luck!!

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I doubted my noseweight gauge and so I bought a new one

Joy it showed 85Kg so I could put more stuff in the front locker

The more I put in the more it refused to read more so I checked with the bathroom scales and they went right round the clock to 20stone plus.

The nose weight gauge went back for a replacement and that confirmed that the noseweight was excessive

The front locker now contains a lot less and some things stored in there are transferred to the car boot or between the car seats for towing

 

[GrahamPonty]

Hi Angie, You did not say what make and model your car and caravan are that might help in sorting out your problem. I'm sure somebody on this forum with a lot more knowledge than myself will be able to give you advice on this matter.

I know from experiance if you have to much weight in the front locker even in the overhead locker above the window inside the caravan can give you a very high reading. My wife bless her loaded the overhead locker with tins of peas, peaches, rice pudding, you name if we had it, now everything is placed in a box on the floor near the axle along with the awning, microwave, water containers x 2 wastwater container, groundsheets etc etc.

I'm sure you can overcome this problem with the right advice from others on this forum.

Chin up

Graham (Ponty)

 

[GrahamPonty]

Hi Angie, You did not say what make and model your car and caravan are that might help in sorting out your problem. I'm sure somebody on this forum with a lot more knowledge than myself will be able to give you advice on this matter.

I know from experiance if you have to much weight in the front locker even in the overhead locker above the window inside the caravan can give you a very high reading. My wife bless her loaded the overhead locker with tins of peas, peaches, rice pudding, you name if we had it, now everything is placed in a box on the floor near the axle along with the awning, microwave, water containers x 2 wastwater container, groundsheets etc etc.

I'm sure you can overcome this problem with the right advice from others on this forum.

Chin up

Graham (Ponty)

Ps, you can also check the nose weight with a bathroom scales, get a piece of wood about 16" inches long place the scales on the floor under the hitch then place the wood under the hitch and on top of the scales, I use to use an old cricket stump before I bought a guage. Let me know how you are doing.

Cheers

Graham (Ponty)

 

[Angie_374313887]

Thanks again for the replies.

My car is a Fiat Multipla 1.9 jtd (maximum trailer weight 1300)

The caravan is a bailey ranger 550/6 m.t.p.l.m 1298.

We needed a 6 birth van,and although this is closer to our max than we would of wanted after much research we were advised that the 200 kg allowance for payload assummes most people will pack thier van before travel and carry heavyish items such as televisions,microwaves etc.

To avoid getting too close to our limit we pack relatively little in our van aside from normal kitchen equipment and limited clothes-prefering to put more weight in the car as this was what we were advised was safer.We have a lightweight porch awning that travels under the rear bunks.

I do wonder if in trying to keep weight down in the van generally we have inadvertantly loaded too much in the front.It was surprising how heavy just the bag of awning pegs was!

 

[GrahamPonty]

Hi Angie, I'm no expert but going on the weight of your car and caravan with just the bag of awning pegs in the front locker and nothing else in the caravan you are towing at 100% weight ratio.

I have just had a look on the www.whattowcar.com website and this is what it says:

The match between car and caravan is plausible in accordance with a mix of European standards. However, according to the British Towing Code the percentage (loaded caravan / kerbweight tow car) is 94%.

I don't know what dealer you bought your van from but to be honest I think they were being a bit irresponsible, knowing you were new to caravaning they should never have sold you a caravan of that weight ratio with your car.

My earlier suggestion of putting items over the axle like the awning, water containers etc etc would put the caravan well over the 100% weight ratio, I don't know what to suggest now except I think you need to change your car or get a smaller caravan. I'm sure somebody else on this forum will step in and correct me if i'm wrong and give you more advice.

Hope this helps

Graham (Ponty)

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi angie

dont worry too much about the van being about 100% tow weight many ,many of us tow above 95% without any problems I myself will be setting off at the w/end for cornwall with a outfit thats at 98% the only criteria you need to worry about is the cars max gross train weight if the complete unit is less than this you are legal to tow it.

the dealers are probably correct in advising you to get a bailey as these are probably the lightest van around for the relevent size and I doubt that you could have got a van of similar size at the weight the last 5+ mtr 6 berth I looked at was 2000 kg so @1298 mtplm lightly loaded the bailey will probably come in around 1180kg and thats well under the max tow level of the 1.9ltr diesel multipla.

as for nose weight there are lots of ways to get this down some mentioned allready however some that might not have been thought of like where is the hot water system if its under the front bunk (like mine ) make sure its empty when towing as water is heavy like wise if the toilet is rearward make sure the flush tank is full ect also if your van has space for two gas bottles

carry one full and one m/t and get a refill when you get to your destination a full gas cylider (7kg type weighes 16kg full) think about what you load and where you load it put most heavy things behind the wheels (shopping in a box on the floor instead of in the cupboards ect, -YOU WILL FIND THE BEST WAY TO LOAD THE VAN WITH PRACTICE- I promise you, just keep trying till you get it right.

I hope this helps

colin

 

[Angie_374313887]

Thank-you Graham and Colin,

Graham, we knew that weight was a concern.However the dealer reaasured us that as long as we didn't load the van fully and carry heavy items such as a television we would get no-where near the 1298,which is the theory we've worked on so far.We estimate that we add less than 100 kgs of weight when we load.This advise was from more than one dealer,one of whom said he knew of a customer who had the same outfit and had no problems.With us being new to caravanning we did take thier advise.I wish I had known about this site then as we may have arrived at a different conclusion.

I do think though,having said that,that it would be sensible for me to take the van to a weighbridge so I can have a more accurate idea.

Colin,thanks for the advise on loading.I only carry one gas canister,and do ensure water tank is empty etc. Food items such as tins we have until now carried in the car,however maybe placing them on the floor as suggested may help with the nose weight.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me with this.

Thank-you,

Angie

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Angie,

You are right to be concerned about the nose weight of the caravan as it is one of the legally enforceable elements of towing. But don't be too worried because I am sure that by relocating some or all of the items in the front locker (except the gas bottle which must be carrier their) you will be quite able to reduce the nose load.

It may help to realise that the weights in the caravan act in just the same way as a see saw. For every 1Kg you can remove from the nose then the nose is reduced by 1Kg, but if you then place that item at the back of the caravan, then the nose reduces further by about 1Kg because of the see saw effect. So in practice you only need to move about 7.5Kg of excess nose weight and relocate it at the back of the caravan.

As has already been suggested it may be necessary to move some of the heavier items such as the awning a bit further back in the caravan. I think you should be able to bring your nose load down quite effectively.

As for the overall towing weights, The Fiat is technically capable of towing the Bailey ranger 550/6 with 2kg to spare! The MPTLM of 1298Kg includes the payload which Bailey set as 240Kg - Now that must include every thing that you add to the caravan including gas bottle, battery, cooking pans and personal belongings. That is quite a tight limit for 6 people!

You should also check the maximum load for the car, as it is designed for 6 people hopefully it is sufficiently generous - but please check.

If weight is still a problem, then consider only taking enough food and drink for the journey and breakfast the next morning, then make it a prime job for eth first day to visit the local shops to buy your provisions - It might surprise you how much weight you can save that way.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Angie.

The nose weight is a legal point of towing law as the others have stated and you must be within the 70Kgs.

If having moved all the items except the gas bottle out of the front locker and you still find your nose weight to be over,there is one lastresort to try.

Now obviously I'm aware that your van is very much on the limit of the car's tow capacity, so do be carefull. But you could partially fill your aqual roll and secure it inside the van to the rear of the axle but not right at the back of the van.

If you do have to do this, I would then at your earilest convienience go back to your dealer who sold you the van and show them what you have to do, as they need to understand your predicament.

One other tip would be to weigh your car and van on a public weigh bridge to actually establish what the van weighs on it's own when loaded and also what the gross train weight is. This will once and for all confirm what the weights are at that moment of measuring. To obtain the true gross train, have the car and van fully loaded with all occupants and luggage and don't forget a full tank of fuel as that can add 100Kgs to the figure. Most farmers merchants also have a weighbridge that can be used.

Good luck.

Steve L.

P.S. I tow at 100% of our Renault Laguna's tow capacity and the outfit is very stable with 75Kgs of hitch weight.

 

[Gwilym_374316238]

Better to feel a fool, than act like one and ignore a dangerously loaded van. Never be afraid to ask for advice, as we all can learn something, no matter how clever we think we are.

Steve W

Nice one Steve,