Hello All, we have a Bailley Pegasus Genoa 2012. It has been stood for about 4 weeks after our last trip. Decided to put an oil filled radiator of 500w into the van to keep a reasonable temperature. Maybe coincidence but a problem has developed after trying this. Connected the mains, noticed our electric heater was on, so turned it off. Plugged in the rad then the power went off, the RCD or MCB did not trip. Just no power to the two sockets or the microwave. Switched it off and back on, reset the trip, worked ok then went off again, then came on, now off and no response. I tried our own heater and it sounded strange as I operated the power dial and the thermostat dial. I was wondering if there is a loose connection in the heater control or socket. How to check it out is the problem. Any ideas welcome. Cheers Concrete
bailley power fault
- Thread starter concrete
- Start date
Hello concrete,
First of all what you describe certainly suggests a fault of some description, but the fact you have had to ask the question leads me to suspect you are not electrically qualified to open it up and start to check things out.
I can only really recommend you get a suitably trained person to investigate and fix.
First of all what you describe certainly suggests a fault of some description, but the fact you have had to ask the question leads me to suspect you are not electrically qualified to open it up and start to check things out.
I can only really recommend you get a suitably trained person to investigate and fix.
Thank you Prof John, I am new to the world of caravans. I am well qualified to repair the fault but I didn't want to transgress some basic rules concerning caravans. Thinking about it the 240v system should be installed in a similar fashion to any domestic installation, with which I was involved for many years. The main problem for me is exposing the wiring. I am not confident about removing and replacing trims. I intend to start at the sockets and heater thermostat to check for loose connections and progress from there. A loose or detached connection would explain the symptoms experienced. What I was after was some practical input from other caravan owners who may have experienced something similar and rectified it. Nothing new in this world!! The van is due a service soon and if the heater control is faulty I will get it replaced then. Cheers Concrete
Damian
Moderator
Quote " Thinking about it the 240v system should be installed in a similar fashion to any domestic installation,"
No, its not.
There is no ring main to start with, all are fused spurs.
One of the problems with caravans is that makers use cheap Chinese circuit breakers which are prone to failure, but not tripping the switch, notably the F&S make of breaker.
No, its not.
There is no ring main to start with, all are fused spurs.
One of the problems with caravans is that makers use cheap Chinese circuit breakers which are prone to failure, but not tripping the switch, notably the F&S make of breaker.
Damian-Moderator said:
Totally agree.
I had the familiar fault of the RCD tripping mechanically, i.e. not due to any electrical problem. I replaced it with a Schneider which was a perfect fit.
BUT the output of the RCD to feed the MCBs is two insulated copper busbars which, whilst the would fit into the relevant connection points, did not sit quite as straight in line as with the original RCD such that when I tightened the screws in the MCBs the casing of the MCBs started to split apart. We did say they were C&N Chinese things didn't we?
Fortunately I had some 2.5sqmm flex cable so I stripped it and used the flex to replace the busbars.
Never had a problem since.
Question: across the channel, especially in France, almost all MCBs (and RCDs for that matter) are double pole in a single width housing - done that way because the Schuko system uses radial rather than ring wiring, i.e. each outlet has its own MCB at source. Since the Schuko system is not polarity concious it follows that the MCB must be dual pole so that it cuts both supply connections in the event of a fault. These breakers cost about €6 or in old money a fiver. If you can find a double pole MCB in the UK - that is two singles with a ganged switch - from what I have seen they are well north of a tenner apiece. It suggests to me rather than spend a few pence more on a decent quality MCB to protect their customers the bottom line is of more consequence to caravan manufacturers.
Cynic? Moi?
Damian
Moderator
Quote " Question: across the channel, especially in France, almost all MCBs (and RCDs for that matter) are double pole in a single width housing "
And that is the type which is used in caravans, double pole .
Quote " We did say they were C&N Chinese things didn't we?"
No, it is F&S which are useless as far as UK caravans go.
And that is the type which is used in caravans, double pole .
Quote " We did say they were C&N Chinese things didn't we?"
No, it is F&S which are useless as far as UK caravans go.
Hello Concrete,
240V? how out of date
As you will know UK mains is rated at 230V ac. Whist caravan wiring tends to be radial it still has to conform to the wiring in force when it was installed., and new works have to comply with current regs.
240V? how out of date
As you will know UK mains is rated at 230V ac. Whist caravan wiring tends to be radial it still has to conform to the wiring in force when it was installed., and new works have to comply with current regs.
From the University of Nottingham, similar information from Schneider too. Dear old EU harmonisation has failed to actually make any significant difference as we still generate in UK at 242v average. Its only in law that we are 230v!
""Voltage optimisation
Voltage optimisation is a term commonly used to refer to the energy-saving technique of reducing the electricity voltage supplied to a site, in order to reduce losses in the equipment, thereby reducing energy consumption, CO2 emissions and the electricity costs. The lifetime of the equipment is also extended, because it generally runs cooler at the reduced voltage, with a consequent reduction in maintenance costs.
Most electrical equipment is designed to operate with voltages within the standardised levels (with an allowance of 4% for losses within the installation), so many items of equipment are supplied with a higher voltage than is required for satisfactory operation.
Just as it was in 1960, the supply voltage to domestic properties in the UK is still nominally 240 V AC at 50 Hz, although the declared voltage in the UK is now 230V AC +10% to -6%. Historically the domestic voltage was 240 V +/-6% (and 415V 3phase), whilst continental Europe was 220V (380V 3 phase). Since 1995 the nominal voltage across Europe has been 230V (400V 3 phase).
In practice nothing has been changed in the UK. The first stage of European voltage harmonisation required a supply voltage of 230 V of -6% to +10%, i.e. be between 216.2 to 253V from a starting point of 240V +/-6%, i.e. be between 225.6 to 254.5V.
The second stage of European harmonisation was due to happen from 1st January 2003. This was 230V +/-10%, i.e. to be between 207 to 253V. The second stage has still not been applied, as of April 2013. So the situation in the UK regarding supply voltage, stated in law is that it should be 230V -6% +10%.
It is not unusual for the supply voltage to vary substantially throughout the day. The average voltage in the UK is around 242V. This means that in the majority of properties, electrical equipment is running at a voltage much higher than needed, resulting in excessive losses in many types of equipment. This is due, in a large part that due to the so called harmonisation of supply voltages in Europe all new low voltage appliances are designed to operate at 230V or even 220V. Therefore it can be seen that much equipment designed to be operated at 230V and 220V may be being supplied with a voltage above this if we consider that the UK average supply voltage is 242V, much higher than is needed.""
""Voltage optimisation
Voltage optimisation is a term commonly used to refer to the energy-saving technique of reducing the electricity voltage supplied to a site, in order to reduce losses in the equipment, thereby reducing energy consumption, CO2 emissions and the electricity costs. The lifetime of the equipment is also extended, because it generally runs cooler at the reduced voltage, with a consequent reduction in maintenance costs.
Most electrical equipment is designed to operate with voltages within the standardised levels (with an allowance of 4% for losses within the installation), so many items of equipment are supplied with a higher voltage than is required for satisfactory operation.
Just as it was in 1960, the supply voltage to domestic properties in the UK is still nominally 240 V AC at 50 Hz, although the declared voltage in the UK is now 230V AC +10% to -6%. Historically the domestic voltage was 240 V +/-6% (and 415V 3phase), whilst continental Europe was 220V (380V 3 phase). Since 1995 the nominal voltage across Europe has been 230V (400V 3 phase).
In practice nothing has been changed in the UK. The first stage of European voltage harmonisation required a supply voltage of 230 V of -6% to +10%, i.e. be between 216.2 to 253V from a starting point of 240V +/-6%, i.e. be between 225.6 to 254.5V.
The second stage of European harmonisation was due to happen from 1st January 2003. This was 230V +/-10%, i.e. to be between 207 to 253V. The second stage has still not been applied, as of April 2013. So the situation in the UK regarding supply voltage, stated in law is that it should be 230V -6% +10%.
It is not unusual for the supply voltage to vary substantially throughout the day. The average voltage in the UK is around 242V. This means that in the majority of properties, electrical equipment is running at a voltage much higher than needed, resulting in excessive losses in many types of equipment. This is due, in a large part that due to the so called harmonisation of supply voltages in Europe all new low voltage appliances are designed to operate at 230V or even 220V. Therefore it can be seen that much equipment designed to be operated at 230V and 220V may be being supplied with a voltage above this if we consider that the UK average supply voltage is 242V, much higher than is needed.""
EH52ARH said:
Pedantic Yes, but accurate. Any current electrical engineer will know our mains supplies are rated at 230 not 240V. As a helicopter engineer you will be fully aware of the need for accuracy when specifying. If a job needs doing its worth doing it properly. Yes?
This thread is going to end up like the N/S issue, don't mention the 'Power fault', in fact I've been viewing something similar for the past couple of days on TV in the Supreme Court and I'm still no bloody wiser what they are on about,
Damian
Moderator
NO, this topic will NOT end up like the noseweight one did , or any of the others which became bogged down by the minuate of people scoring points over what is insignificant bickering.
The OP said he had power problems, he did NOT ask for detailed "as per EU Harmonisation legislation" power supply limits, it is simply good enough to say "Mains Power" whatever that maybe on a minute to minute scale, which is NOT a constant 230V.
The OP said he had power problems, he did NOT ask for detailed "as per EU Harmonisation legislation" power supply limits, it is simply good enough to say "Mains Power" whatever that maybe on a minute to minute scale, which is NOT a constant 230V.
Concrete, getting back to helping you with the problem, have you tried resetting all the Rcb's etc and trying another electrical drain, wifes hair drier, Kettle etc or even the oil heater in a different power socket, just to see if there is a difference. Just a thought. Ie back to basics,
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