bad advice ?

[Jim_374361976]

Had an interesting chat with a local dealer over the weekend .Whilst browsing the caravans the salesman approached us and got talking about kerb weights etc.I told him what ours was ( 1493kg ) and mentioned the 85% rule and as a result we are looking at around 1270 kg MTPLM.

what he said next quite surprised me and the wife , he suggested that we disregard the 85% and should look for a van with the MTPLM up to our kerb weight and as there were only two of us we could even go higher as we wouldn't have much on the way of personal effects., eg we could use the miro as a guide and add a little for personal effects.

This was a large reputable dealer , and have to say after a couple of weeks of research into tow weights etc this shocked us a little. We still plan to use the 85% rule by the way.

Jim

 

[Lutz]

From your description, the dealer didn't even mention anything about the towload limit specified by the car manufacturer. And then to say that one can exceed the kerbweight without even asking for details about when you or whoever is going to drive the car passed the driving test is not bad advice, that is downright irresponsible.

Whether you choose to ignore the 85% recommendation is up to and the dealer should have said so without telling you to simply disregard it, but it is always based on kerbweight of the car versus MTPLM of the caravan.

 

[Gumbo]

Very difficult to comment when you have not been a part of the conversation.

It is not up to the dealer to make sure that you understand the Law ( I don't think ?) we are all different in how we approach towing rules etc.

Is the 85% guideline not out of date with say the addition of an Al-Ko ATC and other safety devices ??

 

[Lutz]

The dealer should definitely not mislead you into buying something that would be illegal for you to use.

As for the 85% recommendation, I wouldn't say it is out of date, after all, not all cars have ESP and not all caravans the AlKo ATC or equivalent, but it needs to be taken at face value and not followed religiously. Most data used to calculate the weight ratio is not that accurate anyway and a couple of percent over the 85 is not going to be noticed.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

See my reply to you here:

http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=28920&pid=287581&st=0&#entry287581

 

[WatsonJohnG]

See my reply to you here:

]http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=28920&pid=287581&st=0&#entry287581

http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=28920&pid=287581&st=0&#entry287581[/quote
With credit to Lutz for some thoughts!

 

[Gumbo]

Here is John's reply save you logging out and then back in again!!

The 85% rule is a guide

He is quite right in saying that you may not be near to the max weight with belongings for 2 people and the only way you can know if the van stated unladen weight and the van laden weight with your gear approach your target figure is to go to the local weighbridge

The car kerbweight figures also vary wildly from one source or another(you quote a figure ending in 3 but that is very precise ) and Nissan for instance give a range of kerbweights for the X Trail and people have had to go to a weighbridge to discover the real one

X Trail Columbia is stated as 1525kg to 1650kg for the 2.2 diesel for example

The 85% guide is worse case scenario in that it compares the minimum stated car kerbweight with the maximum allowed by the manufacturer on the van plate and many people near the limit put things isuch as awnings nto the car instead of the van

What he meant was that you may be nowhere near the theoretical max load

Its possible for a fee to get caravans uprated and a maker will supply uprated plates etc if people wish to carry more than the stated weight and the only change very often is in the paperwork

This is because max weight as stated by the maker is often understated or people would be put off the van because relying on the 85% rule they would think that the van was too heavy

If the real max available load weight axle wise was say 10 cwt and you only put in 3 cwt then you could refuse the van because you would think it too heavy so often makers just add say 5cwt loading weight and that makes the van saleable to more people

What matters legally is that you don't exceed the car manufacturers stated max tow weight for the specific vehicle and also the manufacturers stated nose weight

Nissan For instance giva max tow weight for the X Trail of 2000kg for the 150bhp engine and 2200 for the 175bhp engine but the automatic with 150bhp is given as 1350kg

The nose weight is 100kg for the 2 manual cars but 75 kg for the auto

You would not tow at these weights as they are way above the car kerbweight but they illustrate the differences in similar vehicles

Some cars also have a lot lower manufactureres stated max weight than the 85% would give

Hope that isn't too confusing but the point really is that its not legally the 85% rule that you need to be aware of but the car manufacturers stated limits

The 85% rule(gude) is a useful starting point but its not set in stone and could in some cases be over the car manufacturers own limit with regard to transmission,braking etc

Happy hunting