Bailey problems

[Daftwullie]

I've just bought a 2010 bailey Olympus 534 and was initially thrilled with it. I've just started to get it ready for Easter week and I keep finding problems with it, many if which I've since seen raised on similar forums.
Why do half the locks on the storage cupboards not work? Half of them have lock barrels that fall out or stay stuck to the key!! The power on light for the room heater & water heater don't work even after changing the units. The water connections (push fit) to the pump & heater leak like a sieve (no wonder the unit is mounted on a drip tray! Not used the van yet and beginning to regret buying it already. All this after a "thorough & comprehensive" pre-collection service.
Fingers crossed the wheels don't fall off

[/Moderator Note: Name of Dealer removed in accordance with Forum Etiquette Rule 4 ]

 

[Damian]

There is only one avenue of redress, and that is with the people from whom you bought the van.
I assume that you inspected the van prior to purchase and that you were shown everything working before you took it away from the dealer.
If the above is not correct,,,why not?

 

[Daftwullie]

Yeah I suppose I could have gotten them to hook it up with mains, gas and water to go through everything. Then gone around the van checking the locks worked properly be use I knew that was going to an issue.
Sorry if that's a bit sarkie but it's an almost new van sold with full service etc from a huge dealership, in hindsight I'd have tapped every nut & bolt.
Seems to me bailey need to look at quality control and I need to take it up with the Dealer
....expected more from a late van and reputable names within the industry.

[/Moderator Note: Dealer name removed. Please read the Forum Etiquette and abide by the rules. Naming and Shaming of Dealers is NOT permitted

 

[brian_c]

Hello I'm sorry to hear of your problems with the van.
I know it's a inconvenience but surely the company who sold you the van will have given you some sort of warranty.
Like Damian says I think you should approach them with the problems and return it for the items to be sorted.
Good luck with it anyway I'm sure you will enjoy the van when you get over these issues.
Regards Brian

 

[Damian]

The trouble is, it is not an "almost new" van. It is a 4 year old van and with no knowledge of how it has been used or abused by the previous owner.
It is always sensible to get the seller, Dealer or Private to show you all the items working before parting with any cash.
Yes it takes time, yes it is somewhat inconvenient, BUT, it saves finding problems after your money has gone !

 

[ProfJohnL]

It doesn't matter whether its new, nearly new of 4 years old, caravans have a poor reputation for reliability and it as is so often stated here on this website, the customer has to make sure the product is fit for purpose at the point of sale. The time to ask questions is before you agree to buy it.

If the caravan is not as described by the dealer or faults become apparent that must have been present at the point of sale, then the purchaser has the power of SoGA on their side to get the retailer to remedy the situation - even on second hand goods. However, claims have to be fair and reasonable. If more than six months has passed since the purchase, the onus is on the buyer to prove the faults must have been present at the point of sale - which on second hand goods can be quite tricky and expensive.

As others have said it worth contacting the dealer to see what they may be prepared to do without going down any adversarial route. If that fails you may need to consider SoGA, but I strongly suggest you seek local professional legal advice before pursuing the matter.

 

[xtrailman]

First thing you need to do after checking it's actually has a full service history is to pay for a transfer of ownership, so any warranty work can be carried out.

The water leaks are common, replacing the plumbing is the best solution using better quality quick fit couplings.

I certainly would have checked the caravan worked in all areas before passing any money over, my present caravan was stood at the dealers 3 weeks being repaired before I was happy with it, even so more and more problems were flagged up during the first two years.

I've recently had my 3rd damp repair after 3 years, a common fault is water ingress in the front lockers, I suggest you lift the trays today and do a check, the water stains are easy to see.

 

[Jason-mids-uk]

I have a Bailey Unicorn 3 Cabrera 2017 ans it read 49% damp in the near side rear corner in the bedroom at the 1st service . I spoke with Bailey direct at the Caravan & Motorhome show in Oct, There senior aftersales/ warranty manager was there though while I spoke to one of his team after finishing with another customer he stood at the end of the counter listening to our conversation but never once came and introduced himself. I was told to put everything in an email including previous faults which also had repaired already and all I got back was an email saying they have approved this repair and that was it. Even though I have to wait 4 months for this repair at an authorised dealer nothing in the way of showing they were really sorry given that this was a 20k + investment into many holidays. I am an engineer by trade and the vans are not engineered to last and are substandard for the amount of money people are paying for them. There customer service is to any amount none existent and somewhat ignorant if I am honest, though I realised this by how ignorant and reluctant the senior manager was to move himself 5 feet to see what the issue was with our van though he listened to every word said. MY ADVICE IS TO STEER WELL CLEAR OF BAILEY CARAVANS. If you bought a car for 20K new or old with water ingress issues they would sort it immediately and treat you far better.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jason

I see this is your first post on the forum, so welcome, but may I remind you to read the forum etiquette

https://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/new-members-say-hello/49375-forum-etiquette-please-read
I need to advise you that as virtually all new caravans are purchased from dealers, your legal contract is with the dealer and not the manufacturer. Consequently caravan manufacturers are not obliged assist direct. Morally they should of course.

 

[Jason-mids-uk]

I had already spoken with the dealer regarding this issue prior to speaking to the manufacturer, it was the dealer who suggested I speak to Bailey direct and they even gave me free complimentary tickets to the show at the NEC.

 

[Dustydog]

I had already spoken with the dealer regarding this issue prior to speaking to the manufacturer, it was the dealer who suggested I speak to Bailey direct and they even gave me free complimentary tickets to the show at the NEC.

Very crafty!
As the Prof said , under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as your contract for purchase is with the dealer , it is they who are liable. The water ingress guarantee from Bailey is only secondary to your rights and course of action you have against the Dealer with prescribed time limits.

 

[otherclive]

If you haven’t already done so you should read the Goverment Webb Pages, and Citizens Advice on how the Consumer Rights Act 2015 works. You will also find proforma letters too. But as has been said above drop your discussion with Bailey and firstly talk to the Dealership and let them know that you are aware of your rights and would like them to take the necessary action. If you cannot obtain agreement then tell them you will be submitting your complaint in writing ( by recorded delivery). Just follow the process detailed in the CR A 2015. Be patient and polite, keep copious notes etc and you will eventually succeed if your case is as good as you say it is.

 

[Simple_Life]

How old is this thread???

Anyway, when you buy from a dealer you are not buying as seen, unless told.

So provided you report the faults immediately to the dealer, the law is on your side as previously stated.

 

[otherclive]

How old is this thread???

Anyway, when you buy from a dealer you are not buying as seen, unless told.

So provided you report the faults immediately to the dealer, the law is on your side as previously stated.

Does it really matter how old the start of the thread is as someone else has contributed his more recent problems.

 

[ProfJohnL]

How old is this thread???

Anyway, when you buy from a dealer you are not buying as seen, unless told.

So provided you report the faults immediately to the dealer, the law is on your side as previously stated.

The age of the thread is immaterial when a new poster asks a question on the same or related subject.

In all purchases new or second hand it is the buyers responsibility to be aware, and to ascertain the suitability of the goods prior to sale. However where goods are ordered based on samples, brochure or verbal description, the right of the buyer to expect goods in perfect condition are enhanced becasue the actual item cannot be inspected prior to agreeing the contract.

If a fault is detected it should be reported without delay to the seller (If a finance package was used to purchase the finance house is jointly liable. (Section 75 Consumer Credit Act)

Your statutory retail rights against the seller cannot be suppressed by any other third party. Manufacturers Guarantees can never usurp your rights under the CRA.

 

[Raywood]

Not sure if you are being fobbed off by the dealer, he should be doing all the communication with Bailey. I would not rule out a Bailey because yours leaked, all makes have a few leaky models, so it is just pot luck. What counts now is how the problem is handled.
When our Lunar leaked we just showed it to the dealer, who took damp readings and sent off all the documentation needed with their report and got the bits (reasonably by caravan standards) promptly and fitted in the work to suit us. They managed to turn a serious, for us problem, into a straightforward procedure and later this year sold us another caravan, as we were happy as we could be in the circumstances.

 

[Buckman]

I had already spoken with the dealer regarding this issue prior to speaking to the manufacturer, it was the dealer who suggested I speak to Bailey direct and they even gave me free complimentary tickets to the show at the NEC.

Very crafty!
As the Prof said , under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as your contract for purchase is with the dealer , it is they who are liable. The water ingress guarantee from Bailey is only secondary to your rights and course of action you have against the Dealer with prescribed time limits.

I agree as it seems obvious the dealer is ducking their responsibilities under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. BTW if damp it may be an inherent fault due to poor manufacture as it would have been there from day one considering that it is 46%.
All manufacturers seem to eb the same aqs once it leaves their front door they no longer have any interest in the unit or the customer to whom it is sold. That is why they love the CRA 2015 as it shifts responsibility from them to the dealer.

 

[Craigyoung]

.....MY ADVICE IS TO STEER WELL CLEAR OF BAILEY CARAVANS. If you bought a car for 20K new or old with water ingress issues they would sort it immediately and treat you far better.....

That's a bit harsh isn't it " stay clear " of them :huh: !! Our first starter caravan was a Bailey's , wasn't quite 20K but just short of 15 , yes it had a few problems which were rectified as soon as recognised by the dealer with no problems at all . All have their own problems as we have a different one now which has also had problems but have been rectified by the dealer with no problems .

 

[ProfJohnL]

... Our first starter caravan was a Bailey's , wasn't quite 20K but just short of 15 , yes it had a few problems which were rectified as soon as recognised by the dealer with no problems at all . All have their own problems as we have a different one now which has also had problems but have been rectified by the dealer with no problems .

Hello Craig,
I am pleased or dealer managed to placate you. If they had not put right what should have been right in the first place, would you still hold the same point of view?

The point is you are spending money for brand new goods, which should be perfect. The amount you spend makes no difference, A caravan is not a vastly complex product (despite the protestations of the manufacturers) and it does not require rocket class engineering to assemble them, so if faults continue to arise, which they do, then the manufacturers aren't trying hard enough to make sure the job is done correctly.

Dealers are not the innocent parties either, Firstly they should reject faulty products back to the caravan manufacturer. But secondly they charge the final customer for a PDI, That should find the faults and rectify them before the customer receives the goods. Faulty goods simply should not reach the customer, and that is the job of the dealer on both counts.

Not all customers have the desire or ability to apply corrective actions when a fault arise, and the law takes the same view through the requirements of the CRA.

The OP is right to indignant about the problems he has with his caravan, but legally he should be directing his plight to his seller, but morally the caravan manufacturers should be taking a far more proactive role in both reducing manufacturing mistakes, and supporting customers through the dealerships when things might go wrong, rather than the blank don't care attitude we see all to often.

 

[Lappy]

I appreciate the fact that the dealer cannot be named, but are they a 'Reputable Dealership' or just someone who sells second hand caravans? If the latter, then this would be the main cause of the drawn out saga of having repairs rectified.
Regards,

 

[Craigyoung]

Prof ,
the thing is with ours it was fine when we got it, it was after it had been running about and used that the bathroom played up and had to be replaced under warranty no bother , even when the charger fried in France replaced no bother with me money back for what I spent to get it sorted out over there and a % off my service too .

 

[Buckman]

Dealers are not the innocent parties either, Firstly they should reject faulty products back to the caravan manufacturer. But secondly they charge the final customer for a PDI, That should find the faults and rectify them before the customer receives the goods. Faulty goods simply should not reach the customer, and that is the job of the dealer on both counts.

I think the above paragraph sums it up nicely why we have caravans with some many faults as it appears most dealers pocket the PDI charge and let the customer find the faults.
Maybe the consumer should bill the dealership for the time spent finding issues and for cost of fuel, compensation for lost holidays etc. As for waiting 6 weeks or more for a spare part to arrive is unacceptable as it is not reasonable. After all would you like to be without a car for 6 weeks? I am fairly sure that the CRA 2015 does allow for you to claim some costs?
A thought has just occurred to me. The charge for the PDI is a separate charge over and above the cost of the caravan therefore it should be treated as a separate entity and under CRA 2015 you have the same rights to accept or reject the PDI service while still keeping the caravan. I am sure that a good solicitor may be successful with a claim for the PDI to be refunded in the event it was not done properly. Food for thought?

 

[otherclive]

Dealers are not the innocent parties either, Firstly they should reject faulty products back to the caravan manufacturer. But secondly they charge the final customer for a PDI, That should find the faults and rectify them before the customer receives the goods. Faulty goods simply should not reach the customer, and that is the job of the dealer on both counts.

I think the above paragraph sums it up nicely why we have caravans with some many faults as it appears most dealers pocket the PDI charge and let the customer find the faults.
Maybe the consumer should bill the dealership for the time spent finding issues and for cost of fuel, compensation for lost holidays etc. As for waiting 6 weeks or more for a spare part to arrive is unacceptable as it is not reasonable. After all would you like to be without a car for 6 weeks? I am fairly sure that the CRA 2015 does allow for you to claim some costs?
A thought has just occurred to me. The charge for the PDI is a separate charge over and above the cost of the caravan therefore it should be treated as a separate entity and under CRA 2015 you have the same rights to accept or reject the PDI service while still keeping the caravan. I am sure that a good solicitor may be successful with a claim for the PDI to be refunded in the event it was not done properly. Food for thought?

I have had two new vans (inc Bailey) from different dealers and whilst the vans did develop faults some of which I sorted out as they were mostly minor. I did received excellent service when damp and some other more serious faults appeared. My present van was pre owned yet my local Swift main dealer has also been excellent in sorting outa warranty damp and replacing the rear panel, and in installing a new axle. But the dealer I use tend to be long established smaller outlets, not the pile em high type. My friend recently bought Swift Sprite dealer special from a Somerset outlet, but after his initial experience it is being cared for now by the same relatively small Swift dealer that I use.
So they are not all giving poor service, but it would be so nice if UK makers declared 2019-20 a "Year of Quality" rather than new apps and glitz. But that's not likely to happen as it would define previous years as poor quality.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...Maybe the consumer should bill the dealership for the time spent finding issues and for cost of fuel, compensation for lost holidays etc. As for waiting 6 weeks or more for a spare part to arrive is unacceptable as it is not reasonable. After all would you like to be without a car for 6 weeks? I am fairly sure that the CRA 2015 does allow for you to claim some costs?
A thought has just occurred to me. The charge for the PDI is a separate charge over and above the cost of the caravan therefore it should be treated as a separate entity and under CRA 2015 you have the same rights to accept or reject the PDI service while still keeping the caravan. I am sure that a good solicitor may be successful with a claim for the PDI to be refunded in the event it was not done properly. Food for thought?

The CRA sets out the case that a consumer with a faulty product should be no worse off than one with a product with no faults. That means any cost the consumer incurs as a direct result of the fault (A tangible cost) can be recovered from the seller of the faulty goods. BUT that is not a free pass to print money, the costs incurred must be reasonable and fully justifiable.

As for waiting for parts, If the model is current then there should be no excuse, but if the model has been superseded, and especially bespoke high value parts like moulded body panels, it is reasonable for the manufacture not to keep such parts in stock but they should make sure the means to manufacture to meet the warranty and after sales repairs markets should be maintained for a reasonable time. Being realistic, a large body moulding would take time to produce, it would need to be given time to set up the mould, and have the correct moulding compounds to be prepared, all of which can take time if it has to be inserted into a production run in their facility.

What is a reasonable waiting time will depend on the items involved. But six weeks is I think unreasonable for any product within the 6 years period for the CRA.

If a PDI is identified in the sales document it is a contracted service. A product that demonstrates any fault that should have been detected and corrected during a PDI, then it is presence on the product when in the customers hands strongly points to a breach of contract. The big problem is what defines the work carried out during a PDI. It would be a challenging case to pursue if no specification was given for the PDI. Its likely a court would take the view of what a reasonable person would expect a PDI to involve.

By their very nature a fault that only become evident after a little use is very unlikely to be detected during a PDI.

 

[Buckman]

...Maybe the consumer should bill the dealership for the time spent finding issues and for cost of fuel, compensation for lost holidays etc. As for waiting 6 weeks or more for a spare part to arrive is unacceptable as it is not reasonable. After all would you like to be without a car for 6 weeks? I am fairly sure that the CRA 2015 does allow for you to claim some costs?
A thought has just occurred to me. The charge for the PDI is a separate charge over and above the cost of the caravan therefore it should be treated as a separate entity and under CRA 2015 you have the same rights to accept or reject the PDI service while still keeping the caravan. I am sure that a good solicitor may be successful with a claim for the PDI to be refunded in the event it was not done properly. Food for thought?

The CRA sets out the case that a consumer with a faulty product should be no worse off than one with a product with no faults. That means any cost the consumer incurs as a direct result of the fault (A tangible cost) can be recovered from the seller of the faulty goods. BUT that is not a free pass to print money, the costs incurred must be reasonable and fully justifiable.

As for waiting for parts, If the model is current then there should be no excuse, but if the model has been superseded, and especially bespoke high value parts like moulded body panels, it is reasonable for the manufacture not to keep such parts in stock but they should make sure the means to manufacture to meet the warranty and after sales repairs markets should be maintained for a reasonable time. Being realistic, a large body moulding would take time to produce, it would need to be given time to set up the mould, and have the correct moulding compounds to be prepared, all of which can take time if it has to be inserted into a production run in their facility.

What is a reasonable waiting time will depend on the items involved. But six weeks is I think unreasonable for any product within the 6 years period for the CRA.

If a PDI is identified in the sales document it is a contracted service. A product that demonstrates any fault that should have been detected and corrected during a PDI, then it is presence on the product when in the customers hands strongly points to a breach of contract. The big problem is what defines the work carried out during a PDI. It would be a challenging case to pursue if no specification was given for the PDI. Its likely a court would take the view of what a reasonable person would expect a PDI to involve.

By their very nature a fault that only become evident after a little use is very unlikely to be detected during a PDI.

There are numerous faults that only manifest themselves a few months after a PDI and these faults should have been picked up on a PDI. This may happen when a customer changes to a different brand or from an older caravan to a newer one i.e. the newer one has ALDE heating and the pump setting is incorrect. The heating is not used for a few months as it is summer and there are air locks in the system etc etc. Agree it will be harder to pursue after the first 30 days to get some sort of partial refund on the cost of the PDI. However how would you go about rejecting the PDI in the first 30 days? Maybe a few claims for the return of the PDI paid woudl make dealers sit up and take notice? We can only dream!