Axe the tax with facts!

Aug 4, 2004
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Following is a sample of some of the scientists and other experts who actually worked for the IPCC as contributors / editors / reviewers and have publicly expressed their scepticism about the IPCC "process."
Dr Robert Balling: "The IPCC notes that "No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected." (This did not appear in the IPCC Summary for Policymakers).
Dr. Lucka Bogataj: "Rising levels of airborne carbon dioxide don't cause global temperatures to rise.... temperature changed first and some 700 years later a change in aerial content of carbon dioxide followed."
Dr John Christy: "Little known to the public is the fact that most of the scientists involved with the IPCC do not agree that global warming is occurring. Its findings have been consistently misrepresented and/or politicized with each succeeding report."
Dr Rosa Compagnucci: "Humans have only contributed a few tenths of a degree to warming on Earth. Solar activity is a key driver of climate."
Dr Richard Courtney: "The empirical evidence strongly indicates that the anthropogenic global warming hypothesis is wrong."
Dr Judith Curry: "I'm not going to just spout off and endorse the IPCC because I don't have confidence in the process."
Dr Robert Davis: "Global temperatures have not been changing as state of the art climate models predicted they would. Not a single mention of satellite temperature observations appears in the (IPCC) Summary for Policymakers."
Dr Willem de Lange: "In 1996, the IPCC listed me as one of approximately 3,000 "scientists" who agreed that there was a discernable human influence on climate. I didn't. There is no evidence to support the hypothesis that runaway catastrophic climate change is due to human activities."
Dr Chris de Freitas: "Government decision-makers should have heard by now that the basis for the longstanding claim that carbon dioxide is a major driver of global climate is being questioned; along with it the hitherto assumed need for costly measures to restrict carbon dioxide emissions. If they have not heard, it is because of the din of global warming hysteria that relies on the logical fallacy of 'argument from ignorance' and predictions of computer models."
Dr Oliver Frauenfeld: "Much more progress is necessary regarding our current understanding of climate and our abilities to model it."
Dr Peter Dietze: "Using a flawed eddy diffusion model, the IPCC has grossly underestimated the future oceanic carbon dioxide uptake."
Dr John Everett: "It is time for a reality check. The oceans and coastal zones have been far warmer and colder than is projected in the present scenarios of climate change. I have reviewed the IPCC and more recent scientific literature and believe that there is not a problem with increased acidification, even up to the unlikely levels in the most-used IPCC scenarios."
Dr Eigil Friis-Christensen: "The IPCC refused to consider the sun's effect on the Earth's climate as a topic worthy of investigation. The IPCC conceived its task only as investigating potential human causes of climate change."
Dr Lee Gerhard: "I never fully accepted or denied the anthropogenic global warming (AGW) concept until the furor started after [NASA's James] Hansen's wild claims in the late 1980's. I went to the [scientific] literature to study the basis of the claim, starting at first principles. My studies then led me to believe that the claims were false."
Dr Indur Goklany: "Climate change is unlikely to be the world's most important environmental problem of the 21st century. There is no signal in the mortality data to indicate increases in the overall frequencies or severities of extreme weather events, despite large increases in the population at risk."
Dr Vincent Gray: "The (IPCC) climate change statement is an orchestrated litany of lies."
Dr Kenneth Green: "We can expect the climate crisis industry to grow increasingly shrill, and increasingly hostile toward anyone who questions their authority."
Dr Mike Hulme: "Claims such as '2,500 of the world's leading scientists have reached a consensus that human activities are having a significant influence on the climate' are disingenuous ... The actual number of scientists who backed that claim was "only a few dozen."
Dr Kiminori Itoh: "There are many factors which cause climate change. Considering only greenhouse gases is nonsense and harmful. When people know what the truth is they will feel deceived by science and scientists."
Dr Yuri Izrael: "There is no proven link between human activity and global warming. I think the panic over global warming is totally unjustified. There is no serious threat to the climate."
Dr Steven Japar: "Temperature measurements show that the climate model-predicted mid-troposphere hot zone is non-existent. This is more than sufficient to invalidate global climate models and projections made with them."
Dr Georg Kaser: "This number (of receding glaciers reported by the IPCC) is not just a little bit wrong, but far out of any order of magnitude ... It is so wrong that it is not even worth discussing,"
Dr Aynsley Kellow: "I'm not holding my breath for criticism to be taken on board, which underscores a fault in the whole peer review process for the IPCC: there is no chance of a chapter [of the IPCC report] ever being rejected for publication, no matter how flawed it might be."
Dr Madhav Khandekar: "I have carefully analysed adverse impacts of climate change as projected by the IPCC and have discounted these claims as exaggerated and lacking any supporting evidence."
Dr Hans Labohm: "The alarmist passages in the (IPCC) Summary for Policymakers have been skewed through an elaborate and sophisticated process of spin-doctoring."
Dr. Andrew Lacis: "There is no scientific merit to be found in the Executive Summary. The presentation sounds like something put together by Greenpeace activists and their legal department."
Dr Chris Landsea: "I cannot in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound."
Dr Richard Lindzen: "The IPCC process is driven by politics rather than science. It uses summaries to misrepresent what scientists say and exploits public ignorance."
Dr Harry Lins: "Surface temperature changes over the past century have been episodic and modest and there has been no net global warming for over a decade now. The case for alarm regarding climate change is grossly overstated."
Dr Philip Lloyd: "I am doing a detailed assessment of the IPCC reports and the Summaries for Policy Makers, identifying the way in which the Summaries have distorted the science. I have found examples of a summary saying precisely the opposite of what the scientists said."
Dr Martin Manning: "Some government delegates influencing the IPCC Summary for Policymakers misrepresent or contradict the lead authors."
Dr Stephen McIntyre: "The many references in the popular media to a "consensus of thousands of scientists" are both a great exaggeration and also misleading."
Dr Patrick Michaels: "The rates of warming, on multiple time scales have now invalidated the suite of IPCC climate models. No, the science is not settled."
Dr Nils-Axel Morner: "If you go around the globe, you find no sea level rise anywhere."
Dr Johannes Oerlemans: "The IPCC has become too political. Many scientists have not been able to resist the siren call of fame, research funding and meetings in exotic places that awaits them if they are willing to compromise scientific principles and integrity in support of the man-made global-warming doctrine."
Dr Roger Pielke: "All of my comments were ignored without even a rebuttal. At that point, I concluded that the IPCC Reports were actually intended to be advocacy documents designed to produce particular policy actions, but not as a true and honest assessment of the understanding of the climate system."
Dr Jan Pretel: "It's nonsense to drastically reduce emissions ... predicting about the distant future-100 years can't be predicted due to uncertainties."
Dr Paul Reiter: "As far as the science being 'settled,' I think that is an obscenity. The fact is the science is being distorted by people who are not scientists."
Dr Murray Salby: "I have an involuntary gag reflex whenever someone says the "science is settled. Anyone who thinks the science is settled on this topic is in fantasia."
Dr Tom Segalstad: "The IPCC global warming model is not supported by the scientific data."
Dr Fred Singer: "Isn't it remarkable that the Policymakers Summary of the IPCC report avoids mentioning the satellite data altogether, or even the existence of satellites--probably because the data show a (slight) cooling over the last 18 years, in direct contradiction to the calculations from climate models?"
Dr Hajo Smit: "There is clear cut solar-climate coupling and a very strong natural variability of climate on all historical time scales. Currently I hardly believe anymore that there is any relevant relationship between human CO2 emissions and climate change."
Dr Roy Spencer: "The IPCC is not a scientific organization and was formed to regulate carbon dioxide emissions. Claims of human-cause global warming are only a means to that goal."
Dr Richard Tol: "The IPCC attracted more people with political rather than academic motives. In AR4, green activists held key positions in the IPCC and they succeeded in excluding or neutralising opposite voices."
Dr Tom Tripp: "There is so much of a natural variability in weather it makes it difficult to come to a scientifically valid conclusion that global warming is man made."
Dr Robert Watson: "The (IPCC) mistakes all appear to have gone in the direction of making it seem like climate change is more serious by overstating the impact. That is worrying. The IPCC needs to look at this trend in the errors and ask why it happened."
Dr Gerd-Rainer Weber: "Most of the extremist views about climate change have little or no scientific basis."
Dr David Wojick: "The public is not well served by this constant drumbeat of alarms fed by computer models manipulated by advocates."
Dr Miklos Zagoni: "I am positively convinced that the anthropogenic global warming theory is wrong."
Dr. Eduardo Zorita: "Editors, reviewers and authors of alternative studies, analysis, interpretations, even based on the same data we have at our disposal, have been bullied and subtly blackmailed. By writing these lines... a few of my future studies will not see the light of publication."
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Surfer,

I have also be sceptical about the political link of human activity and climate change. I am certainly unsure how a government tax can realistically help reduce our impact on the environment. The Tax is not fair, as a nation we end up paying more for no specific benefit. This puts up inflation and makes our products more expensive and less saleable abroad.

Climate change has been regular occurrence throughout the life of the earth, various cycles have been identified through fossil and other historic records.

Whilst there may be evidence of an increase in world average temperatures over the last 100 years, no one has yet produced any conclusive or even convincing evidence that the cycle was kick started solely by human activity, which is the contention that the Tax was based on.

I can believe that human activity has contributed, but how much it may have accelerated the process is very difficult to assess, but we have seen over recent years many significant natural events, such as earthquakes, and volcanoes, even conservative (non political)estimates rate the energy and gaseous dissipation in all these events vastly exceeds the entire human outputs by several factors,which gives rise to the probability that human activity has only played a small part in climate change.

Even though there maybe uncertantity about our impact on the environment, I see it only as a positive if we can use less resources in what we do. We do know that fossil fuel reserves are finite, and as it becomes more difficult to obtain the price escalates so becoming less dependant on it, has to be a good thing.

You have produced an impressive list, but it is one sided. To be fair you should provide a similar list of quotes for all the contributors to the IPCC, or at least numbers of pro and con, only then can readers make an intelligent conclusion about the validity of the IPCC's output.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Although I am in broad agreement that the global warming debate as been too bias towards our effect on the planet, I can see positives in curtailing the use of organic fuels.

Our rivers and seas are cleaner, ok you can argue that’s because we are looking after the environment in the whole but CO2/CO emissions are part of this. When was the last time we had a real pea souper? I vaguely remember the ones in the 1960’s but remember some in the 70’s and 80’s even to the point were warning were given i.e. smog levels in London.

Reading an article regarding the sun, I was shocked to discover that the sun as hot and cold cycles and that is proportional and correlates directly to the earths temp. Common sense if you think about it.

But isn’t this offset tax all about money and pampering to the masses in order to maintain control?

I contend that we were the cause but it cannot be argued against that we have contributed and that with effort we are minimising our future effect. But if it is only unilateral then we are only subsidising the likes of America, who keeps refusing to ratify any global agreements – they probably will when it suits them.
 
Aug 28, 2005
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392655/UKs-warmest-spring-records-began-1659-heatwave-starts-Thursday.html
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We have had lots of warm years and lots of ice ages , no doubt the ice age will return , our little Island will not make any differnce at all to carbon emmisions , so why did the ice melt 10000 years ago , and why was it warm in 1659 , all these tossers in power are doing is robbing us blind , and we are to weak to do any thing about it , i have always been a tory voter , but all Cameron has done since he has been in power is increase VAT to 20% , our fuel is the 3rd most expensive in the world and all he seems to do is give away to countries like India which is richer than us , they even have a space program , Pakistan just recieved 650 million of our taxpayers money , we also give more than all the countries put together in child aid , there is no such thing as man made global warming , just politicians taking us for a ride and we just stand a take it
 
Oct 30, 2009
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while the suns cycles have a profound impact on global events to claim the human activity has no impact is just plain silly we can all see the impact on the enviroment on a day to day basis it is all over the news something is going on ???? to lose an area of rain forest the size of wales every year must have a impact. buildings that have stood for a thousand years are crumbling to dust, the decrease in the use of fossil fuels to conserve resorces has to be a good thing worldwide,
dismissing all envromentalists as nutters or tree huggers is very short sighted they may be too enthusiastic at times but there is no doubt the benifits that have been gained due to thier efforts it drives invention and technoligy where is the will to change anything without it, do you honestly believe the the strides in improved car design and fuel effeciency would have gone on without the hike in fuel costs the same goes for house design and vast improvements in energy conservation we are all aware of the benifits of recycling even when it's a bit more hassle to seperate the different types of waste we throw away.
the person I loath in the whole world is Thatcher because of the impact her government policies had on me and my family the news of her demise will be the signal to open the bottle of 40year old bladnoch I have in the cupboard and take a very large stiff drink!! something I have not done in over 30years. HOWEVER even I have to conceed that the actions taken at that time have improved the local enviroment 30 odd years on. The demise in the mines and abundant use of coal have improved the air quality (reference to the peasoupers of old) the demise of all the manufacturing up stream of the local town has turned the open stinking sewer into a clean river that has now become a haven for wild life with salmon now running up stream in the spring. all the old factories have gone to make way for housing and parks for the kids to play in. yes the community spirit has gone but so has all the grime.
making life better costs money lots of it, paid for by the tax payer it's true but as the quote goes " it is a price worth paying"

burying your head in the sand quoting it's all a con doesn't cut the icecap "pun" and the antics of the anti lobby are as idiotic as some of the more pro camp in putting across their views.

I well remember watching a documentory a while back by "professor who ever it was" about the natives of easter island who turned a tropical paradise into a unihabited barren rock all for the sake of erecting statues on the shore. and remember his words " when all but one tree of the forest had gone and most of the statues had been placed, facing starvation and doom the natives stood there with axe in hand contemplating felling the very last tree " what was going though their mind, what was the impulse that drove them on, knowing that it would be the end of everything?? they cut it down anyway and sealed their fate"
"such is human nature"
colin
 
Aug 23, 2006
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Colin
Whilst I agree that we really ought to try and re-cycle and re-use where and as much as we can, which if I remember rightly as I grew up through up through the 50's and 60's we used to do as a matter of course, we are now unfortunately living in a disposable society.
As for efficient engines I agree, but why not drop the road tax as every one with more than two grey cells know does nothing to help the environment.
Why is it you use a big car and you're poluting the enviroment but you can run round forever in a smaller car for as long as you want and you're being responsible, surely it's down to common sense how much you use a car whether large or small you pay for it at the pumps. I sit waiting for my grandchildren watching people sit with their engines running for god knows how long to keep their air-con/climate control working. As I say car tax doesn't stop that.
As for the electric cars great I'm all for alternative fuels but where's the electricity coming from, are you having a wind turbine by every charging point?
What cost are the dual fuel cars to the enviroment, I see that the Toyota Prius came 13th from the bottom for most polluting cars, way down from the best (based on from build to destruction).
It's not expensive to re-use and re-cycle sensibly like we used to years ago, it needn't be expensive to educate people to be more sensible in fuel use, do you really need constant central heating and light?
There's really no excuse for the past and present governments though to levy taxes in the name of being evironmently friendly when they aren't at all. Some of there initiatives have been to say the least a shambles, what about paying people to have wind turbines without ever having checks to see it it's viable. This has been done in the knowledge the the Great British suckers who pay taxes will pay up.
 
Oct 30, 2009
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hi tom,
the last paragraph of my post was to illustrate the fickle nature of the human mind, in your post you ommitted to acknowlege the global implications alltogether and instead consentrated on domestic issues, thats fine if we all lived in a bubble? those that spoilt theirs could be left to stew in it while others could keep theirs nice and fresh however we all live in the same bubble while some are willing to spoil it others try to keep it tidy.
as with all aspects of human nature domestic or otherwise money and greed are ever present and the driving force of inequality.
those with less of it want more, those with plenty of it want to keep most of it, we strive all our lives in persuit of it while not realising we cannot take it with us, what we spoil in the process is spoilt forever and the mess we leave will be for future generations to cope with it is our grand children and great grand children who will pay the final bill in the end.
 
Aug 23, 2006
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Hi Colin
I would love to be able to change the world but I'm afraid if you want a global view then you'll have to admit there's very little chance anybody will cease the expansion and growth of China and India with the massive pollution that involves.
As for the homeview bubble each generation seems to get ever more wasteful, with a disposable mentality firmly in place.
Have a look round you, it can get depressing, you start to get a Victor Meldrew complex.
I'm afraid re-cycling resources and energy saving has got to be a way of life but with the attitudes abroad at the moment plus the seeming earth and solar changes we can't control, in the words of Corporal Frazer 'we're doomed'.
Just don't tax us any more on the pretext.
 
Aug 4, 2004
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We believe in recycling and conservation and avoid polluting which is the way things should be, but to state that the human race is causing global warming is totally insane. The findings of the University of East Anglia were proven to be false and this is what the government tax was based on. It is just an unnecesary tax to fill the government coffers. If it was ring fenced and being used to do something like better public transport and improved road infrastructure then maybe we could accept it.
 
Oct 30, 2009
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hi. world events aside what exactly is it that seems so impalatable about road tax I dont really get it.
paying more for a bigger vehicle seems rather natural if you think about it, you pay more for a bigger house that is dearer to run,
same for the van, tv, and even down to the laptop, so why should a big car be any different??
 
Aug 4, 2004
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Why don't they improve the road infrastructure out of the road tax that they collect which will then lead to less pollution of the air. Why shoudl you be penalsied for driving a bigger vehicle? Anyway the high road tax is due to preventing global warming which as we all know now is a load of codswallop!
 
Aug 28, 2005
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colin Yorkshire
old) the demise of all the manufacturing up stream of the local town has turned the open stinking sewer into a clean river that has now become a haven for wild life with salmon now running up stream in the spring. all the old factories have gone to make way for housing and parks for the kids to play in. yes the community spirit has gone but so has all the grime.
making life better costs money lots of it, paid for by the tax payer it's true but as the quote goes " it is a price worth paying
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the clean rivers are down to the ACA which stands for , Anglers consevavation society , its them that take polluters to court , not the goverment , nor the enviroment agency , and as for the trees on Easter Island , 15000-10000 years ago we didnt have any trees in Britain , but they soon reistablished here from across the unfrozen parts of Europe
 
Oct 30, 2009
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hi all,
surfer one has allways been penalised for driving a largecar it goes with the territory why do you think the mini was a instant hit when it was introduced and went on to be a best seller not because of build quality or luxury, no because it was economical fun to drive and as cheap as chips, the fact that they were death traps and about as strong as a cardboard box did not matter.
while it may be that some consider the upper level of tax unfair those with the lower level are quite happy, but that life isn't it, I think it is unfair that my electricty is the same price as someone living hundred of miles away in the pretty country side when all I can see out of the bedroom window is a power station.
joeby, cleaning the river had absolutely sod all to do with any angling association, it was just the pure fact that all the textile and chemical industries up stream, closed down no one give a monkeys about the fishing untill it gradually started to run clear and purge it's self, of course as soon as it became evident that fish had started to return they were queing up to get hold of a piece of it,
BTW the river is one of the main reasons the power station was sited were it is, apart from it being in the middle of the coal field,
quote "and as for the trees on Easter Island , 15000-10000 years ago we didnt have any trees in Britain , but they soon reistablished here from across the unfrozen parts of Europe"
also you have missed the point completly about easter island??? had there been enviromentalists amongst the tribe when the statues STARTED to be erected it would NOT have ended up a barren piece of rock would it?? since the time after the natives left not one tree has ever re-grown. and yes the trees did grow in Britain after the ice age but there no people here untill they had grown, upto 95% of the land mass was forest and where is most of it now? have a guess ??????.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I am certain the Fossil Fuel Tax is just another way for the Government (of all political persuasions) to generate revenue for the exchequer. Again the burden has been dumped primarily on motorists.

It is naive to believe that taxes on motorists will be spent soley on motoring issues, as the whole basis of the exchequer system is that tax collected regardless of source goes into one big pot (the exchequer) and is then divided up without reference to the income stream.

Whilst the name and stated reason for the tax is highly questionable, even if it were dropped, it is most likely the Govt' would simply introduce another tax, or up a rate elsewhere to cover the loss of income. As in general those who own cars are likely to income based taxpayers we would still end up paying more tax, just by other means.

With regard to climate change,
As I have stated previously, I am not convinced that human activity necessarily has caused climate change, however our polluting activity must contribute towards it. The question is by how much, and again there is no conclusive evidence to put a specific figure to it. That is not say we can ignore it.

Ultimately climate change is one of those recurring natural phenomena that arises. It seems likely that all the previous switches in climate have had a major effect on the flora and fauna of the world. It seems likely that the dinosaurs and many other species may have been wiped out because of it, and there is no reason to suspect other species may not survive future changes - even man.

Man is endowed with a greater capacity to control our destiny, by virtue of our ability to use collective wisdom and reasoning, so we may survive longer than what our natural tenure may have been. But we have to be wise, and that means exploiting the Earth's resources carefully.

We are using fossil fuels far quicker than they are being produced. Consequently if our consumption remains the same or increases, ultimately they will become scarce or even disappear. Our economies are based on supply and demand which means any product that is wanted, but becomes increasing more difficult to get will cost more. That alone will increase government tax income.

There is no single solution to this, except we need to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

The most common form of energy we use is heat. Almost universally every time we use a fuel it is turned into heat, and the heat is then used for other purposes.

We are very careless about our usage of heat, most of it escapes into the atmosphere as waste. In many cases we use a high grade fuel gas to produce a low grade heat and waste the difference. Heat retention and heat recovery are technologies that would save a large proportion of our gas bills.

We do need to look at our fuel usage and it may need changes to our way of lives, but we could relatively easily save 50% or more of our oil usage, with a properly integrated energy plan for the country.

If our 'green taxes' were put to use to investigate and innovate in these areas then the public perception of the levy's might be different.

But hey-ho this would require joined up government, and thats not likely to happen even with the Green Party.
 
Aug 4, 2004
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Perhaps countries with volcanoes etc shoudl be penalised for polluting the air. I wonder how many years it would take for the whole of mankind to generate the same amount of pollution that the Icelandic volcano pushed into the air in one week?
 
Aug 11, 2010
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surfer. Your original post, i seem to remember reading something similar ..................about 5 years ago. is it doing the rounds again?
I believe about 4 months after that article did its original rounds it was found to be hog wash,it had been taken out of context and exaggerated immensely.
Anyway it was about the time when the phrase "global warming"was being phased out as hog wash,and "climate change" reared its ugly head.Although it seems to have gone over the heads of the general public that these two things are entirely different subjects,although ok they are linked. Global warming is indeed a phase we have been through many a time in the earths history, climate change is climate change,could be warmer, cooler, wetter, dryer, windier. could be all of them.
Mother nature knows all too well about climate changed volcanoes above and below the sea, effecting our environment as do many many other NATURAL occurring events.I like to believe mother nature within reason knows how to handle them, but we humans are the unknown element,after all we dont just hunt eat and light a small camp fire at night anymore and there seems to be a 100,000 moore times the amount of us too. So its that effect that should worry us not volcanoes sun spots ect ect.
Its like a glass,almost full of liquid to the rim,that your volcanoes and any natural occurring COs, then there is us humans our what you call dribble ends up over filling the glass and water spills everywhere. You cannot then blame natural occurring things as mother nature had them under control...just,its our input,or rather output that takes us over the edge.Whether you believe in global or climate change doesn't matter,but merely being wasteful, and unconcerned and blaming outside forces that we cannot control is worrying.

because if they the experts are wrong, no matter no harm done, but if you and others who feels its merely a way to raise taxes, are wrong and dont try to at least conserve better,then Ok we wont be here to see the damage we have coursed but maybe our sons and daughters or grandchildren will......
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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Blimey, look who the cat's dragged in! We haven't heard from you for ages Gio.
smiley-laughing.gif
 
Aug 28, 2005
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http://natgeotv.com/uk/birth-of-britain-with-tony-robinson/videos
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any body who is interested in climate change or how our land evolved should click on the link above , and see the programme by Tony Robinsons , The Birth of Britain , and you hear and see how Britain has had 15 bouts of ice age and global warming over the last 2000000 years , and the weight of ice a mile thick over Glasgow actually compressed the land , and even now Glasgow is still rising by 2mm per year now the ice has gone , you also see times when the earth was a lot warmer than it is now , they have also unearthed from around London Monkey bones , Rhino , Hippo and the remains of Lions far larger than the species we have now , another one worth looking at but not as good as the above , is a time team special called drowning Britain , it will tell you about the times when we were joined to Europe and the Thames was a tributary of the Rhine , and you will also see Dutch fisherman dredging Hippo and Rhino bones from the north sea which was once dry land
 

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