BODY SHOCKS?

[thursdays child]

Fellow tourers! "HIMSELF"and I have been talking about the problems that some people are having with the integrity of their caravan bodies.It is appalling that vans are becoming more and more luxurious and not "screwed together" properly.We have seen more and more folks racing along potholed highways and bouncing along minor roads.Caravans today spend more time touring and being tugged long by our big 4x4.The "tugs" have been specially developed for todays needs.Why has the caravan industry not kept pace?The price of these new all singing all dancing vans is not a reflection of the build qua;ity.Is it time we stopped being seduced by interiors and demanded something durable?I am not saying people drive worse than in the past just differently!!!!!

Thursdays Child

 

[Lutz]

I can't confirm your experience. We bought our previous caravan in 1992 and it was already 8 years old when we took it to Iceland where we covered well over 500 miles on unsurfaced gravel roads. Although the caravan took enough shaking to pull several door hinges out of their anchorages, it was structurally still absolutely solid when we sold it a few months ago.

 

[otherclive]

Was it a German made van? Built like the proverbial...!! British ones may only be catching up now. Have just come back from the Rhine Markets and saw quite a number of old but still extremley good vans.

Other Clive

 

[Jackie_374224453]

Mmmmm! Our Coachman has some serious stress issues which in our humble opinion is due to thinner body panels/poor construction. So we have to agree with you! Having great trouble getting Coachman to agree to repair under warranty - they say its due to us driving in a pot-hole or kerbing it - but its not had a hard life at all - it has been mollycoddled!

Jackie

 

[ProfJohnL]

This topic may be opening up a debate about durability of caravans.

There are plenty of reports from motoring organisations and councils about the state of our roads and there is is a consensus that roads are not being repaired quickly or adequately enough, so the natural consequence will be more and larger pot holes. - not to mention speed humps - sorry - traffic calming devises

Caravan manufactures will ignore this general deterioration of our road stock at their peril. If the roads are becoming poorer then that will increasingly become the norm, and any manufacture that fails to make a caravan capable of being towed safely and sustainable on the countries normal roads will be laying them selves open to claims of their products not being fit for purpose.

Fundamentally if a caravan cannot survive being towed on UK roads then how can it be of merchantable quality?

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all

yes john I see what you are getting at but think on this years ago when we started caravannng there were no motorways just A and B roads that were can we say not renowned for being flat and straight with in some cases very poor road surfaces plus the single track roads with passing places to tow along.

however the vans survived fine I think this is more to do with how vans are put together and the sizes they are made in 30 years ago a 16ft sprite was a big un most were about 11/12ft ie 4mtrs so less body flexing under tow also all B&B chasis had shocks as standard and size for size were a bit more robust in the weight dept ie our 12ft colchester weighed 23cwt or about 1170kg but the new bailey 380 has a MIRO of 820kg yet has full cooker hot water fridge ect so the true body weight must be nearer 500kg or roughly half the weight.of the colchester.

I believe this is the main reason modern vans are less durable not just the poor road surfaces

colin

 

[Lutz]

If an increase in size is the reason for deterioration in durability, then the caravan manufacturers simply didn't do their homework properly. One cannot just scale up an existing design to make a larger caravan without sparing a thought for what else can have changed in the process (bigger forces acting through the structure, for example).

 

[xtrailman]

jackie

And thats before the external screws have started to rust, coachman dont use stainless steel.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

ah yes lutz you do have a point size is not everything (well allmost) however the colchester had I believe a ash frame "probably where the weight came from" that was extensivly used in the construction of boats and wooden framed cars, I am sure this helped ridgidity in the old vans, new ones seem to be made of an "Aluminum/GRP plastic coated ply wood and polystyrene sandwhich" with no frame as such at all.

 

[thursdays child]

Hi All,I have observed that when a new caravan is reviewed there is a great deal of attention given to the interior design and fittings. This is helpful but in the long run it would be better to have statistic on durability. It is quite an easy affair to find out any adverse reports on unreliable used cars but not for used caravans.I have read on this site that after being dissatisfied with their vans people have wisely traded them in, but what about the next buyer of this "lemon"? Is it time for us to NAME and SHAME these models?Perhaps we need a "TOP TOURER" Jeremy Clarkson!!!!For goodness sake this is a multi million pound hobby these days. I appreciate the views on the roads of old but the vehicles that were used were not so capable of soaking up the bumps as our 4x4 of today. In defence of us drivers a lot of techniques used to make these vehicles attractive as tow cars also leads us into a false feeling of being able to tow over uneven surfaces without adverse effects.It is a pity that the caravan, that in most cases is as big an investment,cannot keep pace with the technology applied to the cars.If a car became unusable after a couple of years and little use it would be headline news and it would quickly become unsellable.I too am beguiled by beautiful upholstery and fittings.I confess I know little about how caravans are constructed and I do not know where to find out about sorting the good from the bad.I suppose we assume that people who share our interest in touring are all "fair and square"

As you can tell I feel very strongly about this subject and not due to any unpleasant experience personally.NOT YET!!!Its the families who have been so badly let down and can least afford it that makes me so cross.I shall go and have a quite cuppa and calm down now!!

Thursdays Child

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Colin,

I think you make some valid points, especially the use of shock absorbers which definitely do reduce the inherent amount of body damage due to road surface imperfections.

I also belive that during the 1960's and 1970's the general condition of our roads did improve, and caravan manufactures may have found that the older designs may have been 'over engineered' for the prevailing conditions. This led to lighter weight and bigger constructions. The Alko style chassis was in general found to be man enough and as a consequence were adopted.

But what has subsequently happened is that the road surfaces have deteriorated. A pot hole is a far more severe shock than the undulations of 1950's roads.

Plus the fact that we now have far more bits and pieces inside a caravan than compared to the 1960's, and all this adds weight (or more importantly mass) and this all has an effect on the strength of the body to either pass impacts through the body or to absorb them within the structure.

However the inescapable fact is that the manufacturers must make products that can cope adequately with the current conditions, if that means looking at older designs and finding their strengths and weaknesses then so be it.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Hi Colin,

I think you make some valid points, especially the use of shock absorbers which definitely do reduce the inherent amount of body damage due to road surface imperfections.

I also belive that during the 1960's and 1970's the general condition of our roads did improve, and caravan manufactures may have found that the older designs may have been 'over engineered' for the prevailing conditions. This led to lighter weight and bigger constructions. The Alko style chassis was in general found to be man enough and as a consequence were adopted.

But what has subsequently happened is that the road surfaces have deteriorated. A pot hole is a far more severe shock than the undulations of 1950's roads.

Plus the fact that we now have far more bits and pieces inside a caravan than compared to the 1960's, and all this adds weight (or more importantly mass) and this all has an effect on the strength of the body to either pass impacts through the body or to absorb them within the structure.

However the inescapable fact is that the manufacturers must make products that can cope adequately with the current conditions, if that means looking at older designs and finding their strengths and weaknesses then so be it.

agreed 100%

 

[otherclive]

It's a recognised fact that cars used in UK suffer more suspension, wheel and tyre wear than equivalents in Europe. Some years ago Citroen had a spate of steering problems with the AX, and after investigation it was shown that UK cars suffered more wear due to mini islands requiring tight lock and then being driven over. Since then the state of road speed control devizes and the crap surface can only have made the problem worse. Years ago cars were tested on Belgian pave, perhaps Britash A roads area more challenging source.

 

[Lutz]

It would appear, however, that caravans are tested neither on Belgian pav

 

[Jackie_374224453]

The message relayed to us from dealer/manufacturer about the damage to our caravan was basically..'if you hit a pot-hole and damaged your alloy wheel, you would claim from the council' - this is quite different from hitting a pot-hole and you car then sufffering massive damage costing thousands of pounds!!..in thos circumstances I am sure you woulod want a car that could travel British roads without falling to bits! - Even though our caravan has not travelled upon or over anything that should have caused the damage I think manufacturers are steering us caravanners towards insurance claims, rather than sorting out the wider issue of fitness for purpose - that is - will our touring caravan 'tour' on British roads - looks like that's a 'no' then!!!

 

[vernon]

Caravan chassis in the '60's were much stronger, quite a few ended up as car trailers/transporters, you couldn't do that with an Alko one today.

 

[otherclive]

Our Bailey (2005) had a warranty repair to the door between the lounge and bedroom. It is a sliding panel door that is suspended from a track screwed to the van ceiling. Within weeks the repair had failed again. So I took it all apart and used more and different screws plus I mounted a small wheel on the bottom so that when the van hits road bumps/potholes the door assembly is suported and does not have its whole weight just hanging from the van ceiling. You would be suprised what a bashing the van's nearside wheel gets juust by normal towing due to its proximity to the poor road side surfaces.

Picking up Lutz's point I understand that GM test thier cars extensively in UK for the very reason that if yjet can gget ride and handling okay they will be okay in most of Europe. But durabilty of teh suspension components will still probably be less in UK due to the road engineering measures and poor condition of the surface. In our area the council took pride in 2008 in meeting its target for road surfacing repairs but in many areas it was an easy hit as they resurfaced several minor roads that don't take much traffic as they can achieve more miles of surface with less disruption and less cost per mile. So much for targets!

Cheers

Other Clive

 

[Sedo]

I'm sure when VW/Audi took over Bentley they had a number of complaints off workers at the Bentley plant in Crewe who could have VW/Audi cars through a works scheme, about suspension and steering issues.

I believe in the end a team came over to investigate the issues with the cars and due to the road situation in Britain Vw/Audi modified their suspensions.

Remember your extortionate road taxes don't go to road maintenance and repairs.

As for caravans, would an older construction method survive todays roads any better than a modern one?

I grew up through the50's,60's and 70's and I don't think the roads have ever been as bad as they are today.

Whether it's volume of heavy traffice lack of investment or what.

Our first van was a '71 Swift Danette, I wouldn't personally say it felt as solid as our present Pegasus, the same as I wouldn't like to swap back to a 70's car.

Tomo

 

[Garfield]

from my furthest memory of roads of 30-40 yrs ago, here in n.yorks they are in far better condition than they were back then. I have repaired accident damage to a 2001 Lunar that involved removing the lower rear panel and I was amazed how such a flimsy construction holds together compared to the structure of older caravans that I have seen. Remember that manufacturers take advantage of todays "disposable" attitude amongst many of us, it is simply not in their interest to build longevity into a caravan, cars are the same, rotting bodywork has been replaced by complex electronics that are hideously expensive to replace, so a perfectly good car gets scrapped, keeping up the demand for new ones.

 

[Lutz]

In fairness, the engineers back then did not have the tools to work out where load peaks in complex sheet metal structures like car bodies occur and tended to overengineer thicknesses. As a result, these bodies carried a lot of deadweight which was not conducive to fuel consumption. To put things into perspective, just compare the consumption and power-to-weight ratios of cars of the 50's with those of today.

 

[Sedo]

I agree modern technology has helped a lot in design and structure.

I also think a lot of the old cars especially British ones were built with a couldn't care less attitude, there's a whiff of this in the caravan industry of today.

The early German cars were carved from granite and had an enviable reputation until the Japanese got their act together.

A lot of things were over engineered as Lutz rightly states but I'll still go for the modern car.

The caravans I hope will get there soon.

Garfield try the roads round Stoke-on-Trent pot holed isn't the word, in fact you have to be good a slalem driving to survive.