Bought A New Van Now in a state of Panic!!!.

[brian_c]

Hello. Yes we have just bought a new Bailey Ranger GT60 2 berth van. 2010 model but still new and all wrapped up inside.
Anyway we have just returned from our first outing a lovely week at Ferry Meadows CC Site.
My concern came to light (quite literally) when I noticed a faint glow between the sidewall and roof within the wardrobe situated to the rear offside of the van.
Ten minutes later with my wife shining the torch along the roof line we were able to determine the actual point where the light was getting through. The van has an alluminium joint strip running along the roof at this point and I am guessing that what we are seeing is the daylight filtering through the sealant.
Anyway we dont appear to have any water getting in and we did have quite a bit of rain but I'm convinced that what I am seeing can not be right.
Well by coincidence before we rang the supplier they rang us to say that the caravan carpets that had been missing when we collected the van had now turned up and the were making arrangments to deliver them to us. So apparantly their local sales manager is coming to us in a day or so. I obviously told them of my concerns and they said that he would have a look when he arrived to assess the problem. I'm pleased about that because the dealers is about 45 miles from home and It will at least save me a trip if the situation is quite normal.
I have had a good look using my steps and I presume if work has to be done the whole alloy strip will have to be removed and re-sealed.
I was wondering if anyone has any views with regards to if this is dealer type work or return to factory (Bailey At Bristol)
I know I am half cocked in my thinking before the dealer has had a chance to comment but I would have thought the alloy trim would have contained / covered the roof / wall boards by at least a few millimetres and not relied on a thickness of sealent to make up the gap.
My previous 8 year old baily never gave me a moments concern, I'm now in a panic about a new one.
I've got visions of losing it for 6 months whilst rangles go on who will sort it.

best wishes to all.
Brian

 

[paulthomas]

Really sorry not to be able to help Brian but you have my sympathy as that,on the face of it,sounds serious.Some of the responses to my posting "Rogue caravan-redress"in this section may help you if it does turn out to be a major fault.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

Without seeing the problem it is very difficult to offer copper bottomed advice. Howvever based on your description, it seems the wall and roof are not properly joined, and that is a serious manufacturing fault.

As you have found the fault so early on, there can be little doubt that it is a fault that was present at the time of sale, and if that is the case then the seller is entirely responsible under the Sale of Goods Act.

Look up Sale of Goods act on the internet, and gauge your own opnion on the circumsances, but I think you have a pretty good case to formally reject the caravan as having a manufacturing fault that was present at the time of sale rendering the product.

It is likley the dealer will suggest it can be repaired, but here you may need to get a second professional opinion about likely hood that a repair being a satisfactory solution, and that it will be indistinguishable from a caravan that has not had the problem.

If there is any doubt about either of those points do not accept a repair go for a replacement or full refund, as described in the consumer direct website.

If you are unsure about your position the it would be wise to seek professional legal advice.

 

[brian_c]

Thanky you for replying to my post. I am certainly taking your advice on board. The frustrating thing for us is that we really like the van but more to the point because Baileys no longer make this class of van we will be unlikly to get a replacement. Our car restricts the weight of van we can tow hence the 2 berth Ranger was perfect. Still with hindsight the sensible thing would have been to move up from the Focus to perhaps the Mondeo or equivelent, then not have restricted our choice when we bought the van.
"The dangers of visiting the showroom just for a look around"
Well the guy from the dealers will be visiting tomorrow and I am aware that he will have one eye on the company intrests. they have been very good with us all through the buying process but problems usually bring out their real good or bad points.
I'm going to have a look around for where I can get a professional second opinion.
I'm baffled as to how a refund would work bearing in mind the valuation of our part exchange etc. Not to mention the brand new Awning, Motor Mover Fittment, Jack Brackets And Alko secure Wheel lock we have bought meanwhile. I bet if we did have to change vans the new one wouldn't fit the Alko number 22. Although I hope the Awning company may help us out if we had to swap, none of it has been out of the bag yet.
I must Be Honest I am hoping for a resolution where I feel secure with a repair that brings the van back to what it should be.
Again thanks for your valued comments.
You Know I once many years ago bought for £260 A "Sprite 400" We painted it with a tin of Dulux Magnolia Paint. fitted a small cooker from a railway utility vehicle (Which doubled as a superb if not very safe room heater) And took to the open roads with it following our Talbot Solaro.
Six years and two cars later we finally sold it for two hundred pounds, with not the slightest worry or concern. Mind you my ignorance of all thing sensible like correct loading, nose weight, carbon monoxide, etc. probably added to our state of bliss. ( not sure about the tyres I don't think I ever checked them!!)
Best Regards Brian

regards Brian

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

With regards to a full refund, where a part exchange is concerned, whilst it may have seemed to be one transaction, in fact you have conducted two sequential trades. The first is the dealer buying your old caravan from you, and then as a legally separate transaction you buy the new caravan.

You have paid the full agreed price, and in the event of a refund you would be entitled to that sum.

Where you may have some difficulty is with any of the extras. Their part in the sale will depend on what deal you made for them. This is where a professional who can view all the documentation would be able to offer a clearer opinion.

 

[catherine2]

Hi Brian
Don't panic!
We also have a 2010 Ranger gt60 2 berth van and encountered exactly what you describe, last year, when we got our van in March 2010. The light is in exactly the same place and like you we had no water coming through and there was no obvious sign of a problem from outside. I emailed our dealer and took the van in. They had a good look and said it looked as though it was where there was no insulation at the edge. This is what I had wondered as the glow was not like daylight but more like looking through plastic. We've had no problems since when we've been away apart from what is obviously a bit of condensation in the wardrobe on one or two occasions - not raining which is how we know.
I would recommend you take your van in anyway, just to reassure yourselves - I followed up my visit with an email just so I have got an 'audit trail'. The dealer also did a damp test and there was none but as he says he has made a note and at its service will make particular care to check this area
As a matter of interest, have you also got a hole in the roof of the wardrobe where some lighting wires come down? We have a circular hole and find we get a bit of condensation coming from here - again, I think it is because warm air gets into the tracking for the wire in the van roof, where there would not be so much insulation.

 

[brian_c]

Hello Catherine thank you for your reply. Well you have described our van to a Tee. Yes we have the same cable hole that you mention.
Obviously we have only had the van a few weeks with only the one outing so have not experienced the condensation problem. I have got the chap from the supplier coming tomorrow and he has already said to me that they have seen this in other vans with it not being a problem. So your reply has made me feel a little better.
Due to other advice from other posts I have got the guy who will service the van to come and give me an opinion he is an experienced caravan engineer and has carried out a good deal of body panel and damp remedial work. The thinking being that he would be an unbiased source of info. so he is coming over early next week.
Anyway You have made me a bit better in my head. And like I mentioned in an earlier post the suppliers have not had the chance to even see what is causing me concern. If they convince me that all is well and I really hope they do then I will insist on some kind of a written statement to reinforce the guarantee that we already have. How I read the guarrantee provided we maintain proper servicing the exterior body shell is covered for 6 years so if I have a record of these present concerns future problems in that area should be covered.

thanks again for your reply

best regards Brian

 

[brian_c]

Prof John L.
Thank you for your valued reply. I read it through a couple of times and the penny dropped although there were two individual transactions, the final purchase price is what becomes the bottom line for a refund.
The other items I have mentioned like the mover and Kojak brackets i funded via other sources so would have to remove them myself if the worst came to the worst as they say.
I have a bit of hope from another post where someone has the identical situation and they have been reasured that all is well. I hope that my dealer can give me the same reassurance. Thank you again for your post.
Regards Brian

 

[Surfer]

Prof John L.
Thank you for your valued reply. I read it through a couple of times and the penny dropped although there were two individual transactions, the final purchase price is what becomes the bottom line for a refund.
The other items I have mentioned like the mover and Kojak brackets i funded via other sources so would have to remove them myself if the worst came to the worst as they say.
I have a bit of hope from another post where someone has the identical situation and they have been reasured that all is well. I hope that my dealer can give me the same reassurance. Thank you again for your post.
Regards Brian

Thye should be removing the items as they fitted them. This would fall under compensation shoudl it develop that far. SOGA basically puts you back in the same situation as if you had never order a caravan and this includes anything associated with the caravan. However it is pursued as two seperate claims.

 

[catherine2]

Hi Brian
As you say in your last posting, we've got 6 years guarantee on our vans. Our dealer, who we have used for a number of years and trust to be very honest also pointed this out, although he said he doesn't think we have to worry.
Do let me know the outcome of your reports.
Re the condensation - it is not really a problem but more a matter of inevitability. We store our van in a semi closed in barn, with the back facing north and rather dark. It gets very cold in the washroom and no sun. When we first use the van in early spring or if the weathers cold in the summer and we put the heating on, the wardrobe, being in the back corner of the van, does sometimes get a little bit damp right at the top. However, within a day or so its all dry so nothing to worry about.
We're very pleased with our van and the one or two minor problems were sorted out by the dealer very easily. Although I panic, just like a lot of other people when they've spent a lot of hard earned money, most problems are resolvable and most without too much trouble. Don't forget, people who post on this forum with nightmare stories do so just because they do have nightmare stories to tell. Their stories are not a reflection of what the majority of problems turn out to be - minor niggles.
Kind regards
Catherine

 

[picasso02]

No need to worry Brian mine is the same - did thorough examination with the dealer and the light comes through the plastic
rear panel - this will disappear when the weather gets warmer and the wood expands the slit will disappear completely
as the two pieces of wood meet each other. - All vans of this type are built in this way its just that in the Ranger GT60
case the two inner panels in the wardrobe at the top do not quite meet when cold but when constructed in a warm factory
it meets exactly. the wardrobe wall contracts a couple of mm in the cold weather - I didnt believe the dealer when he told me - but he was right sure enough on our summer hols there was no gap.
Another funny thing you will find with your van is that the A frame does not seem to sit central to the body of the front of
the van - it does - it just appears that way. Very pleased with my van even with these "funnies" its a sound van.

 

[Royston]

Hi Picasso , i am a bit puzzled by your dealer explanation of the gap between the wood which expands when it gets warmer, surely wood shrinks when warm and expands when when it gets damp.
I bought a Ranger brand new it failed its damp test with its second year service, had to have a complete new rear panel, fitted , I know you get 6 year warrenty, but i lost 3 months of my touring through this.
I traded the van in soon after, was told by the dealer this year that the same van had to have a complete new front panel fitted.
Royston

 

[picasso02]

Well when i Say wood its the board inside the van which probably doesnt contain much natural wood as they are coated with plastic vinyl on one side glue/insulation and aluminium on the other - but somehow it expands with the warmer temperature to close the gap it has been damp tested on last service but dry as a bone. Most vans are built at the rear with just the end panels of board and plastic? end panels just put over the rear with nothing in between so if there is any sort of a gap in the joint of the boards you will get light through the plastic panel. When we say theres a hole in fact its just where two boards join and you get sight of the plastic
end panel through it. If it was a serious problem believe you/me I would be really concerned..

 

[catherine2]

Hi Picasso
The gap did not disappear in our van in the summer but it's still been dry during rain. It's definitely not sealant covering a gap in the bodyshell as the sealant does not go over this area. I have looked elsewhere in the van and the glow is the same as other areas which are just plastic.
These worries are the sort of thing my partner says I love to look for - I'm not happy unless I have one! However, I think I will have to find something else now as even I'm convinced all is OK!

 

[Dustydog]

Surely Kelly Watts at Bailey could say something here PLEASE

 

[brian_c]

Hi Picasso
The gap did not disappear in our van in the summer but it's still been dry during rain. It's definitely not sealant covering a gap in the bodyshell as the sealant does not go over this area. I have looked elsewhere in the van and the glow is the same as other areas which are just plastic.
These worries are the sort of thing my partner says I love to look for - I'm not happy unless I have one! However, I think I will have to find something else now as even I'm convinced all is OK!

Hi Catherine An Update!!!!
Well I feel a bit of a fool really.
When I was looking to try and pin point the area of the van where the glow was coming from using a strong torch beam I was obviously seeing greater intensity but mainly from the beam overspill.
The guy from the suppliers has been today and pointed out the exact area on the outside of the van in relationship to the full area of glow that we are seeing and that whole area is under and within where the Plastic / Fibreglass rear panel fits.
As you know the panel raises vertically up the rear of the van then moulds round and quite a few inches along the roof what I thought was sealent is actually light being filtered through the plastic panel as you said.
The chap explained that rigid insulation is placed between the end external panel and the internal wall but along awkward curved areas he believes they use more flexible material similar to rockwool. He believes that the area we are seeing is probably where the insulation is a little thin or not quite in place.
He is totally convinced that we have nothing to worry about. He reinforced the fact that we have the 6 year warranty and said that he would record our concerns.
In conclusion I am 99.9% sure that we will be ok I suppose that you have to put your trust in them at some stage. The fact that the supplier sent someone to look within days of me contacting them has added to my confidence.
I will obviously keep my eye on the whole of the van for any water ingress and that area in particular.
Best regards Brian.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

I am very glad to read that the issue you thought you had has been adequately explained. The dealer deserves to be recognised for the the way they have responded, so do make sure you thank them.

This demonstrates one of the major impediments of forums like this in so far we may be able to offer good advice, but that advice is only good if problem actually exists! and without seeing the issue first hand, we are naturally compromised.

Let me assure you, that you are no fool, the fool is the one who never looks and never asks questions.

I certainly hope the outcome is satisfactory for you. Equally I hope that some of the information we have given you regarding consumer rights will empower you in the future.

Happy caravanning

 

[Surfer]

Either way the gap should not be there and I would pursue it further. It is all very well stating 6 year warranty but it is the hassle associated with not having the caravan while repairs are being done.

 

[catherine2]

Hi Brian
I'm really pleased about the response you received - speedy and reassuring without trying to fob you off. The dealer really has nothing to gain by not examining the issue fully - in this case he could have done a lot of work under warantee and made himself some money if he had been unscrupulous.I imagine there are actually lots of similar small breaks in the insulation in all our vans - it's just in this case you can see one of them, due to the placement of the internal wall boards.
Fret no more and enjoy your van!
Catherine

 

[brian_c]

Hello Brian,

I am very glad to read that the issue you thought you had has been adequately explained. The dealer deserves to be recognised for the the way they have responded, so do make sure you thank them.

This demonstrates one of the major impediments of forums like this in so far we may be able to offer good advice, but that advice is only good if problem actually exists! and without seeing the issue first hand, we are naturally compromised.

Let me assure you, that you are no fool, the fool is the one who never looks and never asks questions.

I certainly hope the outcome is satisfactory for you. Equally I hope that some of the information we have given you regarding consumer rights will empower you in the future.

Happy caravanning

Prof John. Thank you again for your valued comments. I must admit to having no Idea of how to take this kind of problem forwards, had my concerns been justified then I would have used your and other advice gained on this forum as my starting point for getting to a resolution. The company who supplied the caravan are quite a large concern based at Nottingham and at Huddersfield. The branch I used were at Huddersfield. I can only speak highly of them in the way they have responded to my concerns. The sales lady who sorted us out was Called Emma and if I am fortunate enough to be in a position to trade up to another van in the future I will make sure I deal with her.
I'm not Sure if I am allowed to mention their name but minor detective work involving GOOGLE will I am sure throw it up!!!
I have never involved myself in forums before but can now understand the benifits of taking part. I have received good advice and even reassurance from two others who not only have the same model of van but exactly the same cause for initial concern.

Very best regards to all and again thank you for your valued support.
Brian