Ban on smoking in vehicles with children

[colin-yorkshire]

I must confess I hate the smell of cigarette smoke and I can't abide the smell in my car, thank god for re-circulating air heater while in traffic, smoking in cars with anyone not just kids in the car is selfish and wrong on every level, on the other hand how will it be policed, it's like the use of mobile phones there's still people doing it every day, I lived with three smokers for nearly twenty five years and as such suffer respiratory problems so a ban is music to my ears.

Sean.

hi Sean, if it was only tobacco smoke that caused local pollution I would probably agree, but it isn't my chest is chronic has been for many years caused by cig smoke, I doubt it, given my work history, besides around were I live there are 3 coal fired power stations, a brick works, 2 chemical plants a a plant that make roofing felt and a household waste incinerator, so one can smell either sulphur rotten waste coal fumes or bitumen dependant on which way the wind is blowing, I doubt very much that my neighbour having a smoke on his patio 10 feet away from mine makes any difference somehow.
as for smoking in cars in general I haven't done that since 1977 when I knocked the red end off a Cig while turning right and wearing shorts, at least it did not burn the seat. :woohoo:

 

[Parksy]

This is an emotive issue which has the potential to degenerate from a reasonable discussion amongst adults into a slanging match so I will be watching closely to ensure that lines are not crossed.
Terms such as 'anti-smoking junkies', besides being a complete contradiction in terms, have no place here.

I disagree Steve, perhaps "anti smoking Mafia" is nearer the mark. but a junkie is person that gets a rush from something that others don't, like the term "speed junkie" adreneline junkie, some people get so worked up regarding anti smoking that it is difficult to describe the total animosity they show towards others with a different view. lazy is ok inconsiderate is ok below par inteligence is ok, but some of these very same people are the ones parked outside the school gates with engines running listening to the radio 30mins before school ends poluting the air with exhaust fumes so all the other kids can breath it in as they pass. but a person having a smoke in the open air were kids happen to be is disgusting, sounds about right, somehow.
still the moderators keyboard has spoken so thats fair enough.

Anti smoking Mafia is a more general term and is ok.
My reference to a contradiction in terms was because the Oxford English Dictionary defines the word 'Junkie' as 'A person with a compulsive habit or obsessive dependency on something
It would appear that the smokers are those with a habit or an obsessive dependency rather than non smokers or those who object to breathing in other peoples second hand smoke

 

[saint-spoon]

Good points well made and may I apologise to everyone if they deem my earlier post offensive, it was not meant to be so.
I smoked from the age of 13 until my late thirties, 25 year or more. I stopped the same year that it was banned in pubs although the two occurrences have no connection. One of the main differences I have noticed is the huge reduction in the severity of my annual battle with pollen. Obviously I do not suffer nearly as much from chest infections (although I did for the first couple of year smoke free).
Colin you have pointed the finger at other forms of pollution as causing respiratory problems and this is undoubtedly true to some degree; I worked in Hia Phong In Vietnam for a couple of months last year and you could almost feel your lungs aging day by day the pollution was so bad. You could actually see the exhaust smoke in the air it was that thick. It is all about concentration, and whilst the pollution was bad where I worked it was nowhere near as choking as the bar in the hotel where the majority of my Dutch Colleagues sat each evening smoking their high tar roll ups. Same goes for the dockyard office, thick with smoke. The level of pollution that smoking puts into a confined space is incomparable to atmospheric pollution; even in placed Like Hia Phong where the pollution is clearly visible in the air.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi,
I think the truth is if ones leaves out the emotion, [which unfortunatly some in the anti smoking lobby are unable to do] there is a common ground, but in order to find it one has to has to accept there are other points of view just as valid. if the latest round is really about protecting the kids, why choose a measure that costs nothing to implement when measures that would make the world of difference, are swept under the carpet because they cost money, cuts in welfare hurt the poorest, and most of these have kids, cut in social care means the there are less social workers on the ground to look after the interests of the most vunerable of our kids, child obesity is at a record level without any action and more and more kids are exposed to the use of alcohol, but there is little ever done. yet the law makers pick one measure in a long line of measures that deemed to be popular, make a big hoorah about it and hope people will forget about all the other things that would make a bigger difference for the kids it is almost like a magician using misdirection to fool us, but not all see it that way and thats how they keep getting away with it.

when the first round of anti smoking laws, were enacted people said hooray I cant' go into pubs any more because of the smoke, fine, may be that was true for some, however they still cannot go into the pub they liked and the trouble is one one else can either as it is probably closed now along with the other 150 that close every month. smoking or non smoking pubs would just have been as effective, and probably saved some of those now closed pubs. non smoking in the work place what a good idea but what has changed very little people still smoke only now go out side into a smoke shelter, which the employer has to provide at a cost, or outside the gates affecting anyone who just happens to be passing by.

some of the anti smoking mafia [thanks Parsky] insist it is their complete right not to be in the presence of anyone who smokes so therefore it should be banned as this restricts their movements, this arguement is illogical as everyone has the same rights of movement wether they smoke or not, a simple method is not to go there, give them a wide berth then every one should be happy, there is no point in throwing a wobbly because some lights up in a place there entitled to do just move away, like the other day I was walking through the park, and decided to sit down on a bench, next to a guy having a smoke, why should he have to put it out because a non smoker sat next to him he has the same right to sit there as I did, I was the one who sat there while he was smoking. if I was that bothered I would have sat somewhere else, not that hard is it, why expect a whole park to be smoke free just so one can sit on any bench one wishes makes no sense to me, but then I am one of those reasonable people that rarely gets a say as no one wants to listen to a reasonable alternative,
I dont smoke, but I dont expect everybody so stop just to please me, why should I.
I dont drink either doesn't mean I want alcohol banned,
I no longer have a dog so why should every one get rid of theirs, even if they do make a mess and bark a lot,
and the big one I no longer have a caravan, should I now want those banning as well, because I get behind one now and again, bl**dy ridicules, live and let live do your own thing and leave other to do theirs.
look after and protect your own kids, it all you can do,

 

[SteveW77]

Probably the most sensible thing I have read on this subject.
( I am a non smoker)

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Im an x smoker and my belief is if you are a smoker have consideration for those who are not smokers I think there is nothing worse than being in a position like I was stood on a market stall waiting to be served by some ignorant person blowing his second hand smoke everywhere .Colin in part I agree with your comments if not gone slightly off topic as regards pubs closing down well I think you can put some of the blame on The Supermarkets for that although I know it was the norm to go to the Pub for a pint and a *** but hey ho most people understand the ban of smoking in Pubs and of course when you can buy four packs of beer for a tenner from any Supermarket you get more for your ten quid .

 

[JonnyG]

one question for all those ex smokers who now complain about inconsiderate smokers, you i assume where ALL considerate smokers? or is it just a hypercritical response? myself I've always been a non smoker,just in case anyone assumes otherwise and frankly i have always found people to be people, not bikers not truckers not caravaners ect ect but people. why do so many like to group people, as if they will ALL act the same way!!

 

[SirRogerFFS]

JonnyG if you read my original thread you would see I kept smoke away from my Daughter.as I was only smoking something like 7 a day my smoking in public never and when at work I smoked away from the none smokers so dont tar everbody with same brush

 

[Parksy]

Both sides have made valid points but the topic is about the law which bans smoking in vehicles when children are also in that vehicle.
Whether a smoker is considerate or inconsiderate is irrelevant, and it makes no difference if the driver is a 40 a day gasper, an ex-smoker or has never smoked, the ban is law and is therefore no longer a matter of choice.
Any future posts should stick to the topic under discussion, otherwise this topic will soon be parked in a lay-by.

 

[Dustydog]

one question for all those ex smokers who now complain about inconsiderate smokers, you i assume where ALL considerate smokers? or is it just a hypercritical response? myself I've always been a non smoker,just in case anyone assumes otherwise and frankly i have always found people to be people, not bikers not truckers not caravaners ect ect but people. why do so many like to group people, as if they will ALL act the same way!!

Jonny
see my last post.
In my experience ex smokers detest smoking BUT are very tolerant towards current smokers.There are a few ex smokers who have posted and none have complained. I think your comment was slightly askew of the ex smokers view.

 

[JonnyG]

one question for all those ex smokers who now complain about inconsiderate smokers, you i assume where ALL considerate smokers? or is it just a hypercritical response? myself I've always been a non smoker,just in case anyone assumes otherwise and frankly i have always found people to be people, not bikers not truckers not caravaners ect ect but people. why do so many like to group people, as if they will ALL act the same way!!

Jonny
see my last post.
In my experience ex smokers detest smoking BUT are very tolerant towards current smokers.There are a few ex smokers who have posted and none have complained. I think your comment was slightly askew of the ex smokers view.

hi dusty,no ex smoker complained?! to quote. an ex smoker..
"I think there is nothing worse than being in a position like I was stood on a market stall waiting to be served by some ignorant person blowing his second hand smoke everywhere" .. .....tolerant or what.and what crosses my mind was why no just move away, why give your business to somebody you would describe as "some ignorant person"....and more importantly it wasn't something illegal that so called "ignorant person" was doing.. anyway i thought Clive summed it all up perfectly.. i've said enough..

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Right .Just to clarify and I will post no more on the subject as of the request of Parksy as is now completely off topic. I really should have read my post before posting it and just to clarify re Market I was stood waiting to be served whilst some guy stood next to me blowing smoke every where I personally didnt bother too much but surely the smoker should have consideration for others .OK Parksy lock this thread now if you wish or put it in the layby

 

[Gagakev]

Why lock this thread or put it in the layby? I remember a while back when some one complained about a topic going "OFF" topic and the reply from the mod was that it is an open forum and it's human nature. (wish I could remember the thread).
I am finding the veiws of Ex smokers and non smokers very interesting reading whom seem to be the only ones responding to this thread.

By the way I'm one of those "smokers" and have deliberately kept stum until now.

Any way back on topic, I whole hardheartedly agree with the ban, we take our grandson away with us quite a lot and he has never and never will be subjected to smoking in our car, but as others have said will it get policed?

 

[Damian]

The topic will only be terminated if it strays off topic into a slanging match between smokers and non smokers, or personal attacks start being posted.
The topic is the ban on smoking in cars which have children under 17 in them (unless the driver is a smoker aged 17).
It is NOT about what happened in Pubs, Clubs, Workplaces, Markets or anywhere else.

 

[Parksy]

Why lock this thread or put it in the layby? I remember a while back when some one complained about a topic going "OFF" topic and the reply from the mod was that it is an open forum and it's human nature. (wish I could remember the thread).
I am finding the veiws of Ex smokers and non smokers very interesting reading whom seem to be the only ones responding to this thread......

I've been out and just noticed this so I'll explain.
This is an open forum and people can and do go off topic, but they don't normally start to describe people who don't share their viewpoint in such generalised and emotive terms.
Perhaps instead of trying to provide a reasonably good humoured and polite hint that we no longer tolerate veiled insults on the forum I ought to have written that if the little digs continue or turn into personal attacks I will intervene to put a stop to it?
I hope that I've clarified the situation in simpler and more direct terms.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

The topic will only be terminated if it strays off topic into a slanging match between smokers and non smokers, or personal attacks start being posted.
The topic is the ban on smoking in cars which have children under 17 in them (unless the driver is a smoker aged 17).
It is NOT about what happened in Pubs, Clubs, Workplaces, Markets or anywhere else.

Hi Damian, of course any decisions made on the forum are up to the moderators, but I must point out that there is no argument between smokers and non smokers as the only smoker who has posed is Kev and he is in favour of the ban,
the discussion seems to be between ex smokers who have differing views.
it is also relevent to mention the history of where the ban came from, and why it is part of a rolling assault on one section of society, wether one likes them or not.
we already don't do politics, understandable, despite 90% of our lives are ruled by it.
may be the time should come when all such topics are barred from the first post, and the forum can discuss the really important issues like nose weights and water pumps, as most non caravan topics go way off topic and tend to be controversial anyway.
to finish on topic. one could say I do not smoke or have kids in the car so it does not effect me, so why bother.
well because the next bit of wisdom someone thinks up just might concern you,
as for me I've done, it is my last comment. as for water pumps and nose weights,there are plenty of others who can advise, I have others things to worry about . like finishing that dam boat build !!!.

 

[Dustydog]

as for me I've done, it is my last comment. as for water pumps and nose weights,there are plenty of others who can advise, I have others things to worry about . like finishing that dam boat build !!!.

Sir Chunky

I hope those aren't your final words and you will still post with all the knowledge you have.
I do wonder if at times we all lose sight of reality and end up with a Dresden problem of[strike] over moderating[/strike] over bonbing .

 

[Parksy]

[/color]
I hope those aren't your final words and you will still post with all the knowledge you have.
I do wonder if at times we all lose sight of reality and end up with a Dresden problem of[strike] over moderating[/strike] over bonbing . [/quote]

It would seem that the oblique references to over moderating are aimed at my earlier attempts to put the brakes on comments made in the course of this discussion which could have possibly have led to old style slanging matches if past experience is anything to go by.
We've done politics on this forum in the past with disastrous results, and we won't be doing it again if I continue as a moderator..
I've sat here at my desk in times past for hours on end trying my best to keep things on an even keel when people had decided to hi-jack the message boards with political diatribes which had nothing whatsoever to do with the reason for the existence of this forum, which is to discuss various aspects of touring caravans, the ownership, use and repair of them.
On previous incarnations of this website there were no easy ways to do this.
No click of a mouse would make much difference, because neither Damian or myself had any access to the software which now helps to keep this forum safe, free from unwanted adverts or other malicious or inappropriate content and relatively smooth running and much easier to deal with from our point of view.
The forum is no longer as time consuming for moderators thanks to the current up to date moderator software that we have full and free access to.
Bearing this in mind it would be a very easy matter to simply decide that a thread is off topic and likely to lead to forum unrest, and to immediately edit it, lock it or remove it altogether without further comment or explanation.
Both Damian and myself resist the temptation to take this easy option, we see it on other caravan forums from time to time but we prefer to engage with forum members who often make valuable contributions with help and advice.
If what I thought of as a timely polite friendly cautionary word has upset people I'm very sorry, perhaps I should in future follow the example set on other caravan-related internet forums and use the anonymous click of my mouse instead?

 

[JonnyG]

hi parsky .Of course at times forum users will either think a forum is being under moderated or indeed over moderated that all comes down to each person perspective on any given subject of debate .... Fundamentally the fact is the moderating on here isn't too bad. but then that's only my opinion and i do avoid all the heated stuff.... :lol: :lol: :lol: ...carry on moderating now that's a good title for a film.....

 

[Gabsgrandad]

+ 1

 

[Parksy]

hi parsky .Of course at times forum users will either think a forum is being under moderated or indeed over moderated that all comes down to each person perspective on any given subject of debate .... Fundamentally the fact is the moderating on here isn't too bad. but then that's only my opinion and i do avoid all the heated stuff.... :lol: :lol: :lol: ...carry on moderating now that's a good title for a film.....

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks Jonny G, I know what a shy reticent soul you are :evil:
Now, where's Barbara Windsor.........

 

[colin-yorkshire]

as for me I've done, it is my last comment. as for water pumps and nose weights,there are plenty of others who can advise, I have others things to worry about . like finishing that dam boat build !!!.

Sir Chunky

I hope those aren't your final words and you will still post with all the knowledge you have.
I do wonder if at times we all lose sight of reality and end up with a Dresden problem of[strike] over moderating[/strike] over bonbing .

hi Dusty, not the final words, just a hell of a lot less of them in future, to be honest mate my interest in caravans has waned quite a lot since mine disappeared into the sunset, the bread and butter topics that used to be of interest no longer seem that important, and there are far more qualified members to sort them out without any input from me.

I tend to do a quick scan of the recent topics and if there is anything I can add, do so, although most seem to be none caravan issues like this one, often playing devil's advocate because some contributors, either have no idea what they are discussing or miss interpret what the issues are, it is nothing to do with the moderators they have a difficult enough job to do catching the spammers without me adding to it, on controversial subjects.

it is not only this forum I intend to cut, I have already resigned as a mod on one other, and a third one I use which has time logged in clock presently stands at 66 days 15hrs and 28 mins, that is far too much time for an old man to spend staring at a computer screen, there are far more important things one should be doing.

one could just stop posting and fade away as many do. but it's not my way, I have been a regular contributor for almost 12 years and the time is right to move on that's all. explain it properly so no one thinks as time goes by " I wonder what ever happend to so and so he has not posted for a long time.

I will probably pop in from time to time to see how thing are, so you may hear from me again this post is just to explain it is nobodies fault, and if I don't post again you all know why,

happy caravanning everyone, enjoy it while you can as sometime it will come to an end. it may be a long road but all long roads do finish at some point

cheers, colin aka Sir Chunky

 

[philspot1]

Coming very late to this topic, could I just say (as a non-smoker), that smoke, whether from a cigarette or a factory chimney, is like loud music. It spreads far beyond its producer, and annoys lots of people.
Thank you.

 

[Gagakev]

[

Sir Chunky


there are far more important things one should be doing.

cheers, colin aka Sir Chunky

Like building that Dam boat
Good luck with it Colin, hope you do keep popping in as your post are all down to earth and in laymans terms