Awning flooring and heating

[JanBn]

Just about to start our 2nd season of caravanning and we have decided to invest in an awning (eventually made a decision after all your awning advice given last summer B) thank you)
But what I would like to ask if anyone uses an awning heater and if so any recommendations - don't want to blow the hook up an also what different types of flooring would anyone recommend.
I know some people frown on using a heater outside, but given my husband's immobility and paralysis he gets very cold and a blanket is simply not enough, but he doesn't want to miss out on joining in when we gather outside.
Also the flooring needs to be flat enough so as not to trip him up any ideas would be gratefully received Thank you

 

[alan29]

When we camped we used to use one of those little fan heaters and put it on the lowest 1kw setting. It did the trick!
This sort of thing
http://www.argos.co.uk/product/4153238

 

[JanBn]

Thank you, I looked at something like that but didn't know if
a. it was powerful enough and
b. what wattage would be safe to use on hookup
so if you used one it obviously didn't trip the hook up

When we camped we used to use one of those little fan heaters and put it on the lowest 1kw setting. It did the trick!
This sort of thing
http://www.argos.co.uk/product/4153238

 

[Craigyoung]

Yes, I agree with Alan , the same sort of thing we used to have but when we went to buy a new one we bought a new van instead and yet still haven't bought another fan !! Prepare for some criticism for having a heater for the awning mind like i did .

Craig . :huh:

 

[otherclive]

We don't heat the awning but I understand your need to do so. Some of our friends use the halogen light heaters which they say are effective and not too heavy. If you look at Towsure website you will see a number of different types some more suitable for the awning than others. I assume that your power lead will come from a point inside the caravan which will necessitate an extension cable. If so make sure the cable is not used when wound up as they can overheat so unwind it. Also awnings do let in wet or suffer condensation so make sure the heater is protected from water. Let it cool down cover it with a waterproof or take it inside if not bring used.

 

[Dustydog]

Jan,
Be aware some sites will charge for using a heater in the awning. Assuming you need to heat the awning you will no doubt to also keep the caravan warm too. On a 16 amp EHU you will have 3680 watts available. The caravan equipment alone can soon eat into your maximum watts available. More so if the EHU is only 10amps. I agree a 1kw infra red electric fire may suit your hubby’s needs. Just make sure it has a safety switch fitted on its base. If it topples over power is cut immediately.
Awnings are very drafty so you will struggle to warm it up much.
As for flooring we use a breathable ground sheet available from all good dealers in lengths of your choice. In addition we use the flexible squares that interlink. Ours came from Aldi.

https://www.towsure.com/grass-effect-easy-lock-flooring-tiles?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrez17ayA2QIVpbftCh36EAOXEAQYAyABEgJ3qvD_BwE

 

[JanBn]

Hi Thank you, that all sounds good advice I will do some research into prices for the type of heater you mentioned etc.....think I saw some of those squares in a price cutter shop recently...will take a look....did wonder about those...and thank you for putting into ‘understandable’ terms how many watts 16 Amps gives, I can never work it out :blink: :lol:
I do have a load meter incorporated into the van to prevent overload, but I’d rather know.
The only time we use electric, apart from the Alde heating is a coffee machine and the tv (the lights are low watt LEDs ..so hopefully shouldn’t overload? But thanks for the really great advice

Jan,
Be aware some sites will charge for using a heater in the awning. Assuming you need to heat the awning you will no doubt to also keep the caravan warm too. On a 16 amp EHU you will have 3680 watts available. The caravan equipment alone can soon eat into your maximum watts available. More so if the EHU is only 10amps. I agree a 1kw infra red electric fire may suit your hubby’s needs. Just make sure it has a safety switch fitted on its base. If it topples over power is cut immediately.
Awnings are very drafty so you will struggle to warm it up much.
As for flooring we use a breathable ground sheet available from all good dealers in lengths of your choice. In addition we use the flexible squares that interlink. Ours came from Aldi.

]https://www.towsure.com/grass-effect-easy-lock-flooring-tiles?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrez17ayA2QIVpbftCh36EAOXEAQYAyABEgJ3qvD_BwE

https://www.towsure.com/grass-effec...ayA2QIVpbftCh36EAOXEAQYAyABEgJ3qvD_BwE[/quote

 

[Icaru5]

don't want to blow the hook up

Made me smile

 

[zoaman]

We use a kampa carpet.We found it very cosy and soft to the touch.We have in the past to heat a awning a gas fire.Basically its a small botle approx 2kg mostly for the weight(to stop it toppling over) and like a satellite dish looking mantle style heater screw onto the top.Ok if just adults.but would be a bit weary if there where younger children about.or something like this.
ebay number 122374022258

 

[Craigyoung]

Never have I been on the site where I have seen a sign saying they charge extra for awning heaters?

 

[JanBn]

Thank you, I will take a look at that website, I do have an ‘outside’ power point in the side locker underneath the front seating area which will be inside the awning, so can plug into that, rather than have an extension lead, less obstacles for OH to trip over :dry: .
But understand the need to unwind fully if using one....I get paranoid about my mains cable being looped when on hookup :lol:
Good info on the dampness, I will bear that in mind, could possible put it away in the locker I mentioned earlier, where it will plug into .....
After it cools of course B) haha ...
Thank you again for advice.

We don't heat the awning but I understand your need to do so. Some of our friends use the halogen light heaters which they say are effective and not too heavy. If you look at Towsure website you will see a number of different types some more suitable for the awning than others. I assume that your power lead will come from a point inside the caravan which will necessitate an extension cable. If so make sure the cable is not used when wound up as they can overheat so unwind it. Also awnings do let in wet or suffer condensation so make sure the heater is protected from water. Let it cool down cover it with a waterproof or take it inside if not bring used.

 

[JanBn]

I looked at the Kampa Carpets online. I wondered whether they would be loose on the floor and Husband likely to trip on it....unless they can be pegged down?? I’ve also read if it rains the water seeps up through them, have you found this to be the case? We are buying an ‘all weather’ awning to extend the season as late as possible, so could be damp ground :dry: ....I’m so new to this ...it’s a minefield when trying to make decisions that won’t involve costly mistakes and having to buy twice :lol:
Also I think I saw the type of gas fire you mentioned, but was concerned of carbon monoxide build up under an awning....or am I talking utter rubbish ? :silly:

We use a kampa carpet.We found it very cosy and soft to the touch.We have in the past to heat a awning a gas fire.Basically its a small botle approx 2kg mostly for the weight(to stop it toppling over) and like a satellite dish looking mantle style heater screw onto the top.Ok if just adults.but would be a bit weary if there where younger children about.or something like this.
ebay number 122374022258

 

[JanBn]

Wondered how they would police that? Can just imagine someone patrolling in the evening peeping into awnings :lol: .....can imagine the news headlines
Though although I haven’t come across that yet myself, I can see how site owners would quickly catch onto charging extra as some sites I’ve been on charge you electric separately and the very first one we used last year you had to tell them in advance how much you wanted putting on the meter and you would top up as you needed it....was really surprised how little electric we used considering the cost difference between hookup and non electric pitches I’ve seen in some sites :huh:

Never have I been on the site where I have seen a sign saying they charge extra for awning heaters?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Your Husband has rather specific needs, and I do wonder if an alternative approach might be considered.

As has been said awnings can be quite draughty, and certainly at low level there can be quite a large exchange of air, becasue often the skirt doesn't fit very well along the bottom of the caravan wall, and the bottom of zips provide draught points.

The material of the awning does provide a barrier to the free passage of air, but being relatively thin, it will allow heat to conduct through the thickness of the material, and more so if it is damp.

All this means that to really heat up the whole awning will require a substantial heat input (kw of power).

If you heat the air, with a convector heater the warmest air will collect at the top of the awning, and the draughts at floor level will be quite noticeable. Cold feet is a well documented problem for people with restricted mobility.

The one advantage of a fan heater, is that when air is blown along a surface, as long as the air has horizontal motion it will tend to roll along the surface. The further it goes the slower it will become and eventually its natural buoyancy will cause it to break away from the surface and rise. If the blown air encounters an obstruction it will slow it down with the same consequences.

The third type of heater is a radiator. There are some multi-fin oil filled radiators, and these do produce some radiant heat but most of it is turned into convected heat. Radiant heat is just like light, It will travel in a straight line from the emitter to surface or object that faces it. It is only effective if you can see the heater. In teh case of radiant heaters it will heat the object in view of the heater. With any of these types of heating it will be difficult to keep them focused on keeping your husband warm.

My alternative suggestion is to consider a heated blanket. This will be a low wattage device, and you husband can wrap up in it as much or as little as required.

We shouldn't also forget the benefit of dressing properly for cold weather

I cannot stress enough how dangerous it is to use any appliance with an open flame in an awning. Apart from the obvious fire risk, the enclosed nature of an awning will quickly start to fill up with the products of combustion. This will contain some Carbon Monoxide (the silent odourless killer) and as it builds up it will cause any burner to produce even more CO. The same applies to BBQ's which produce masses of the gas. OPen flames on an awning are definitely a No No

 

[JanBn]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, as you pointed out there are pros and cons to the different types and an open flame one would not have been an option, but the Heated blanket could be exactly the answer . When we’ve used our little event tent, I’ve always wrapped him warmly and placed a large fleecy blanket around him and his legs, but the heated option with maybe the back up of a fan heater for chillier evenings I think is the way to go ....thank you for thinking this through logically for us. Your explanation was very thorough ...so if you are ever on a campsite and see this poor guy wrapped up in layers of blankets and a heated one....come over and say hello :lol:

Your Husband has rather specific needs, and I do wonder if an alternative approach might be considered.

As has been said awnings can be quite draughty, and certainly at low level there can be quite a large exchange of air, becasue often the skirt doesn't fit very well along the bottom of the caravan wall, and the bottom of zips provide draught points.

The material of the awning does provide a barrier to the free passage of air, but being relatively thin, it will allow heat to conduct through the thickness of the material, and more so if it is damp.

All this means that to really heat up the whole awning will require a substantial heat input (kw of power).

If you heat the air, with a convector heater the warmest air will collect at the top of the awning, and the draughts at floor level will be quite noticeable. Cold feet is a well documented problem for people with restricted mobility.

The one advantage of a fan heater, is that when air is blown along a surface, as long as the air has horizontal motion it will tend to roll along the surface. The further it goes the slower it will become and eventually its natural buoyancy will cause it to break away from the surface and rise. If the blown air encounters an obstruction it will slow it down with the same consequences.

The third type of heater is a radiator. There are some multi-fin oil filled radiators, and these do produce some radiant heat but most of it is turned into convected heat. Radiant heat is just like light, It will travel in a straight line from the emitter to surface or object that faces it. It is only effective if you can see the heater. In teh case of radiant heaters it will heat the object in view of the heater. With any of these types of heating it will be difficult to keep them focused on keeping your husband warm.

My alternative suggestion is to consider a heated blanket. This will be a low wattage device, and you husband can wrap up in it as much or as little as required.

We shouldn't also forget the benefit of dressing properly for cold weather

I cannot stress enough how dangerous it is to use any appliance with an open flame in an awning. Apart from the obvious fire risk, the enclosed nature of an awning will quickly start to fill up with the products of combustion. This will contain some Carbon Monoxide (the silent odourless killer) and as it builds up it will cause any burner to produce even more CO. The same applies to BBQ's which produce masses of the gas. OPen flames on an awning are definitely a No No

 

[Dustydog]

Never have I been on the site where I have seen a sign saying they charge extra for awning heaters?

Lucky. A number of sites in recent years have started charging for awning heaters. There are two we use in Shropshire that charge £5.00 a night for heating the air :woohoo:

 

[JanBn]

hmy: hmy: lol I suspect it’s when they start charging you for breathing it we have to worry :lol:

Never have I been on the site where I have seen a sign saying they charge extra for awning heaters?

Lucky. A number of sites in recent years have started charging for awning heaters. There are two we use in Shropshire that charge £5.00 a night for heating the air :woohoo:

 

[Buckman]

Never have I been on the site where I have seen a sign saying they charge extra for awning heaters?

Lucky. A number of sites in recent years have started charging for awning heaters. There are two we use in Shropshire that charge £5.00 a night for heating the air :woohoo:

IMHO they should charge £10 or more a night if using an electric heater in an awning. John has it right suggesting an electric blanket. We used to have a gas heater in the awning but then we were on a seasonal site so not an issue having a large 45kg bottle inside the awning.

 

[ProfJohnL]

IMHO they should charge £10 or more a night if using an electric heater in an awning. John has it right suggesting an electric blanket. We used to have a gas heater in the awning but then we were on a seasonal site so not an issue having a large 45kg bottle inside the awning.

How do you work that charge £10 out?

And are you not aware of the real danger of fumes from using any combustion based heater in an awning?

 

[Buckman]

IMHO they should charge £10 or more a night if using an electric heater in an awning. John has it right suggesting an electric blanket. We used to have a gas heater in the awning but then we were on a seasonal site so not an issue having a large 45kg bottle inside the awning.

How do you work that charge £10 out?
And are you not aware of the real danger of fumes from using any combustion based heater in an awning?

Sorry should have said £10 or more as responsible people should not be using electric heaters in their awnings! We used a gas heater in our awning for over 2 1/2 years and we are still here. No awning is air tight and there is plenty of circulation of air as warm air will rise to be replaced by fresh cool air from the outside through all the gaps in an awning.

 

[Parksy]

IMHO they should charge £10 or more a night if using an electric heater in an awning. John has it right suggesting an electric blanket. We used to have a gas heater in the awning but then we were on a seasonal site so not an issue having a large 45kg bottle inside the awning.

How do you work that charge £10 out?
And are you not aware of the real danger of fumes from using any combustion based heater in an awning?

Sorry should have said £10 or more as responsible people should not be using electric heaters in their awnings! We used a gas heater in our awning for over 2 1/2 years and we are still here. No awning is air tight and there is plenty of circulation of air as warm air will rise to be replaced by fresh cool air from the outside through all the gaps in an awning.

There is a very real danger from carbon monoxide poisoning from fumes given off by any fuel burning appliance used inside an awning or a tent.
Caravan gas appliances have flues which vent potentially lethal fumes to the outside atmosphere, and even though an awning may not be completely airtight any occupants could fall asleep and be poisoned if they used a gas heater or barbecue inside their awning. Most authoritative sources warn of the dangers of fuel burning devices inside awnings or tents, so disregard the comments highlighted in red!

 

[Buckman]

Parksy's advice is very sound however I cannot wonder why we still have people living on this island of ours as many years ago it was quite common to have wood and coal fire burning the rooms. When this was modernised to gas, people had gas fires burning in their dinning room areas. I don't recall many people dying from being gassed? What has changed between then and now?
Please I am not disputing the advice given in the previous post.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Awnings can be quite draughty, but mainly around the bottom, the op section of an awning when its zipped up tight will mange to contain fumes, particularly as they will be lighter than air due to their temperature and make up.

There have been a number of cases reported by authoritative sources where the occupants of an awning or caravan have been poisoned by CO from an open flame heating appliance brought into the awning, BBQ's are especially major producers of CO.

CO is a colourless and odourless gas, It combines just as easily as Oxygen with our red blood cells, but it is reluctant to disconnect from them, so effectively clogs up our bloods ability to carry oxygen and can lead to asphyxiation. (Added comment)This can mean that the effects are cumulative and can build up over several exposures to low doses.

When a flame burns in a restricted space it uses up oxygen from the air, and the percentage of oxygen reduces the flame cannot burn cleanly resulting in the flame producing an increasing rate of noxious fumes.

The ancients found it necessary to make a hole in the apex of their homes to allow fumes out, Houses with open fires have a purpose designed flue to enable the fumes to leave,

Awnings and tents do not have chimneys, so it cannot guarantee to allow fumes to escape.

9Fainal comment replaced with) Just because you have survived a particular hazard by chance, does not remove the hazard.

 

[otherclive]

Parksy's advice is very sound however I cannot wonder why we still have people living on this island of ours as many years ago it was quite common to have wood and coal fire burning the rooms. When this was modernised to gas, people had gas fires burning in their dinning room areas. I don't recall many people dying from being gassed? What has changed between then and now?
Please I am not disputing the advice given in the previous post.

If you are not disputing Parksy’s advice then what is the point that you are seeking to convey?

 

[Buckman]

I was asking a question. Are we not allowed to ask a question as I do not know the answer regarding fires in homes?