hi i own a bailey limousine 2009 model had it serviced by a bailey reg mobile fitter i have been told the floor needs replaced and should go back to the factory bailey have refused telling me to find a dealer to take it in and fix it cant find a dealer to accept the job as the dealership that was suposed to have done the work has gone bust any ideas where i go from here this has been an ongoing dampness problem since i bought the caravan
bailey warranty
- Thread starter geo-hall
- Start date
Have you gone back to Bailey explaining your situation and asked them to put you in touch with a dealer that would carryout the repairs.
Seems strange that the dealers you have contacted are unwilling to do the job.
Seems strange that the dealers you have contacted are unwilling to do the job.
Damian
Moderator
It does not surprise me that other dealers will not take on the work.
First of all, they did not sell the van to the purchaser. Therefore they do not have a contract as they would have had they sold the van.
Secondly, it appears that servicing has been carried out by a mobile engineer.
Nothing wrong with that except the dealer has not had the servicing work to do but is being asked to "step in" just for a warranty job
Thirdly, the payment rates for warranty work are not really in tune with the normal rates for jobs, they are generally quite a lot less.
Lastly, dealers will prioritise their regular customers.
First of all, they did not sell the van to the purchaser. Therefore they do not have a contract as they would have had they sold the van.
Secondly, it appears that servicing has been carried out by a mobile engineer.
Nothing wrong with that except the dealer has not had the servicing work to do but is being asked to "step in" just for a warranty job
Thirdly, the payment rates for warranty work are not really in tune with the normal rates for jobs, they are generally quite a lot less.
Lastly, dealers will prioritise their regular customers.
Damian
Moderator
Without knowing what problems you have had and what has been done, as you say "this has been an ongoing problem since you bought the van" but you do not say when you bought it, or if you have had it since 2009, it is impossible to give a full answer.
Your only hope is to ask Bailey to help in locating a dealer or workshop to look at it.
Also, why has the floor got to be replaced?
What is the reason you have been told this?
Your only hope is to ask Bailey to help in locating a dealer or workshop to look at it.
Also, why has the floor got to be replaced?
What is the reason you have been told this?
bertieboy1 said:
With regret I would say yes it is, as the selling dealer who one has the contract with has gone out of business. for me there are two points to consider "although I could be wrong" one the age of the van it is now 5years old and while it may still be like new it is not, considering the construction methods employed the whole van would need to stripped, not a job a dealer would undertake as it is a factory repair. second the value of a van that age compered to the cost of repair could make it a write off, fighting the manufacturer for the loss could be a very costly and lengthy business without the support of the dealer it was bought from assuming it was new at the time of purchase, if however it was pre owned when bought it could be impossible to prove the fault was there when the manufacturing process occured.
I've had warranty work done by another dealer, one I didn't buy from.
But I also had them do the service, items were a new Ariel, and window catch.
But I also had them do the service, items were a new Ariel, and window catch.
It seems to me that Baileys attitude is unhelpful and is one reason why we have not bought one when we replaced our caravan this year.
I would go back to Bailey detailing the dealers you have approached and who have refused to help and point out to them that they give the guarantee and it is for them arrange to carry out the necessary work. I would make it plain that their attitude is now on the internet and their reply will also appear there. If they do not assist you will be looking at taking legal action and if you have access to either of the clubs legal helplines or possibly one through your house insurers or work or union have a word with them to see what they suggest.
Not sure if they will take it it up for you but if you can get a newspaper interested you might be surprised how quickly things get resolved.
I do have to say I do see the other dealers point as this is their busiest tome of the year and certainly the dealer we bought from had all on servicing his own customers caravans and preparing the new ones they had sold. When we were there a couple of weeks back they were actually handing over three new caravans to customers and frankly I doubt they could have taken on other work. It might be the dealers would do it later in the year when things quieten down though.
Let us know what happens.
I would go back to Bailey detailing the dealers you have approached and who have refused to help and point out to them that they give the guarantee and it is for them arrange to carry out the necessary work. I would make it plain that their attitude is now on the internet and their reply will also appear there. If they do not assist you will be looking at taking legal action and if you have access to either of the clubs legal helplines or possibly one through your house insurers or work or union have a word with them to see what they suggest.
Not sure if they will take it it up for you but if you can get a newspaper interested you might be surprised how quickly things get resolved.
I do have to say I do see the other dealers point as this is their busiest tome of the year and certainly the dealer we bought from had all on servicing his own customers caravans and preparing the new ones they had sold. When we were there a couple of weeks back they were actually handing over three new caravans to customers and frankly I doubt they could have taken on other work. It might be the dealers would do it later in the year when things quieten down though.
Let us know what happens.
Some of the posts suggest there is more to this case than we have been given. Consequently any specific advice is likely to be ill judged.
And in this case, it seems we may not have all the relevant facts, and some of the history may be very pertinent to the way the works must be carried out up to this point. My short advice to contact Bailey caravans and deal with their after sales department. My reasons for this advice are summarised below.
What I have picked up on the inaccurate way in which the phrase "Bailey Warranty" has been used. It may be an innocent mistake, but the implications are potentially significant.
When you make any retail purchase in the UK your statutory rights as enshrined in the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA) automatically kick in, which in a nut shell require the goods to be of satisfactory quality and without defect at the point of sale. SoGA only sets obligations between the customer and the seller.
Unless you purchased direct from the manufacturer, the manufacturer has no control or obligation under SoGA as they are not a party to the contract of sale. However if you used a finance package to purchase the goods (where the goods are collateral) then the finance house has joint responsibility for the condition of the goods. This is a very powerful piece of consumer legislation, which is all too often overlooked.
Sadly if the seller goes out of business, then you have no leverage with the seller, but you might still have leverage with the finance company who has joint responsibilities with the seller. No other sealer will under take SoGA work for you as they were not part of the contract of sale.
The Baily's or any other manufacturers warranty/guarantee is an entirely different and separate business to your SoGA rights. Manufacturers are not obliged to provide any aftersales cover for endusers. So the fact that most manufacturer's do provide a guarantee/warranty is a bonus, but it comes with strings. The Terms and Conditions (T&C's) set out what the manufacture will do given a specific set of circumstances, and it also sets out what the caravan owner must do to retain their rights to call on the guarantee. The T&C's can be as tight as the manufacturer wishes, and it often sets out a strict timetable for certain inspections and maintenance tasks that must be adhered to. Even though the guarantee is gift from the manufacturer you have to register and accept the T&C's which makes it a contract.
As with any contract if either party fails to adhere to the agreed T&C's the contract will have been breeched. The way such situations are managed should be set out in the T&C's. This is why it's important to read the small print so you know the in's and out's of the contract.
Even though the Manufacturer's Guarantee may appear to offer similar benefits to SoGA, it can never supplant your statutory rights, you will often see a phrase like "Your statutory rights are not affected" as part of the manufactures T&C's.
So what are the main differences?
SoGA can only be invoked between the customer and the seller, for the 'life time' of the product up to a maximum of 6 years (Yes Six years) in the England and Wales or 5 years in Scotland. However there is a burden of proof that the fault must have been present or inherently present at the point of purchase. Manufacturers can set their own time usage criteria limits in their guarantees, and some items may be explicitly excluded, or have an obligation attached such as servicing to a strict timetable, or other 'must do's' as set out by the manufacturer.
With a SoGA repair the dealer cannot use the opinion of the manufacture to determine the outcome of a SoGA remedy. The test is what would a reasonable person expect. With the manufacturers guarantee the Manufactures decision is final.
With a SoGA remedy the seller is obliged to inconvenience the customer as little as possible, so for example the seller is must arrange the collection and redelivery of faulty items from and too the customer. They cannot charge you for this unless no fault is found or the items has been abused. Most manufactures guarantee make it the customers responsibility to get the goods and from the repair depot.
When dealing with either a SoGA or a manufacturers guarantee claim its important to know who the main contractor is. The main contractors are :=
SoGA = The seller
Manufactures Guarantee = The Manufacturer (this is usually sub contracted out to the dealer)
Any issues to do with the progress of the claim should be sent in writing to the main contractor or to their nominated representative.
With SoGA Only the seller can undertake the remedy, so it helps to be geographically close to them. The prime benefit of the Manufacturers Guarantee is that you can have works carried out under the guarantee by any participating dealer, you are not tied to your seller.
If the work is being covered under the Manufacturers guarantee, then the manufacturer is the main contractor, and the dealer is a sub contractor. If the sub contractor ceases to trade, then the manufacture, as the main contractor, is liable to find an alternative subcontractor to complete the work at their expense, unless such conditions are covered differently in the guarantees T&C's.
Unfortunately under SoGA if a seller ceases to trade then the customer has no redress to any other source for SoGA issues.
And in this case, it seems we may not have all the relevant facts, and some of the history may be very pertinent to the way the works must be carried out up to this point. My short advice to contact Bailey caravans and deal with their after sales department. My reasons for this advice are summarised below.
What I have picked up on the inaccurate way in which the phrase "Bailey Warranty" has been used. It may be an innocent mistake, but the implications are potentially significant.
When you make any retail purchase in the UK your statutory rights as enshrined in the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA) automatically kick in, which in a nut shell require the goods to be of satisfactory quality and without defect at the point of sale. SoGA only sets obligations between the customer and the seller.
Unless you purchased direct from the manufacturer, the manufacturer has no control or obligation under SoGA as they are not a party to the contract of sale. However if you used a finance package to purchase the goods (where the goods are collateral) then the finance house has joint responsibility for the condition of the goods. This is a very powerful piece of consumer legislation, which is all too often overlooked.
Sadly if the seller goes out of business, then you have no leverage with the seller, but you might still have leverage with the finance company who has joint responsibilities with the seller. No other sealer will under take SoGA work for you as they were not part of the contract of sale.
The Baily's or any other manufacturers warranty/guarantee is an entirely different and separate business to your SoGA rights. Manufacturers are not obliged to provide any aftersales cover for endusers. So the fact that most manufacturer's do provide a guarantee/warranty is a bonus, but it comes with strings. The Terms and Conditions (T&C's) set out what the manufacture will do given a specific set of circumstances, and it also sets out what the caravan owner must do to retain their rights to call on the guarantee. The T&C's can be as tight as the manufacturer wishes, and it often sets out a strict timetable for certain inspections and maintenance tasks that must be adhered to. Even though the guarantee is gift from the manufacturer you have to register and accept the T&C's which makes it a contract.
As with any contract if either party fails to adhere to the agreed T&C's the contract will have been breeched. The way such situations are managed should be set out in the T&C's. This is why it's important to read the small print so you know the in's and out's of the contract.
Even though the Manufacturer's Guarantee may appear to offer similar benefits to SoGA, it can never supplant your statutory rights, you will often see a phrase like "Your statutory rights are not affected" as part of the manufactures T&C's.
So what are the main differences?
SoGA can only be invoked between the customer and the seller, for the 'life time' of the product up to a maximum of 6 years (Yes Six years) in the England and Wales or 5 years in Scotland. However there is a burden of proof that the fault must have been present or inherently present at the point of purchase. Manufacturers can set their own time usage criteria limits in their guarantees, and some items may be explicitly excluded, or have an obligation attached such as servicing to a strict timetable, or other 'must do's' as set out by the manufacturer.
With a SoGA repair the dealer cannot use the opinion of the manufacture to determine the outcome of a SoGA remedy. The test is what would a reasonable person expect. With the manufacturers guarantee the Manufactures decision is final.
With a SoGA remedy the seller is obliged to inconvenience the customer as little as possible, so for example the seller is must arrange the collection and redelivery of faulty items from and too the customer. They cannot charge you for this unless no fault is found or the items has been abused. Most manufactures guarantee make it the customers responsibility to get the goods and from the repair depot.
When dealing with either a SoGA or a manufacturers guarantee claim its important to know who the main contractor is. The main contractors are :=
SoGA = The seller
Manufactures Guarantee = The Manufacturer (this is usually sub contracted out to the dealer)
Any issues to do with the progress of the claim should be sent in writing to the main contractor or to their nominated representative.
With SoGA Only the seller can undertake the remedy, so it helps to be geographically close to them. The prime benefit of the Manufacturers Guarantee is that you can have works carried out under the guarantee by any participating dealer, you are not tied to your seller.
If the work is being covered under the Manufacturers guarantee, then the manufacturer is the main contractor, and the dealer is a sub contractor. If the sub contractor ceases to trade, then the manufacture, as the main contractor, is liable to find an alternative subcontractor to complete the work at their expense, unless such conditions are covered differently in the guarantees T&C's.
Unfortunately under SoGA if a seller ceases to trade then the customer has no redress to any other source for SoGA issues.
hi Prof,
A well constructed very informative piece of information well done.
we all know your knowledge of SOGA is second to none, with respect to the OP's situation all the facts are not known and in such circumstances only generalities can be advised on, however one can be assured on one thing and that is there can be no address made under SOGA as the seller is no longer trading, therefore the only possible redress is the manufacturers warranty but as you say warranties have T&C's I have found over the years most of these seem not to be worth the paper they are written on. the T&C's have so many loop holes and exceptions written in that it gives the impression that it is a waste of time enacting the guarantee, and in this customers like the OP are very much on their own, one could of course take matters through the courts but this can be a very costly exercise and could cost more than the value of the van,
I have been in a similar situation buying faulty goods on a few occasions and found the best way is to write off the loss and move on, this is sad when it is a high value item like a caravan but may be the only way forwards.
A well constructed very informative piece of information well done.
we all know your knowledge of SOGA is second to none, with respect to the OP's situation all the facts are not known and in such circumstances only generalities can be advised on, however one can be assured on one thing and that is there can be no address made under SOGA as the seller is no longer trading, therefore the only possible redress is the manufacturers warranty but as you say warranties have T&C's I have found over the years most of these seem not to be worth the paper they are written on. the T&C's have so many loop holes and exceptions written in that it gives the impression that it is a waste of time enacting the guarantee, and in this customers like the OP are very much on their own, one could of course take matters through the courts but this can be a very costly exercise and could cost more than the value of the van,
I have been in a similar situation buying faulty goods on a few occasions and found the best way is to write off the loss and move on, this is sad when it is a high value item like a caravan but may be the only way forwards.
As usual we never seem to get the full detail.
does the OP have any legal expenses Insurance?
How did he pay? Credit card?
A similar issue arose with Swift who featured on Do m's don' get done TV programme. Swift very decently took back the defective caravan and gave new one in return .
As the others have stated you must have very clear technical evidence to support your allegations. You need to be certain all aspects of the water ingress the & cs have been complied with
does the OP have any legal expenses Insurance?
How did he pay? Credit card?
A similar issue arose with Swift who featured on Do m's don' get done TV programme. Swift very decently took back the defective caravan and gave new one in return .
As the others have stated you must have very clear technical evidence to support your allegations. You need to be certain all aspects of the water ingress the & cs have been complied with
While the Prof's assessment of the SOGA rules is correct we then have a separate contract, the guarantee which the manufacturer gives you as a consequence of you buying his caravan. Provided you have followed the rules and there is no indication that this has not happened then given the problems encountered any reasonable manufacturer would try and assist his customer not fob them off as seems to have happened here. Given what Bailey seem to be saying, if this was you would you want another of their caravans when the time comes to change. It appears yet another example of the total disregard for the customer which we see regularly on these forums.
Hello Ray,
If the OP purchased the caravan new, ands he registered it with Bailey then he would have a contract with Bailey, but he only tells he is the owner of a 2009 caravan, not whether he purchased it new or second hand and how long he has owned it. If he purchased it S/H it could well be the Manufacturers Guarantee was not transferred, or because of the age of the caravan some or all the rights have time expired. Don't forget dealers guarantees are not as generous as SoGA.
The OP has been very economical with the facts, and i suspect there are some important snippets of information we have not been given. Consequently we cannot offer firm advice on who if anyone other than the caravan owner may be liable.
In terms of finding another dealer to carry out repairs, yes most of the main dealer will be busy at this time of year, There may be independent service and repair centres that don't have the sales PDI's to do who may be more flexible about undertaking such work.
Another aspect of this, is the work is extensive, and that is going to tie up workshop space, so perhaps repairer's are concerned at the restriction in workshop throughput that such as job will incur.
I'm not sure that this case is necessarily a bad refection on Bailey. Consider that none of the caravan dealers are owned by Bailey, so Bailey cannot at the drop of a hat direct them to undertake work. All manufacturers either publish or make available on line, lists of their dealerships, so customers can easily find their most local dealership and perhaps that is what the OP was advised to do.
Before we are too judgemental we need more facts.
If the OP purchased the caravan new, ands he registered it with Bailey then he would have a contract with Bailey, but he only tells he is the owner of a 2009 caravan, not whether he purchased it new or second hand and how long he has owned it. If he purchased it S/H it could well be the Manufacturers Guarantee was not transferred, or because of the age of the caravan some or all the rights have time expired. Don't forget dealers guarantees are not as generous as SoGA.
The OP has been very economical with the facts, and i suspect there are some important snippets of information we have not been given. Consequently we cannot offer firm advice on who if anyone other than the caravan owner may be liable.
In terms of finding another dealer to carry out repairs, yes most of the main dealer will be busy at this time of year, There may be independent service and repair centres that don't have the sales PDI's to do who may be more flexible about undertaking such work.
Another aspect of this, is the work is extensive, and that is going to tie up workshop space, so perhaps repairer's are concerned at the restriction in workshop throughput that such as job will incur.
I'm not sure that this case is necessarily a bad refection on Bailey. Consider that none of the caravan dealers are owned by Bailey, so Bailey cannot at the drop of a hat direct them to undertake work. All manufacturers either publish or make available on line, lists of their dealerships, so customers can easily find their most local dealership and perhaps that is what the OP was advised to do.
Before we are too judgemental we need more facts.
Hi Prof I do understand what you are saying but Bailey give the guarantee and should make more effort to honour it. I accept that there may be some details missing from the original post but if as it reads the only problem is finding a dealer to help, if this is right, surely Bailey could at least look at the problem and contact dealers to see if they will help. If there was a problem with the guarantee then Bailey would have turned the claim down rather than say find a dealer.The dealer will get paid if the claim is accepted even though it might be at a lower rate than if the OP was a customer being charged but that should not be enough to turn you down flat and a good service could get both the dealer and Bailey a further sale when it is time to change the current van, but the current situation will put the customer off both.
I know dealers are busy but thinking about this further and knowing the parts supply by the manufacturers I doubt the bits needed would turn up for some time and the dealer might then be able to fit it in later in the year when things are quieter.
A bit more detail might help but on the face of it the service is pretty poor.
If the OP purchased the caravan new, and he registered it with Bailey then he would have a contract with Bailey, but he only tells he is the owner of a 2009 caravan, not whether he purchased it new or second hand and how long he has owned it. If he purchased it S/H it could well be the Manufacturers Guarantee was not transferred, or because of the age of the caravan some or all the rights have time expired. Don't forget dealers guarantees are not as generous as SoGA.
The OP has been very economical with the facts, and i suspect there are some important snippets of information we have not been given. Consequently we cannot offer firm advice on who if anyone other than the caravan owner may be liable.
In terms of finding another dealer to carry out repairs, yes most of the main dealer will be busy at this time of year, There may be independent service and repair centres that don't have the sales PDI's to do who may be more flexible about undertaking such work.
Another aspect of this, is the work is extensive, and that is going to tie up workshop space, so perhaps repairer's are concerned at the restriction in workshop throughput that such as job will incur.
I'm not sure that this case is necessarily a bad refection on Bailey. Consider that none of the caravan dealers are owned by Bailey, so Bailey cannot at the drop of a hat direct them to undertake work. All manufacturers either publish or make available on line, lists of their dealerships, so customers can easily find their most local dealership and perhaps that is what the OP was advised to do.
Before we are too judgemental we need more facts.[/quote]
I know dealers are busy but thinking about this further and knowing the parts supply by the manufacturers I doubt the bits needed would turn up for some time and the dealer might then be able to fit it in later in the year when things are quieter.
A bit more detail might help but on the face of it the service is pretty poor.
If the OP purchased the caravan new, and he registered it with Bailey then he would have a contract with Bailey, but he only tells he is the owner of a 2009 caravan, not whether he purchased it new or second hand and how long he has owned it. If he purchased it S/H it could well be the Manufacturers Guarantee was not transferred, or because of the age of the caravan some or all the rights have time expired. Don't forget dealers guarantees are not as generous as SoGA.
The OP has been very economical with the facts, and i suspect there are some important snippets of information we have not been given. Consequently we cannot offer firm advice on who if anyone other than the caravan owner may be liable.
In terms of finding another dealer to carry out repairs, yes most of the main dealer will be busy at this time of year, There may be independent service and repair centres that don't have the sales PDI's to do who may be more flexible about undertaking such work.
Another aspect of this, is the work is extensive, and that is going to tie up workshop space, so perhaps repairer's are concerned at the restriction in workshop throughput that such as job will incur.
I'm not sure that this case is necessarily a bad refection on Bailey. Consider that none of the caravan dealers are owned by Bailey, so Bailey cannot at the drop of a hat direct them to undertake work. All manufacturers either publish or make available on line, lists of their dealerships, so customers can easily find their most local dealership and perhaps that is what the OP was advised to do.
Before we are too judgemental we need more facts.[/quote]
Hello Ray,
We simply do not have enough firm information to know if the OP is or is not covered by Bailey's guarantee. That is critical to context and nature of Bailey's reported response.
Its my view that given the reported responses the OP has had, is that its most likely the OP does not have any Bailey guarantee, and in that context the responses are perfectly reasonable.
But if the OP does have Bailey guarantee cover remaining (Which based on the information we have is very much open to debate), then I whole heartedly agree the report suggests very poor afters sales performance.
Perhaps there is a dispute about whether the caravan is covered of not by Bailey guarantee. Perhaps for some reason that we have not been made aware of Bailey have withdrawn or curtailed guarantee cover.
At this stage with the lack of corroborated information it is premature to claim that Bailey are in the wrong.
And just for the record I have no axe to grind one way or the other.
We simply do not have enough firm information to know if the OP is or is not covered by Bailey's guarantee. That is critical to context and nature of Bailey's reported response.
Its my view that given the reported responses the OP has had, is that its most likely the OP does not have any Bailey guarantee, and in that context the responses are perfectly reasonable.
But if the OP does have Bailey guarantee cover remaining (Which based on the information we have is very much open to debate), then I whole heartedly agree the report suggests very poor afters sales performance.
Perhaps there is a dispute about whether the caravan is covered of not by Bailey guarantee. Perhaps for some reason that we have not been made aware of Bailey have withdrawn or curtailed guarantee cover.
At this stage with the lack of corroborated information it is premature to claim that Bailey are in the wrong.
And just for the record I have no axe to grind one way or the other.
Assuming the OP has read our discussion on this matter perhaps he could let us know the answers to the missing points.
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