Battery for car with Stop/Star

[Dustydog]

Well this has certainly opened up Pandora’s box for me!

The Kia Cee’d has stop start. According to what I read an AGM type is necessary. Not sure I fully understand but price wise the difference is huge.

Is it technically correct cars with Stop start will not function properly on lead acid ? Only AGM will do?
Any recommendations on what makes today will be as good as the oem which is now 8 years old?

 

[Anseo]

Well this has certainly opened up Pandora’s box for me!

The Kia Cee’d has stop start. According to what I read an AGM type is necessary. Not sure I fully understand but price wise the difference is huge.

Is it technically correct cars with Stop start will not function properly on lead acid ? Only AGM will do?
Any recommendations on what makes today will be as good as the oem which is now 8 years old?

There are a number of considerations DD, might be worth starting a new thread.

E.G.
"Is it technically correct cars with Stop start will not function properly on lead acid ? Only AGM will do?

This is not technically correct.

 

[Beardy]

Well this has certainly opened up Pandora’s box for me!

The Kia Cee’d has stop start. According to what I read an AGM type is necessary. Not sure I fully understand but price wise the difference is huge.

Is it technically correct cars with Stop start will not function properly on lead acid ? Only AGM will do?
Any recommendations on what makes today will be as good as the oem which is now 8 years old?

Stop start is obviously much harder on the battery than none stop start, hence the need for EFB or AGM. No doubt a standard battery would work but it may be subject to premature failure.

Stop start rarely worked on my car last year - it would after a long run in warmer weather but generally it didn't. I wasn't too worried as I don't particularly like it so often had it switched off anyway. In Jan this year I noticed that it was struggling to turn the engine over in freezing temps. It always started but took a few seconds. I fully charged the battery but it still struggled. Bought a new battery and the stop start began working almost immediately (takes 3 or 4 miles in really cold weather before it cuts in) and it starts from cold within one revolution again. I charged the old battery off the car and it's sat at 12.7v for over a month after being disconnected from the charger. My caravan battery has dropped to 12.4v over the same period. Strange things batteries.

For what it's worth I bought a Drivetec battery from GSF car parts. They are made by Yuasa for GSF, about two thirds the price but only have 3 years warranty instead of Yuasa's 4. It's too early for me to recommend them but I thought it was worth a punt.

One tip I was given years ago is to look at the weight of the batteries when comparing them. Cheaper batteries often weigh less than premium batteries as the lead plates in them are thinner making them prone to buckling earlier. In my case the Drivetec weighed the same as the equivalent Yuasa and was very similar to Varta and Bosch. The really cheap batteries weighed a couple of kg less.

 

[Dustydog]

There are a number of considerations DD, might be worth starting a new thread.

E.G.
"Is it technically correct cars with Stop start will not function properly on lead acid ? Only AGM will do?

This is not technically correct.

Thanks John
I agree. Perhaps one of our Mods could move the last few posts to a new thread
Battery for car with Start Stop

 

[otherclive]

Both our cars have SS but this discussion has opened up some things for me. Firstly some cars require the new SS battery to be “ registered” to the car. Also chargers have to be designed to meet the needs of both EFB and /or AGM batteries. Wonder if my venerable CTEK will still be usable if required. Think I might contact CTEK for advice.

What voltage does the start-stop battery need to be charged? ― 130.com.ua

The batteries used in vehicles equipped with a start/stop system differ in design and quality from conventional lead-acid batteries. This determines the features of their operation, in particular, charging. How to properly charge a battery of this type, which charger to choose, and what voltage...

130.com.ua

 

[RogerL]

Both our cars have SS but this discussion has opened up some things for me. Firstly some cars require the new SS battery to be “ registered” to the car. Also chargers have to be designed to meet the needs of both EFB and /or AGM batteries. Wonder if my venerable CTEK will still be usable if required. Think I might contact CTEK for advice.

What voltage does the start-stop battery need to be charged? ― 130.com.ua

The batteries used in vehicles equipped with a start/stop system differ in design and quality from conventional lead-acid batteries. This determines the features of their operation, in particular, charging. How to properly charge a battery of this type, which charger to choose, and what voltage...

130.com.ua

The advice from CTEK for my now elderly CTEK charger is to use the "winter" setting (snowflake) for AGM batteries - this charges at 14.8v instead of the more usual 14.4v but the desulphation and float cycles are the same.

Where cars need "recoding" it's usually sufficient to make a single digit change to the battery serial number but that supposes that a like-for-like replacement is used.

 

[otherclive]

The advice from CTEK for my now elderly CTEK charger is to use the "winter" setting (snowflake) for AGM batteries - this charges at 14.8v instead of the more usual 14.4v but the desulphation and float cycles are the same.

Where cars need "recoding" it's usually sufficient to make a single digit change to the battery serial number but that supposes that a like-for-like replacement is used.

Thank you saves me a call to CTEK.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks to Sam Vines for rerouting this thread. My Battery quest will continue during the week. Seems to me start stop is another excuse to load the prices.

 

[RogerL]

Thanks to Sam Vines for rerouting this thread. My Battery quest will continue during the week. Seems to me start stop is another excuse to load the prices.

Is the stop-start used on your Kia? If so and you're planning to keep it then you probably need to bite the bullet and get an AGM. I got mine from Tayna but had my trusted indy to install it - but if the installation was more conventional, under the bonnet, I'd have fitted it myself.

 

[Dustydog]

Is the stop-start used on your Kia? If so and you're planning to keep it then you probably need to bite the bullet and get an AGM. I got mine from Tayna but had my trusted indy to install it - but if the installation was more conventional, under the bonnet, I'd have fitted it myself.

Today it’s for the Kia, we will keep,the stop start.
I expect the day will come when the Touareg one packs up. Not cheap any of them😥😥

 

[cooky1]

My car has stop/start and this is one of the AGM batteries on Eurocarparts that would be a replacement.

Varta 020 Car Battery - 3 Year Guarantee​

The VARTA® Silver Dynamic AGM stands for unparalleled performance: with 3 times the cycle life of conventional batteries, the VARTA Silver Dynamic AGM is the perfect choice for vehicles with the highest energy demands. This can be due to heavier usage, cold winters, hot summers or multiple accessories and equipment. That is why you´ll find a VARTA Silver Dynamic AGM in 80% of newly manufactured cars with start-stop technology powered by AGM batteries.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Well this has certainly opened up Pandora’s box for me!

The Kia Cee’d has stop start. According to what I read an AGM type is necessary. Not sure I fully understand but price wise the difference is huge.

Is it technically correct cars with Stop start will not function properly on lead acid ? Only AGM will do?
Any recommendations on what makes today will be as good as the oem which is now 8 years old?

There must be several stop start systems used across all manufactures and models, so I strongly suspect the suggestion you can only use AGM may not be universally true.

I would follow the specific advice for the model of car you have. Because of the cost differences, consider the probability the manufacturer would only use the cheapest possible type of battery they could get away with.

If they use an expensive AGM, it almost certainly means its the only type of battery that will work satisfactorily.

However with massive strides in battery developments, if a new battery technology becomes commercially available it may be possible to replace an agm with a new type, but you should follow the manufacturers advice in such matters.

 

[otherclive]

There must be several stop start systems used across all manufactures and models, so I strongly suspect the suggestion you can only use AGM may not be universally true.

I would follow the specific advice for the model of car you have. Because of the cost differences, consider the probability the manufacturer would only use the cheapest possible type of battery they could get away with.

If they use an expensive AGM, it almost certainly means its the only type of battery that will work satisfactorily.

However with massive strides in battery developments, if a new battery technology becomes commercially available it may be possible to replace an agm with a new type, but you should follow the manufacturers advice in such matters.

Some systems use EFB batteries as opposed to AGM, but what seems consistent is that standard Lead Acid are not suited for the duty.

 

[RogerL]

Today it’s for the Kia, we will keep,the stop start.
I expect the day will come when the Touareg one packs up. Not cheap any of them😥😥

My view is that as the battery is inside the passenger compartment of the Touareg, an AGM is necessary to avoid further issues in the event of a roll-over, admittedly not a common occurrence.

 

[Buckman]

My car has stop/start and this is one of the AGM batteries on Eurocarparts that would be a replacement.

Varta 020 Car Battery - 3 Year Guarantee​

The VARTA® Silver Dynamic AGM stands for unparalleled performance: with 3 times the cycle life of conventional batteries, the VARTA Silver Dynamic AGM is the perfect choice for vehicles with the highest energy demands. This can be due to heavier usage, cold winters, hot summers or multiple accessories and equipment. That is why you´ll find a VARTA Silver Dynamic AGM in 80% of newly manufactured cars with start-stop technology powered by AGM batteries.

What is puzzling is the different warranties offered for the same battery, Some sites have it at 3 years, others at 4 or even 5 years.

Many people with S S overlook that it could be the aux AGM battery dragging down the main battery and replace the wrong battery? Something I would like to avoid.

 

[RogerL]

What is puzzling is the different warranties offered for the same battery, Some sites have it at 3 years, others at 4 or even 5 years.

Many people with S S overlook that it could be the aux AGM battery dragging down the main battery and replace the wrong battery? Something I would like to avoid.

The variation in warranty length is just natural competition among battery retailers with the shorter warranty being the manufacturers' offering - the battery retailers are probably relying on getting few batteries returned to them towards the end of the long warranty period.

I believe there are relatively few (pure IC) models that use more than one battery - your Jeep is unusual in that respect. It's a pity there isn't a good DIY diagnostic tool for US-built Jeeps because the information you need is probably all there stored in the electronics.

 

[Buckman]

The variation in warranty length is just natural competition among battery retailers with the shorter warranty being the manufacturers' offering - the battery retailers are probably relying on getting few batteries returned to them towards the end of the long warranty period.

I believe there are relatively few (pure IC) models that use more than one battery - your Jeep is unusual in that respect. It's a pity there isn't a good DIY diagnostic tool for US-built Jeeps because the information you need is probably all there stored in the electronics.

I do have a fairly good DIY diagnostic tool or scanner which I used on a previous Jeep, but have never used it on the current Jeep so thanks for the remnder.

 

[ProfJohnL]

What is puzzling is the different warranties offered for the same battery, Some sites have it at 3 years, others at 4 or even 5 years.
...

As has been explained on several occasions, manufacturers are not actually required to offer a warranty unless they sell them direct to the end user and even then might just use the CRA arrangements.

It's also important to understand the manufacturer might offer a different warranty policy to different customers, especially if the have a badge engineering arrangement with them. But its more common the manufacturer will have just one policy and its the retailing business that might have their own retail warranty policy. Consequently you might find the same product at differnt retailers with different retailer warranty policies.

 

[Buckman]

To access and remove the battery in the Jeep is difficult because of it being under the seat. You can move the seat forward to access the negative terminal, but then it is very difficult to access the positive terminal which is towards the front of the car and cannot be access from the front of the seat as it is in a forward position.

Not sure if this is possible, but I was thinking of moving the seat backwards, loosing the positive terminal. It will still be tight, but loose and unlikely to arc. As I still have power to the seat I can then move it forwards to access the negative terminal and then remove the positive terminal.

However I am wondering if the cable will be "live" due to the aux battery being in place and still connected? However probably easier to remove the aux battery first and then the large 12v battery?

It is highly unlikely I will be doing the above due to weight of battery, but need to be informed so that if I see technician doing something they should not be doing, I can correct them.

Never thought that changing a S S 12v AGM battery will be so complicated! LOL!

 

[Sam Vimes]

Perhaps it would be easier to keep the battery and change the car 😉😉😉

 

[otherclive]

To access and remove the battery in the Jeep is difficult because of it being under the seat. You can move the seat forward to access the negative terminal, but then it is very difficult to access the positive terminal which is towards the front of the car and cannot be access from the front of the seat as it is in a forward position.

Not sure if this is possible, but I was thinking of moving the seat backwards, loosing the positive terminal. It will still be tight, but loose and unlikely to arc. As I still have power to the seat I can then move it forwards to access the negative terminal and then remove the positive terminal.

However I am wondering if the cable will be "live" due to the aux battery being in place and still connected? However probably easier to remove the aux battery first and then the large 12v battery?

It is highly unlikely I will be doing the above due to weight of battery, but need to be informed so that if I see technician doing something they should not be doing, I can correct them.

Never thought that changing a S S 12v AGM battery will be so complicated! LOL!

My 1995 Pajero had two thumping great batteries but both were in the engine compartment. However it did not have the“Benefit “ of stop-start. Life seemed simpler then. 🇳🤔

Your issues have started to get me thinking what to fit to our little Rio which has S-S although a quite small battery now 7 years old. Gone are the days when you could just roll up at some tyres and battery outlet and smack in a new battery. On my last Subaru the new Yuasa stated to be a replacement to its original was larger and the protective cover would not fit over it.

 

[Buckman]

I phoned Jeep to get a quote to change the main battery and it was £380. I asked for a quote for the aux battery to be changed. For both batteries to be changed they want £825! I am still reeling!

 

[Beardy]

I phoned Jeep to get a quote to change the main battery and it was £380. I asked for a quote for the aux battery to be changed. For both batteries to be changed they want £825! I am still reeling!

What's the model, year and engine size? Are you able physically able and knowledgeable enough to change the batteries yourself?

 

[Buckman]

What's the model, year and engine size? Are you able physically able and knowledgeable enough to change the batteries yourself?

2018 Grand Cherokee 3.0l. I can changed the battery in the Corolla no problem, but it difficult to access the Jeep's battery as it si under the driver's seat.

 

[Beardy]

2018 Grand Cherokee 3.0l. I can changed the battery in the Corolla no problem, but it difficult to access the Jeep's battery as it si under the driver's seat.

Doesn’t look easy but it looks doable.

View: https://youtu.be/q6nQaXiZ-bo?si=0xQ6JA6u5gxIt1ue


Just had a look online and you should be able to pick up suitable batteries for £250. Try GSF car parts and enter your reg. number - I have no affiliation with them it's just that they were the cheapest when I bought my battery last month.

What doesn't make sense is that they want more to fit the auxiliary battery than the main one, is that buried in an even less accessible place?