Bailey Olympus Nose Weight !!

[John_374584819]

I have recently purchased a Bailey Olumpus 534 and like many others (it seems) I have great difficulty achieving the correct noseweight for my car (75Kg). On taking delivery from the dealer I was told that caravans ex-works will be balanced correctly.

Having now loaded the caravan with the usual cutlery, crockery (melamine) and gas bottles etc I have found that with all heavier items in the shower/washroom at the rear and only the gas bottles forward of the axle my noseweight is 90Kg!! The battery on the 534 is already fitted behind the axle.

I bought the Bailey because I trusted their ability to provide a caravan design that would be easy to use, including loading and towing. They have been manufacturing caravans for many years and must surely by now be able to provide owners with a van that will be easy and safe to use on the road with gas bottles in-situ! Do they not test their vans (loaded) before production? I agree that it is up to the owner to load and balance a van correctly and safely, but surely the manufacturers MUST provide a design that makes this achievable.

 

[Woody3]

It is not the caravan that matters but the car hitch limit. We have an Octavia Mk1 TDi 130 which his a ball max of 60Kg; my last Co car was an Astra estate and that had a label on the back window indicating 75Kg max.

It is up to you to move you contents around to get the balance. If it is only a few kilos putting some water in the Aquaroll and positioning that will always help.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,

This has been debated at some length on the forum, but as the forums 'search' facility is steam powered, you may have missed the important points.

A caravan manufacture can only quote an ex-works nose weight, as they have no control of what or how customers will do with the caravan in regards of loading it, and what car will be used to tow it.

Some manufactures do not even quote ex-works nose weights, so it is always the driver's responsibility to ensure the nose weight is trimmed correctly. There is no way to avoid that responsibility; in the same way it is necessary to check tyre pressures etc.

Some caravan manufactures do tend to produce nose heavy caravans and that does not help, but I have helped others to redress the problem by careful loading and distribution of the caravanners belongings - I have yet to find a caravan that cannot be trimmed to bring the nose load into the correct range.

Sometimes it has been necessary to only take one gas bottle and remove all the excess clobber that many people store in the gas bottle locker e.g. wheel chocks, pads for the corner steadies, winding handles, EHU cables and mallets, etc. Some times it has been necessary to add some water to a container and stow it at the rear of the caravan to counter balance the nose.

We know that adding extra mass to the extreme ends of a caravan is frowned on, but usually it is only few Kg, and if that is enough to make a caravan become unstable, then the outfit would have already been too close to the limit even without the extra mass.

As a general strategy try to remove weight from the front first, secondly move heavy items further back inside the caravan and then only add weight to the rear as a last resort.

As for caravan manufactures producing caravans with inherently heavy noses, all that we can do is to continually report the problems back to them, the hope that will listen and make a conscious effort to produce better balanced caravans.

 

[Ancientcaravanner]

Hello John,

This has been debated at some length on the forum, but as the forums 'search' facility is steam powered, you may have missed the important points.

A caravan manufacture can only quote an ex-works nose weight, as they have no control of what or how customers will do with the caravan in regards of loading it, and what car will be used to tow it.

Some manufactures do not even quote ex-works nose weights, so it is always the driver's responsibility to ensure the nose weight is trimmed correctly. There is no way to avoid that responsibility; in the same way it is necessary to check tyre pressures etc.

Some caravan manufactures do tend to produce nose heavy caravans and that does not help, but I have helped others to redress the problem by careful loading and distribution of the caravanners belongings - I have yet to find a caravan that cannot be trimmed to bring the nose load into the correct range.

Sometimes it has been necessary to only take one gas bottle and remove all the excess clobber that many people store in the gas bottle locker e.g. wheel chocks, pads for the corner steadies, winding handles, EHU cables and mallets, etc. Some times it has been necessary to add some water to a container and stow it at the rear of the caravan to counter balance the nose.

We know that adding extra mass to the extreme ends of a caravan is frowned on, but usually it is only few Kg, and if that is enough to make a caravan become unstable, then the outfit would have already been too close to the limit even without the extra mass.

As a general strategy try to remove weight from the front first, secondly move heavy items further back inside the caravan and then only add weight to the rear as a last resort.

As for caravan manufactures producing caravans with inherently heavy noses, all that we can do is to continually report the problems back to them, the hope that will listen and make a conscious effort to produce better balanced caravans.

I am sorry Prof I disagree. Since the manufacturer sets the position and number of gas bottles, the postion of the battery box and the spare wheel then it is not unreasonable to expect them to say, for example, the nose weight is 85Kg with two 6Kg calor bottles, an 85Ah battery and the spare wheel in place. If you then but larger gas bottles etc. in then you can calculate the effect.

After all their essentail habitation payload includes these items so they must make assumptions on gas bottle size etc.

 

[Royston]

Prof , Have you ever owned a bailey caravan, I am on my third, every one that I have owned, i have always managed to comply with my towball max of 75Kg.Without having to place heavy objects behind the rear wheel .

Baileys have always fitted a very lightweight front panel to there vans, with their new range the front panel is manufactured as part of the roof assembly untill final assy when the automatic robot cutting machine, cuts part of the underside of the assy to enable the part to be formed into the front panel.

This could be the reason for baileys now issuing heavier nose weight ex works.

On present evidence it looks like my present Baileys will have to last a long time, as what with the noseweights being Heavier and coupled with the increased ex works Miro (kg)weights, gives little room to load the van before you are beyond the max MTPLM (kg)caravan towing capabilities.

Cannot afford a new car and van.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Ancient caravanner

You are fully entitled to disagree if you wish, but what would the point be of a manufacturer stating a nose load with a totally incomplete and unrealistic loading scenario?

6Kg bottles have different weights depending on thej design of the bottle and normal manufacturing tolerances. The weight of a battery varies from one make to another. And not every one uses a spare wheel. In addition none of that takes into account the other items that each individual caravanner adds to the outfit. So any such predictive statement of nose weight will be inaccurate and thus of no benefit. It could be construed as misleading.

The uncertainty of the nose load is down to a vast number of variables. Even the sleeping bag that weighs 2Kg will have an effect on the nose load, so I seriously doubt that anyone would go to the trouble on a regular basis of calculating the effect of using different sized bottles, when actually weighing it is so much quicker, simpler and more accurate.

Don't forget that a full gas bottle weighs more than an empty one, the wooden and soft furnishing components in a caravan are not consistent in their dry weight, yet alone when they are subject to different levels of humidity, so yet again there are variables with unknown values, which make it impossible for a caravan manufacturer to stipulate or guarantee any "working nose load" other than the ex-works value.

Even the same caravan will produce a different nose load if the height of coupling changes, so there is no practical guaranteed way of predicting the working nose load of a caravan.

Ask yourself this:

If a manufacture or a dealer were to offer a working nose load figure, and knowing what we do about how they are affected by loading the caravan, would you believe the manufactures figure? If not why bother producing one.

Assuming the manufacture actually quoted working nose load and inevitably you found that your caravan was different, do you think you could have a legitimate claim for misinformation, or trades descriptions? So why would a manufacture make themselves vulnerable to such actions, when the criteria are so variable.

The only figures a manufacture can give are;-

the ex-works nose load.

The maximum load limit for the chassis and hitch.

The range of acceptable nose loads based on the EU regulations and the weight range of the trailer.

So it is up to the driver under all circumstances to check the nose load is compliant with tow car and the legal limits before towing on the public highway.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof , Have you ever owned a bailey caravan, I am on my third, every one that I have owned, i have always managed to comply with my towball max of 75Kg.Without having to place heavy objects behind the rear wheel .

Baileys have always fitted a very lightweight front panel to there vans, with their new range the front panel is manufactured as part of the roof assembly untill final assy when the automatic robot cutting machine, cuts part of the underside of the assy to enable the part to be formed into the front panel.

This could be the reason for baileys now issuing heavier nose weight ex works.

On present evidence it looks like my present Baileys will have to last a long time, as what with the noseweights being Heavier and coupled with the increased ex works Miro (kg)weights, gives little room to load the van before you are beyond the max MTPLM (kg)caravan towing capabilities.

Cannot afford a new car and van.

Hello Royston,

There is no relevance to what caravan I own, The principal applies to all makes and models. However I have assisted clients with Bailey's, and clients with other makes.

 

[TimM]

Reading these posts is enough to to stop me considering buying this caravan. Of course its reasonable to expect to be able to put "normal" items in the front locker. In our current Abbey I have two 5Kg gaslight cylinders, the wastemaster, bucket of loo chemicals etc, water hose, waste pipes and aquaroll handle. I can easily achieve 75Kg nose weight. I would not like to have to put heavy items at the back of my caravan to lower noseweight, partly because of the inconvenience and partly because it makes the outfit less stable as demonstrated ably by the model car caravan outfit on a rolling road that Bailey themselves had on their show stands a couple of years ago. Bailey now seem to be ignoring the research they did. Mind you I doubt there is any way of getting a wastemaster, broom, windbreak or sun umbrella in the front of an Olympus anyway. Does make you wonder if some of the manufacturers do ever use a caravan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just a thought;

There is actually a slightly perverse side all of this nose weight, The fact that the nose is already quite heavily loaded means it should be a relatively stable caravan, and that means there is probably a greater margin for adding mass at the rear without rendering the outfit un-drivable.

 

[Ancientcaravanner]

Prof

I understand what you are saying and your point. I guess it comes down to what is ex works weight. I agree it should be the nose weight of the van as delivered to the dealer. If this is the case it should be made clear to potential buyers that the nose weight is with no battery and no gas bottles.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof

I understand what you are saying and your point. I guess it comes down to what is ex works weight. I agree it should be the nose weight of the van as delivered to the dealer. If this is the case it should be made clear to potential buyers that the nose weight is with no battery and no gas bottles.

Hi

Ex-works means exactly that - as it leaves the factory.

 

[Ancientcaravanner]

Just one more thought - while Prof is correct that it is impossible to give a totally accurate nose weight due to variation in gas bottle and battery weights the error caused by these differences is much smaller than not inluding them at all. It would at least give a realistic value for the nose weight of a van in normal basic configuration.

 

[BillD.]

An important point to remember is that when you measure nose weight you are measuring a static load, a weight placed at the rear will help to counterbalance this static load. However where the rear load becomes a problem is its dynamic properties when on the move, ie the pendulum effect that can make the van unstable and for this reason it is not a good idea to reduce nose weight by adding weight right at the rear.

Bill D.