automatic -v-manual

[JTQ]

Quoting Gary "If your car's clutch lasts less than 100k theres something wrong"

Though not ever need one myself I have changed quite a few for other poeple well short of 100k miles. Ask any garage owner.

What is wrong is that the cars they chose were designed as passenger cars not towing vehicles. The clutch when towing is having to dissipate nearly twice energy it was intended to deal with and not supprisingly it does not like it.

Given using a vehicle that is designed primarily to tow near to its own mass again then the clutch should be fine for the job.

 

[cris_408518]

Can't say I've done a clutch change for many a year. But years ago there was often a choice re regular or heavy duty clutch's.

Cars that had van variants or estate versions that carried heavier loads often had the HD versions.

I thing Gary idea on clutch life is some what optimistic just go to any clutch centre to find out!

Trad auto has the torque converter to cope with higher loads, if you get into hilly or difficult pull away sittuation with a manual you have to rely on the driver and slipping the clutch at times. The manual just can't really compete.

A lot depends on when and here you tow to.

 

[Mike_5041089]

Couldn't agree more with auto advocates. Started vanning 21 years ago, towed with manuals for about 10 years, now I'm the wrong side of 50 an auto is the only answer. Modern autos are almost as economical as manuals, and combined with cruise control, they make towing so very easy and more economical. Make sure you have at least a 2.0 litre engine though, as a smaller engined car may struggle a bit. Diesel autos are even better as their greater low rev torque makes them ideal for auto towing.

 

[Guest]

Just a comment on the question of engine braking with an auto. They do have it, or at least mine does. It is all to do with these computer thingies. The 'brain' decides if the car is moving outwith the normal speeds and changes itself down, a bit like using the lock down when going down steep hills. The first time it happened I admit I was looking around trying to figure out what I had done, then realised that it was not me at all.

Towing with a manual shouldn't be beyond the majority of cars provided the trailer weight is within the guidelines. Where some problems can occur is on hill starts, especially if the vehicle has a high first gear (Ford's were known for this).

 

[DavidW1]

Just a comment on the question of engine braking with an auto. They do have it, or at least mine does. It is all to do with these computer thingies. The 'brain' decides if the car is moving outwith the normal speeds and changes itself down, a bit like using the lock down when going down steep hills. The first time it happened I admit I was looking around trying to figure out what I had done, then realised that it was not me at all.

Towing with a manual shouldn't be beyond the majority of cars provided the trailer weight is within the guidelines. Where some problems can occur is on hill starts, especially if the vehicle has a high first gear (Ford's were known for this).

Both our cars handbooks - Modern Micra and elderly Isuzu - specify disengaging OD to achieve " a measure of engine braking when negotiating downslopes" You can actually feel it dragging you back - quite markedly in the big slow revving Isuzu's case.

 

[margaret_374236562]

Wow....I was really impressed with your answers and agree that auto is brilliant for driving but have to agree with LOL that towing a caravan with a manual gearbox may be better. Why I say that is because last year the gearbox "melted" on our Peugeot 406 whilst towing our Sterling Europa on the journey from Spain to Portugal.....a nightmare and it cost us

 

[cris_408518]

I would like to know what they were experts at Margaret !

As they are very very far from being right !

As we've quite a lot of experience in our business towing heavy trailers long distances with Shoguns and Pajero imports I wish you luck as the Auto is a far better tow car.

 

[margaret_374236562]

I would like to know what they were experts at Margaret !

As they are very very far from being right !

As we've quite a lot of experience in our business towing heavy trailers long distances with Shoguns and Pajero imports I wish you luck as the Auto is a far better tow car.

I am sure you are right Cris about autos but having had our dreadful experience with our automatic gearbox melting whilst towing, we are going to give the manual a try.....will report back in April when we come back from Portugal.

 

[Hamer_5041128]

There is a big difference between a Peugot 406 auto and a Shogun /Pajero auto. I wish so called experts, who do not have much knowledge of the subject, kept their opinions to themselves. The Pajero /Shogun witjh auto is designed to tow 3200kgs, well above what any caravanner would tow. Also in certain driving conditions it has been proven that the auto can be more economical than a manual.

There are auto boxes designed for mainly solo work and auto boxes in big 4x4s designed to pull maximum weights, especially newer type auto boxes.

Hamer

 

[margaret_374236562]

There is a big difference between a Peugot 406 auto and a Shogun /Pajero auto. I wish so called experts, who do not have much knowledge of the subject, kept their opinions to themselves. The Pajero /Shogun witjh auto is designed to tow 3200kgs, well above what any caravanner would tow. Also in certain driving conditions it has been proven that the auto can be more economical than a manual.

There are auto boxes designed for mainly solo work and auto boxes in big 4x4s designed to pull maximum weights, especially newer type auto boxes.

Hamer

Thanks again for all your comments.....much appreciated

 

[Guest]

Margaret,

You have not answered the key question.

Which will you choose?

 

[xtrailman]

There is o clear answer to your question.

To make a blanket statement that all autos are better than manuals for towing is clearly misleading.

It depends on what car you are referring too, for example. The xtrail only fits an auto to the petrol version.

This in turn has a max tow of 1350kg (or close to), while the 2.2dci Manuel has a max tow of 2000kg. (Both braked trailers).

Obviously Nissan do not consider the auto unto towing the same load limits as the Manuel.

Probably because the design limits of the auto box come below the 231 pound feet of torque produced by the diesel?

So if the question were what was the best xtrail for towing, the answer I would give would be the Manuel diesel.

 

[cliff_5040076]

Well you learn something every day.

I didn't know that there were 2 types of auto box as Hamer as pointed out.

One designed mainly for solo work and another designed to pull maximum weights.

I've never seen this pointed out in any manufacturers brochure so how to you know if you have the right type?

Or more to the point, how do you know if you have the wrong type?

 

[Catcher]

I'm on my first automatic and really like it (I always said I would never have an automatic!). I do find that you have to 'drive' it a bit when towing. Using kick down on anticipation of a hill to change down and gently easing off the accelerator a little to make it change up when the auto tends to hang on to a lower gear.

Just one point - one or two have mentioned using Tiptronic when towing. My handbook (Honda Accord) advises against the use of the Tiptronic when towing. This is a pity as I'm sure I'd find it useful.

 

[Hamer_5041128]

Cliff,

As Ray points out the x-trail is a case in point of an auto not really designed for towing, as the auto can only tow 600kgs approx less than the manual. With the Shogun and some other vehicles the auto has the same towing limit as the manual.

I would always beware of an auto with a much lower towing limit than a manual.

Hamer

 

[Lol1]

There is a big difference between a Peugot 406 auto and a Shogun /Pajero auto. I wish so called experts, who do not have much knowledge of the subject, kept their opinions to themselves. The Pajero /Shogun witjh auto is designed to tow 3200kgs, well above what any caravanner would tow. Also in certain driving conditions it has been proven that the auto can be more economical than a manual.

There are auto boxes designed for mainly solo work and auto boxes in big 4x4s designed to pull maximum weights, especially newer type auto boxes.

Hamer

Hamer, I think you will find there are very few driving conditions where the auto will be more economical than a manual, very few indeed, if any. In fact the only time when it will be more economical is when the gearing is ideally suited to that particular stretch of road. All down to mechanical losses, I'm afraid, and that included CVTs. However, you can have an auto that is faster accelerating than a manual, if that helps in any way?

 

[cris_408518]

Some of the tiptronic type autos are surely a manual style gear box with an electronic clutch that operates when you snick the gear lever up or down or has changes made by electronics and the electric clutch when in auto mode.

Other newer Autos of the taditional fluid type with torque converters have "tip function" whith a simple back and forth gear stick to change manualy rather than the older style 1 -2 -3 - 4 if you wanted to change and hold a gear.

My understanding is that some of the tiptronics with electronic clutches are not really suited to towing caravans.