Bailey window blown out - any advice?

[TheSleuth]

Short and sweet = Lock the windows before you commence your journey

No Trevor. Shortsighted and sweet.

The only thing that's undisputed here by everybody is that windows will flap. It's not a perfect world.

Better hope it's not that other not-so-perfect-as-you's Wyoming kitchen window that decapitates you or your family.

One benefit of short sightedness is you probably won't see it coming

 

[Damian]

Quote "Damien

As you weren't even aware the stays had a limiting stop essential for their function I can't take your technical analysis very seriously either."

I have just this minute taken a brand new tube stay out of a bag and found that indeed there is a stop limiter, so my apologies for stating an incorrect thing.

However, as the only stays I have ever had to change are from older vans, which had no stop limiter, then obviously the manufacturers have improved the design.

Even wit a stop limiter, which by the material used, plastic and aluminium, it would not be strong enough to withstand being torn away by a slipstream from a flapping window, which providing the catches are secured correctly should not be an issue.

 

[TheSleuth]

Malcom my personal view point is that you screwed up and it cost you money and that hurt. You expected to get a pat on the back here and you didn't and now are still trying to blame Bailey and anyone else.

I don't care what sort of fitting and catches that any caravan has. When one of us forgot to secure a side window I expected it to be gone by the time I stopped and was very surprised that it was still attached to the caravan.

I've had very frightening experiences on all sorts of roads, that would not prevent me from slowing very quickly to prevent the wind turbulence lifting the open window and stopping. It seems your fear due to a previous experience made you decide to continue on with a flapping window.

To my mind that was your choice and that action may have caused the loss of the window.

Damian posted that he could find no comparative posts about windows being lost. That's because people do windows up or slow down and stop and close them quickly if they see they are open.

Some people would be to embarassed to admit that they forgot to secure a window and lost it.

Some roof lights are very flimsy, if you do not close them they will self destruct. Been there, done it and got the T shirt! But the Flimsy brand New replacement is now over twenty years old and still fine, caravan off its wheels on a farm in Somerset. It did lots of miles with us and after we passed it on, it came a bit loose but I can't see why it would need re-designing as it did the job.

Designs change but very few modern day caravan manufacturers use one off windows and I guess that other caravans will have the same fitment.

Series 6 Wyoming, there must be a few thousand on the road and it would be interesting to know how many windows they've lost or how many of that typpe of window have come adrift. I bet it's not many and that most of your model vans will still be rolling with the same windows in place in many years to come.

That's my view, I worry that too many people want to blame others for their failings rather than take repsonsibility these days. I think Bailey are the people to address the window problem if there is an issue and that this is not the place to slag them off or the window manufacturer using one persons point of view when most of our experiences tells all others that it is a user created problem.

euro

Assume what you like about my motives. That's exactly what it is like the rest of your comments - unfounded assumptions.

Of course I'm sore at the cost, sore at Bailey for a knee jerk reaction and made that clear from the outset. I still am. Bailey has done excellent safety work with Bath on the ATC so its doubly disappointing.

The only FACTS are that this window detached when you'd expect it to be the least vulnerable and by everyone's acknowledgement such outcome is unusual. I didn't have all the bits at first as they'd literally gone out the window. But since I have, I've looked closely at the design, and it's deficient in several respects to others on my own van and all others I can see which I have listed. I've looked, not complacently assumed.

Nor have I made assertions about proven testing of the specific assembly but conveniently failed to back it up when challenged.

I may not have your proud claim to years of caravanning but I am a professionally qualified engineer with a full working life managing design and manufactured products and that experience is entirely relevant. Maybe you'd let us know yours euro as you can be so dismissive?

I have talked the matter through with another Bailey Senator owner who is employed in a senior role as an aeronautical test engineer who in turn has looked at his van (nearside kitchen window fortunately so not as exposed as mine) and concurs my view, as does another poster here.

I have suggested Practical Caravan technical experts have a look.

The very first thing approving authorities and safety engineers would have wanted to know when faced with a new concept hinged device lacking any mechanical fixings is "What happens if the window is left or becomes unlatched for any reason". (Yes Trevor I know you should latch it but you can't control third parties, and it surely does happen a lot, and in many cases it won't be noticed by the driver immediately or at all because, as testified here, posters including the amusing euro have repeatedly had to point this out to others who were blissfully unaware). The only answer that could have been given and acceptable is "the stays keep the thing attached".

Well mine didn't! And whether you're smugly sure that everything is without question as it should be without having looked in any detail, the highly dangerous outcome is worthy of some serious investigation.

And, since you ask, Yes this is the very place to find out others views and experiences even if I disagree with them as profoundly as I do with yours. It is the place for serious discussion potentially affecting many users and a subject that deserves better than smart sarcasm whatever your viewpoint.

 

[TheSleuth]

Quote "Damien

As you weren't even aware the stays had a limiting stop essential for their function I can't take your technical analysis very seriously either."

I have just this minute taken a brand new tube stay out of a bag and found that indeed there is a stop limiter, so my apologies for stating an incorrect thing.

However, as the only stays I have ever had to change are from older vans, which had no stop limiter, then obviously the manufacturers have improved the design.

Even wit a stop limiter, which by the material used, plastic and aluminium, it would not be strong enough to withstand being torn away by a slipstream from a flapping window, which providing the catches are secured correctly should not be an issue.

Damien

I've reread that bit of my message and it was a bit rude so apologies too!

Maybe the older vans you refer to had a mechnically fastened hinge when the angle the window swings up to is totally unimportant and where the stay simply does what you indicated earlier - to keep the window at the required angle when on site.

With the non-mechanically attached extrusion hinge used on most if not all modern vans, an unstayed window will literally fall off if raised to the horizontal whether the van is moving or stationary. Which is why the stay MUST be strong enough to prevent that happening. If you don't believe me just unscrew the (hopefully!) two stay brackets on the window frame and lift the outer edge.

You will notice as well that the stays support the lower edge(the outer edge when horizontal) which is not the case on this one window in the Wyoming which is supported and restrained very close to the hinge. I simply cannot understand why? In consequence if the stay is a tad too long or can be suddenly pulled out just a tiny bit by a jerk bending the fairly flimsy single attachment bracket then, Bingo!, you no longer have a hinge but an acrylic window on a stay like a TV plate balancers!

IS there any chance of getting your technical people to look see and voice an opinion?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Malcolm,

I have considerable sympathy over the incident, and I am noted for roasting caravan companies for their apparent lack of attention to quality and reliability, but I think in this instant you have had an unfortunate experience, and that has heightened your awareness of the situation. Sadly I think it may have also distorted your view of the significance of the event.

I agree with you that it is the responsibility of designers to assess their products for failure modes, and to look at the consequence of such a failure, but that has to moderated by the probability level, and all the evidence is that your type of incidence has a very low probability.

If the designers hands are not tied by other constraints (time, complexity and cost etc.) then they should look to continue to improve the product.

That said, you have failed to convince me ( and many others on the forum) that a change is necessary.

Frankly, I am not sure what you are trying to archive by pursuing the issue further on the forum. After all none of us here can actually influence the design or force the Manufacturers to re-visit their designs.

You should be discussing the matter with Bailey.

If you are so convinced there is a design fault then you must pursue the matter through the Sale Of Goods acts and seek a remedy from your supplier.

We will be watching the forum for a report of the outcome.

 

[Guest]

Malcom I

 

[Guest]

Malcom I retired at 50 and I was a Civil engineer. Different kind of engineering but my caravanning brother is a F1 engineer. Anything I may lack re mechanical engineering is more than covered by his expertise but I can assure you that I have a good understanding of good and bad design.

Caravan fittings are designed with weight in mind, and it's easy to over engineer many parts leaving and engineer in charge.

Caravan windows are designed for travelling in a secured closed position. If the windows on your type of van were flying off in the closed position then I could understand your beef over the product. If that were the case there would be a design fault.

We've had a few caravans and have been in dozens if not hundreds of others, all the windows and fittings I've ever seen have been of light weight design and construction. In high winds with the van on site I would expect to see wide open windows damaged or become detached and I would consider the owner to be negligent in leaving a window wide open in bad conditions.

The plain fact is that -

If the windows in question stay in place on the road when closed then the design is pretty darn fine!

Well qualified engineer and being practical can be miles apart.

 

[Trevor_374452713]

Malcolm - After 30 years as a Police Motorway Patrol Officer - check it all before you commence your journey, if its loose - shut it, if its not, it will disappear

 

[Dustydog]

Seems to me the main point is that the window design should be "fail safe" and even if left unlatched should not be able to detatch from the caravan. Thus the hinges should be on the front leading edge like most cars of today. Mmm not sure that would look good when open, a hazard?

Also restraining straps could be fitted limiting the extent the window can be opened. I guess it's all down to cost.

As much as I question manufacturers QA/ QC the same principle applies to us regarding a "safe system of check and supervision" before departure. Always double check and then , hopefully, Malcolm's experience will not be repeated.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[ShadySadie]

Do I detect a cover up here.

Cruising the autoroute window flapping, our hero cruises to the next aire so his partner alongside him doesn't realise that he's failed to lock the window.

To late, when he stopped the Window has gone and he can't hide his failure and the ear bashing starts.

Our hero has to blame the design to save face and calms his partner with an assurance that the manufacturers will pay up.

That didn't happen so he tried to get solace here, but failed as all realise that he ****** up.

Only guessing boys 8O)

I think you could be prosecuted by the police in any country for not securing a window if it had flown off and hit someone.

I'm sure they would not accept design as the root cause.

The root cause would be the driver who failed to check the outfit.

 

[Parksy]

Do I detect a cover up here.

Cruising the autoroute window flapping, our hero cruises to the next aire so his partner alongside him doesn't realise that he's failed to lock the window.

To late, when he stopped the Window has gone and he can't hide his failure and the ear bashing starts.

Our hero has to blame the design to save face and calms his partner with an assurance that the manufacturers will pay up.

That didn't happen so he tried to get solace here, but failed as all realise that he ****** up.

Only guessing boys 8O)

I think you could be prosecuted by the police in any country for not securing a window if it had flown off and hit someone.

I'm sure they would not accept design as the root cause.

The root cause would be the driver who failed to check the outfit.

Ouch!! I felt that from here.

Handbag a man when he's down why don't you

Lol

 

[caravanoracle]

as an aftersales manager with over 17yrs experience i have only known of you and one other leaving a window unlatched and consequently loosing the window. when you consider i see approx 1000 caravans a year for servicing and approx another 1000 caravans a year for other various reasons, i would say that this window issue is simply NOT a problem design, safety or otherwise.

 

[TheSleuth]

I was about to draw a line under this discussion when the correct replacement stay arrived. For the record it weighs 53 gm (one and seven eighths ounces). Hardly a critical area to look for weight saving then! So the reason to leave one stay off must be cost saving alone.

But what has simply stunned me is that the stay rod isn't extruded metal like all the ones that caravan oracle and others say have worked perfectly well for ages are "tried and tested" etc etc but is plastic for heaven's sake! Now I AM beginning to understand why such a small window which should have lower forces on it broke free when others much bigger that folk have seen flapping didn't. All the umbulla claimed about past history is thus even further discredited as that's 5 Major differences now from the norm:

- leading edge unsupported/unstayed into any turbulence (totally avoidable at no cost penalty - see below)

- mounting position near hinge, not at edge of window so wind lever effect actually pushes hinge DOWN towards the point where it CAN come free instead of holding it in a place so it it can't

- stay rod plastic not metal. Just crazy

- no clamp to frame on stay, and critically

- only the single stay which permits twisting where two don't

Any one of these I would see as poor design but in combination I think this is highly suspect to fulfill the failsafe case.

What's more the part description is .."Right Hand, 140mm stay, PACK Perma-fix end, POLFIX c/w fittings. So why the hell didn't Bailey get a LEFT Hand one and fit it to the leading edge if they must have just one? No weight penalty, no cost penalty,no more work for anyone, just the correct end and detachment much less likely!

And all this is with 50% less latches.

Perhaps the other armchair experts who know its all safe ("this window issue is simply NOT a problem design, safety or otherwise" would care to suggest at what point (size/shape etc) its acceptable to move to a single plastic stay and why. I repeat: this is the smallest and thus supposedly the least vulnerable to risk of detachment. But it did. Please explain why?

I have been thinking too about the checking of latches which people rightly say is a vital safety task. One I always try to follow despite the assumptions of the perfect few. The window didn't come loose until I'd travelled over 2hrs/100 miles that day after an overnight stop and I am almost certain that we opened or closed no windows in our brief stay, which means two days travel of 200 miles+ and two checks which failed to spot an unlatched or incorrectly latched window before it opens. Very strange. Could it be the latches WERE down but in the secondary position and it vibrated open? I can't see how that's possible as the motion is stiffened as it should be by a friction washer.

As for those who think I'm a chump for not stopping right away, THEY maybe haven't had to stop in similar circumstances on the continent, if they've travelled there at all. I have, as said earlier, and it was terrifyingly dangerous. Your door is on the offside (traffic side) for starters unlike the UK and big vehicles make no deviation.

Perhaps they should listen to the advice of those actually qualified in preference to their own self opiniated diatribe ( see http://www.rac.co.uk/know-how/accidents-incidents/breakdown/hard-shoulder-accidents-incidents.htm)

"You are the best person to decide what is safest for you, but it is recommended that:

You don't attempt to repair your vehicle on a hard shoulder. It is highly dangerous, particularly on the side nearest the traffic. Use a motorway telephone to get professional help.

and also

http://www.motoraccidentclaims.co.uk/news-content.cfm/Article/82231/Highways-Agency-Traffic-Officers-Remind.html
Last year, on England's motorways, there were 12 fatal hard shoulder accidents and 28 serious accidents. These are accidents where at least one vehicle involved was entering or leaving the hard shoulder.

As a result of these accidents, 15 people died and 42 were seriously injured.

Jo Ashton-Gray, Operations Manager for the Highways Agency said:

"Motorway hard shoulders are for emergency use only, and you should only stop if there is a real emergency and you have no other choice.

"Motorists have a key role to play in reducing death and injury, both to themselves and to those who attend in any kind of emergency on motorways. If you can, try to drive to safer place off the motorway instead."

Which is precisely what I did at reduced speed and for a very short distance. You all say windows coming out is as scarce as rocking horse poo, just as I thought, so risk was minimal. It's extremely easy to be wise after the event but it still seems to me on the balance of probabilities that my choice was the safest and since the design is apparently without flaws there should be no further risk.

It is now my intention to fit the stay and measure the geometry to see in practice just how easy it is in the static situation to detach the acrylic hinge extrusion and what pressure is necessary to overcome the stay effect. I will report back.

 

[TheSleuth]

Do I detect a cover up here.

Cruising the autoroute window flapping, our hero cruises to the next aire so his partner alongside him doesn't realise that he's failed to lock the window.

To late, when he stopped the Window has gone and he can't hide his failure and the ear bashing starts.

Our hero has to blame the design to save face and calms his partner with an assurance that the manufacturers will pay up.

That didn't happen so he tried to get solace here, but failed as all realise that he ****** up.

Only guessing boys 8O)

I think you could be prosecuted by the police in any country for not securing a window if it had flown off and hit someone.

I'm sure they would not accept design as the root cause.

The root cause would be the driver who failed to check the outfit.

Don't worry Parksy, both me 'n her do the safety checks so Shady S's assumptions don't hold any more water than some others coming from her perspective. Who also haven't looked at the detail and seem likely related to someone called Canute.

Anyway, we are celebrating our Ruby Wedding on Sunday and "her" hasn't said she isn't coming to the little do we've fixed up, which is a good sign maybe?

 

[Parksy]

Malcolm

You opened this topic and gave it's title as:

'Bailey window blown out - any advice?'

Various knowledgeable forum members have offered advice in good faith.

We're all very sorry that you lost your window Malcolm but you risk alienating fellow forum members by writing:

'Perhaps the other armchair experts who know its all safe ("this window issue is simply NOT a problem design, safety or otherwise" would care to suggest at what point (size/shape etc) its acceptable to move to a single plastic stay and why. I repeat: this is the smallest and thus supposedly the least vulnerable to risk of detachment. But it did. Please explain why?'

and

'Perhaps they should listen to the advice of those actually qualified in preference to their own self opiniated diatribe'

It's not up to anyone on this forum to explain anything to you Malcolm and if you regard genuine advice as 'self opinionated diatribe' I don't see any way forward with your problem.

My advice is to calm down and stop rounding on those who have tried to help you.

 

[trucker]

Ive just read this post from the top, and must say Malcolm you need to calm down and put this to bed. You left the window undone live with it.

My last 3 vans have all been from the Swift stable and all have had the same style kitchen window as your bailey, and only 1 stay on the right hand side, guess what I havent lost a window proberbly because I havent left any of them open.

Kevin

 

[TheSleuth]

Malcolm

You opened this topic and gave it's title as:

'Bailey window blown out - any advice?'

Various knowledgeable forum members have offered advice in good faith.

We're all very sorry that you lost your window Malcolm but you risk alienating fellow forum members by writing:

'Perhaps the other armchair experts who know its all safe ("this window issue is simply NOT a problem design, safety or otherwise" would care to suggest at what point (size/shape etc) its acceptable to move to a single plastic stay and why. I repeat: this is the smallest and thus supposedly the least vulnerable to risk of detachment. But it did. Please explain why?'

and

'Perhaps they should listen to the advice of those actually qualified in preference to their own self opiniated diatribe'

It's not up to anyone on this forum to explain anything to you Malcolm and if you regard genuine advice as 'self opinionated diatribe' I don't see any way forward with your problem.

My advice is to calm down and stop rounding on those who have tried to help you.

Parksy

Yes I accept in retrospect that some of that language is inappropriate and apologise.

Not an excuse but what got to me was the sarcasm from some about not stopping immediately which I think my last post adequately addresses - and maybe they should apologise to me too!

Also the patronising tone of those who have nothing more to contribute than "shut the windows" rather than consider what happens when many don't is particularly irksome.

Not a single poster other than Dustydog (with the same van),

and now Trucker, has made reference to the specifics. Nor to argue my claim that due to very significant alterations, history over many years is at best unreliable, at worst misleading.

So I allowed my frustration to get the better of me in intemperate language and you rightly rebuke me.

I hope this is a more rational response?

But that said, I still think I'm gonna be proved right in the end

 

[DeliDave]

Have got back from France last Sunday and the Autoroutes were very empty also many of the positions for the emergency phones were furthur set back from the hard shoulder so if some clown ventured out of his lane they would still miss you seem much better than many of our motorway hard shoulders.

 

[Guest]

Have I been missing something for all my years of caravanning?

I'd always thought that the window stays, be they 1 or 2 per window were to hold the window in the desired open position when the caravan was parked up.

I've always considered the catches to be the tools to hold the windows closed not the stays. Have I gone wrong in my assumption.

We have two British caravans although we live in France, the old Bailey is over ten years old and has rattled across tens of thousands of miles with out any catches ever rattling free.

I consider an open window flapping around a potential danger to other road users so I would slow and stop as soon as possible, hazards ablaze and taking care of passing traffic.

My experience of an un-catched window is that it will stay closed a lot of the time and only open at speed and in the right wind conditions.

Travelling a long way from home on holiday I would also consider the potential of damage to a flapping window something that could compromise ours and the caravans security so there is no way I would not stop right away.

Another point, here in France if you stop you should don your dayglo jacket before exiting the car and deploy a warning triangle behind the vehicle before anything else, that practice and requirement should afford you a little more safety as well.

There is a simple reason why Bailey didn't use an upposite handed stay on the window.

THE CATCHES SECURE THE WINDOW NOT THE STAY!

A couple of other points, if the latches/cathes were in the secondary position you didn't secure the window correctly Malcom! The secondary position allows air flow when parked without fully opening the windows it is not a position to use when travelling.

Plus you only think the window opened just before you lost it Malcom, it could very easily have been flapping about all along your journey before you spotted it in a position wide enough out to see it or the conditions changed so that the wind flow opened it far enough for you to spot it just before you stopped to late.

 

[TheSleuth]

Ive just read this post from the top, and must say Malcolm you need to calm down and put this to bed. You left the window undone live with it.

My last 3 vans have all been from the Swift stable and all have had the same style kitchen window as your bailey, and only 1 stay on the right hand side, guess what I havent lost a window proberbly because I havent left any of them open.

Kevin

Kevin/ Trucker

As you'll see above I've apologised to Parksy so will to you as well for being OTT.

And for the record I accept without qualification your point that the likelihood of a securely latched window coming loose and then detaching has until now at least been as near zero as makes no difference. So if nothing had changed I'd have no case for concern.

But the designed HAS changed fundamentally from what has been the case in the past please believe me, and IS different from the vast majority of installations today even if your Swifts were the same. Any chance you can I/D the models and years so I might check them out?

And you're right, I would never have looked closely at the setup and thought about it much if it had simply come open and I'd had to stop and shut it again. But it didn't and I have.

But to express it more acceptably to you I hope; having looked at the thing in depth (yes, with the added pain of being out of pocket ) I'm confident enough in my own engineering abilities to be genuinely concerned. I'm not just having a go at Bailey as has been alleged although admittedly I'm pretty underwhelmed by some of the other non-safety solutions in the van and think Bailey is perhaps slipping back into its old reputation for poor quality and putting commercial gain before function in several cases. I sincerely think there is a problem here and they've made mistake which could quickly and easily be rectified or at least be very much improved at no cost.

I suppose the acid test is to open the window and drive the blooming thing for a while with it open on some airfield or other. But having neither access to that or wishing to risk another

 

[Guest]

ps

Can somebody please explain how stopping to close a window has anything to do with or equates to carrying out road side repairs.

 

[Damian]

OK guys I think this topic has run its course and nothing further is to be gained in continuing with it.

It is quite obvious that there are differences of opinion on the subject that will never be settled in a forum situation.

I think that Malcolm is better advised to take his concerns up with those who can actually do something about it, namely the manufacturer and supplier.

Whilst I can see his point, and have no idea why the fitment is as described, I cannot see any of the manufacturers changing the current situation , however, I wish Malcolm the very best in his endevours to try and get a satisfactory outcome for himself.

 

[TheSleuth]

Have I been missing something for all my years of caravanning?

I'd always thought that the window stays, be they 1 or 2 per window were to hold the window in the desired open position when the caravan was parked up.

I've always considered the catches to be the tools to hold the windows closed not the stays. Have I gone wrong in my assumption.

We have two British caravans although we live in France, the old Bailey is over ten years old and has rattled across tens of thousands of miles with out any catches ever rattling free.

I consider an open window flapping around a potential danger to other road users so I would slow and stop as soon as possible, hazards ablaze and taking care of passing traffic.

My experience of an un-catched window is that it will stay closed a lot of the time and only open at speed and in the right wind conditions.

Travelling a long way from home on holiday I would also consider the potential of damage to a flapping window something that could compromise ours and the caravans security so there is no way I would not stop right away.

Another point, here in France if you stop you should don your dayglo jacket before exiting the car and deploy a warning triangle behind the vehicle before anything else, that practice and requirement should afford you a little more safety as well.

There is a simple reason why Bailey didn't use an upposite handed stay on the window.

THE CATCHES SECURE THE WINDOW NOT THE STAY!

A couple of other points, if the latches/cathes were in the secondary position you didn't secure the window correctly Malcom! The secondary position allows air flow when parked without fully opening the windows it is not a position to use when travelling.

Plus you only think the window opened just before you lost it Malcom, it could very easily have been flapping about all along your journey before you spotted it in a position wide enough out to see it or the conditions changed so that the wind flow opened it far enough for you to spot it just before you stopped to late.

euro

Yep, Dayglo jackets (two) and warning triangle at the ready. Plus all the other mandatory gear re:lights, prescription glasses,first aid kit spare etc etc that are required in continental Europe. I check my nose weight carefully each trip and tyres, wheels, running lights, locker doors etc

I did slow as I've repeatedly confirmed and drove only a short distance.

I may be a caravan novice in your terms but before this trip I have towed twice to mid-Italy, three times to extreme quarters of France and to Spain without any mishap. I enjoy living so I'm as careful as I can be both on the road and off it.

For many years I owned and lived on a narrow narrow boat without serious incident and travelled the length and breadth of the country in it. Believe you me that's every bit as hazardous for the unwary as caravanning!!

Whilst I can't prove it to your satisfaction, I KNOW the window wasn't flapping for long before it was seen. I've driven commercial vehicles long enough to get used to using side not interior mirrors as the norm. Particuarly in France with the tailgater tendency there, although I'm sure you're not one of them.

And no I don't think the secondary position is intended for anything other than ventilation either.

We've probably exhausted this topic but I disagree with you on hard shoulder stopping and believe the expert advice is in my favour per my quotes earlier which are pretty explicit.

But also on the core issue that stays are only for holding windows open on site. I do think its a bit silly to stick to that line, I've never remotely suggested you should use the stay deliberately open in transit. There is absolutely nil chance any safety approval of concept would have given to a non-mechanically retained hinge without the key secondary function of over rotation being prevented when it was first proposed. Ask that F1 caravanning brother of yours!

And I still say with conviction that critical failsafe security role has been compromised by the many engineering alterations, individually and in combination from the initial concept.

As you are in France it is almost certain you have been unable to see at first hand my Wyoming configuration to date. It's frustrating I can't send you a sketch or photo because I think you would agree, and that it's easy to avoid now and in the future. And plastic? Pleease!

All I can ask is that when you get the opportunity you do so. With an open mind I am convinced you will have to agree its extremely poor engineering.

Bon nuit

 

[TheSleuth]

ps

Can somebody please explain how stopping to close a window has anything to do with or equates to carrying out road side repairs.

Aw c'mon euro that's just nit picking!

..............."you should only stop if there is a real emergency and you have no other choice".....

That's the explicitly unambiguous and, with all respect to you, EXPERT advice - not WHAT you do when you've stopped and have to get into the van on the exposed side.

 

[ShadySadie]

Damian can I please just offer congratulations to Malcom and his wife as hidden in the comments he has posted that they celebrate their Ruby anniversary this coming Sunday.

Some members of the forum know that I am married to an engineer, not for as long as Malcom and wife but rather longer than you get for murder.

I read all the posts and judged them as an experienced caravanner and as the wife of an engineer.

Taking into account all Malcoms posts about his window and his comment that his wife helps with their caravanning checks.

I'm now wondering if after nearly 40 years of marriage she dare question what is right or wrong with their caravan and I wondered if Practical Caravan has any spare medals as I think she must have darn well earned one ;o)

Happy anniversary Mrs Malcom and Malcom.

Sadie x