Bring back Hanging

[Dustydog]

Lutz

Unfortunately we do not live in a utopian society as illustrated in history since time immemorial.

Those who do wrong, and are proven beyond absolute doubt that they did wrong, should sufer the penalty commensurate with that wrongdoing. And yes I will happily pull the lever if it helps eradicate the hyenous crimes committed against the honest person.

Cheeers

Alan

 

[Lutz]

To me, those that pull the lever are just as guilty of murder.

 

[Dustydog]

Lutz

Everyone to their own opinion. However in the scenario under discussion I have to say that legitimate execution is not quite the same as murder, technically speaking that is.

If any member of my family was murdered I would certainly have no hesitation in seeing the miscreant swing; again if asked I would pull the lever.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Gumbo]

I like the one about Death Row where we keep people if we are not sure they are Guilty, weird society you want to live in.

I would agree 100% sure execute them. We don't want to rehabilitate them we want Revenge. The Goverment seemed quite happy to let Saddam hang so it's not a moral issue for our MPs unless we are starting to have degrees of crime. Kill 1 or 2 and it's OK kill thousands and we hang you. mmmmmmmmmm

 

[emmerson2]

My sister was killed, four years ago this weekend, by an incompetent doctor, who was found guilty of manslaughter. His "punishment" was a derisory 15 months suspended. The sentence was lenient, said the judge "because his life had been ruined" Didn't do much for my sister's life either. He is now free to carry on living. We have to carry our burden for life.

Without doubt, bring back corporal punishment, and if that doesn't work, then capital punishment will.

 

[Gumbo]

Difference is that was not Murder.

I know in your eyes it is, but the Judge & Justice system thought otherwise.

 

[Chrisbee]

Stephen, if I had suffered the the appalling attack that you have or were I in emmerson's position with regard to a relative I would no doubt subscribe to your views. However, without wishing to upset anyone, does the fact that you have been 'involved'cloud your judgement? Prior to the attack on you your opinion matched mine regarding the death penalty.

Perhaps that is why sentence is passed by an impartial judge who has little knowlege of living in the real world. As I said earlier, a realistic minimum tarrif set to show we will not accept this kind of offence.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Hello

YES 100% it has clouded my Judgement.I now think the punishment must fit the crime. Have you any idea how somthing like that can effect you. I am still not right now have brain damage spelling adding up etc from the kicking.Plus the damage to my back and kidneys I will never be the same agian.

 

[Dustydog]

I'm with Stephen a 100% here.

Winston Churchill famously said we will metre out to Hitler the measure and the measure more that he has metred out to us etc...

Tell me there wasn't one British citizen who said Churchill was wrong and don't hurt the Germans. My apologies now to present day Germans who have nothing to do with this analogy.

If someone hurts you, how on earth can you love them???? Bizarre.

Cheers

Alan

 

[emmerson2]

Difference is that was not Murder.

I know in your eyes it is, but the Judge & Justice system thought otherwise.

Maybe, Gumbo, but that does not neccesarily make it right. I know my judgement is clouded, but it is still an insult to my sister and her family.

 

[Lutz]

That still leaves the question unanswered why the Germans of yesteryear ever fell in for such atrocities. I'm not blaming Churchill, but why didn't the Germans at the time say enough was enough before the situation developed the way it did? Why did they allow legalized murder? Then Churchill & Co. would not have had to intervene. That's what makes my blood boil. I will never forgive the generation before me.

 

[Guest]

It is interesting to note that one of the Crown Protections in the Caribbean has decided to re-introduce hanging as a punishment. Their gallows had been in 'mothballs' for many years so was possibly a bit 'rusty', but they did manage to achieve a quick end. Although still under the UK, they did not repeal that bit of legislation, merely suspended it, so re-introduction was perfectly legal.

Their reasoning? They have had a dramatic increase in violent crime and as they have tourism as their main source of income, they felt they had to do something drastic to stop things getting totally out of hand. Time will tell if they are right.

All civilised societies will state that the death penalty does not work, and that is true...provided you have a totally civilised society. When you have 2 societies comingling, and one does not wish to follow the same philosophy as the other, then you have a problem.

 

[ScouseIan]

Taking another human life is absolutely sacred. It should never ever be done. As ever, nothing is that simple. I can't match that statement up to killing in the army. Very complicated.

I think people who commit serious crimes should be locked away for ever (Murder, child molestors, etc). I would like to see a new type of Jail. A small, simple room with no contact with the outside world. Maybe a radio and as many books as required. No visitors. Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to torture them or punish them physically, I just want them removed from ANY type of society or community, including other inmates. Keep them warm and fed till their end of days, away from any possibility of repeating crimes. The costs for this would surely be less than current where we try to give them in effect a replacement community in prison that ends up not much unlike outside prison.

Also, I would like to see violence absolutely cracked down upon. There are too many people who think violence is acceptable as a daily activity. Giving people a slap in the pub, threatening drivers on the road, kids in groups doing whatever because they are untouchable. I don't blame the police because their hands are tied, I blame the governments we've had for past 30 years. They have let this situation develop and are doing nothing about it.

 

[Garfield]

Sorry Lutz, I too wear the hang em & flog em badge, I do understand those who say the likes of hindley, Brady and Huntley should live out their punishment but no-one wants to see their likes back on the streets so as a tax payer I don't want to pay to keep them alive and incarcerated. I would equip their cells with a selection of suicide methods.

I have also been the victim of a motiveless street attack, fortunately the wrinkles of old age have hidden the scars on my face.

I also firmly beleive that prison should only be used as a method of preventing re-offence, ie if circumstances are such that there is little or no chance of re-offending then a custodial punishment should not be used even for quite serious crimes but persistent minor offenders should be caged.

And another thing!!! The government wants to up the duty on alcohol to stop binge drinking so the rest of us that are responsible get stung, I say more use of the drunk and disorderly law should be made and anyone found in the street drunk and badly behaved should be carted off to a warehouse style holding cells untill they or someone else pays a set fine.

We are lucky ( in a way) and live in rural N Yorks but many that stay in our holiday cottages are from Nottingham, Derby, Leeds etc and they all tell the same horror stories of how society has degenerated in our cities. Part of the problem is that the morally void, unemployable scum are doing all the breeding and frequently have 4-5 children by 4-5 different partners and we are paying them to do this!!!!!!, the woman that was recently jailed for kidnapping her own daughter was an example of this.

 

[Parksy]

Hi All

I only popped in to see if anybody has actually been hanged on here while I've been out carrying the shopping :0)

Off topic I know but there were many complicated reasons why Hitler and the NSDAP gained power during the 1930s in Germany.

The terms of the Treaty of Versailles was monstrously unfair to Germany and caused real hardship amongst the population. The Weimar Republic was weak and innefectual and Germany suffered hyper inflation to the extent that banknotes were overprinted with higher denominations so that savings disappeared overnight.

Hitler promised full employment, a return of national pride and identity and stable family life.

His party were democratically elected but he then seized absolute power, set fire to the Reichstag and used terror to enforce his will.

If ordinary German citizens had opposed him they would have dissapeared into Nacht und Nebel - Night and Fog.

He blamed 'international Jewry' for the hardships suffered after the Great War and whilst Jews were being used as scapegoats the Nazis put into place the terrible machinery of state with far reaching tentacles which impacted on everybody's lives.

In the end the Germans by and large had no real choice other than to go along with the course that the Nazis determined.

I like to think with hindsight that the world was rid of a monstrous evil and the stark lesson is there for all to see.

Our fathers actually liberated ordinary Germans from the evil that had befallen them and the rest of the world.

Holocaust day was commemorated this week so don't blame the previous generation too much now, it would be far more productive for us all to oppose racism and political extremism and to learm from what happened in the past

 

[mistermac]

Hi

Someone's mentioned 'an eye for an eye' on here - almost as if quoting the Bible makes it 'ok.'

Well, the Bible also states 'Turn the other cheek.'

I'd like to think that we've moved on from the barbaric 'tit-for-tat' argument (unfortunately most of the country don't agree) and that we are now living in what we'd like to call 'civilisation.'

Sort of sets us apart from the animal kingdom.

Well - I'd like to think so.

Mac

 

[Parksy]

Hi All

I only popped in to see if anybody has actually been hanged on here while I've been out carrying the shopping :0)

Off topic I know but there were many complicated reasons why Hitler and the NSDAP gained power during the 1930s in Germany.

The terms of the Treaty of Versailles was monstrously unfair to Germany and caused real hardship amongst the population. The Weimar Republic was weak and innefectual and Germany suffered hyper inflation to the extent that banknotes were overprinted with higher denominations so that savings disappeared overnight.

Hitler promised full employment, a return of national pride and identity and stable family life.

His party were democratically elected but he then seized absolute power, set fire to the Reichstag and used terror to enforce his will.

If ordinary German citizens had opposed him they would have dissapeared into Nacht und Nebel - Night and Fog.

He blamed 'international Jewry' for the hardships suffered after the Great War and whilst Jews were being used as scapegoats the Nazis put into place the terrible machinery of state with far reaching tentacles which impacted on everybody's lives.

In the end the Germans by and large had no real choice other than to go along with the course that the Nazis determined.

I like to think with hindsight that the world was rid of a monstrous evil and the stark lesson is there for all to see.

Our fathers actually liberated ordinary Germans from the evil that had befallen them and the rest of the world.

Holocaust day was commemorated this week so don't blame the previous generation too much now, it would be far more productive for us all to oppose racism and political extremism and to learm from what happened in the past

Sorry, I should have addressed this post to Lutz who can't forgive the previous generation of Germans

 

[Lutz]

Yes, Parksy, I can follow your explanation about how it all came to pass, but that's still no excuse for allowing the atrocities that followed. It could only have happened if everyone looked the other way. Of course, once it developed its own dynamism, it became more and more difficult to do anything about it without risking life and limb, but during the early stages, people must have been blind and made no attempt to question what was going on. It certainly put a strain on my relationship to my parents. Maybe that's what makes Germans today more self-critical and, on the whole, anti-militaristic than other nations.

What I actually meant to say in my previous post is that the call for harsher punishment is a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.

 

[Parksy]

There was a lot of secrecy involved in the early stages of Hitler's

rise to power Lutz, and no mass media such as has existed since the end of the Second World War.

By the time that most ordinary folk realised what was actually taking place it was far too late.

The propaganda methods used were unheard of up until that time and people were far less sophisticated and were poorer educated than is normal these days.

Your parents grew up in an age when people did what they were told, or else!

I'm certainly not an apologist for the horrors that took place but try not to judge your parents too harshly

I'll steer well clear of the hanging and punishment debate I think.

 

[Guest]

Lutz,

Without having any knowledge of your own circumstances all I can state is from your Post is that you are taking things too literally and with a certain degree of naivety. Parksy has explained a lot of the circumstances that led up to the assumption of power by the Nazis and I must admit that if I had been a starving German in the 20's and someone came along offering me a way out, I too probably would have been tempted. As Parksy has also explained, once in power Hitler changed the laws to ensure he could not be challenged, and if you so wish, to a certain degree similar things are currently happening to our freedom of speech and action all covered under the blanket of 'terrorism'. Whether we can stop it, or succumb is still a question. No, we have not yet reached the stage of blaming a race for all our problems but I do make the point that when the State issues laws that make it difficult for you to protest without affecting your freedom, then the majority tend to stay quiet.

The other factor which I feel is relevant is that Hitler was not German, but Austrian. Germany has accepted, almost too much the guilt of the previous generation, but in neighbouring Austria things are very different. There the events of the 30's and 40's have been buried under a blanket of silence where the State even still pays pensions to ex Concentration Camp guards living openly in Vienna. It may not be of much comfort to Germans but a number of the leading architects of the Holocaust were not German. Yes, there were bad ones, of that there is no doubt. But to blame a whole race for the faults of a few, is exactly the same premise under which Hitler operated. Again, I am not picking on Austria as a scapegoat, although there are many unanswered questions in connection with that country.

Even up to the 1940's there were many in the UK and certainly in the USA who thought that Hitler was a force to be supported. As we all know IBM was a supplier of computerised card data files to the Concentration Camps all through the War, and even the Kennedy's were very anti UK, and pro Germany when the late Joseph Kennedy was Ambassador in the UK.

So, there were many different events happening and so the guilt trip neither starts, nor stops with Germans. We should use history to guide us, not to control us and look forward positively.

 

[Parksy]

Lutz,

Without having any knowledge of your own circumstances all I can state is from your Post is that you are taking things too literally and with a certain degree of naivety. Parksy has explained a lot of the circumstances that led up to the assumption of power by the Nazis and I must admit that if I had been a starving German in the 20's and someone came along offering me a way out, I too probably would have been tempted. As Parksy has also explained, once in power Hitler changed the laws to ensure he could not be challenged, and if you so wish, to a certain degree similar things are currently happening to our freedom of speech and action all covered under the blanket of 'terrorism'. Whether we can stop it, or succumb is still a question. No, we have not yet reached the stage of blaming a race for all our problems but I do make the point that when the State issues laws that make it difficult for you to protest without affecting your freedom, then the majority tend to stay quiet.

The other factor which I feel is relevant is that Hitler was not German, but Austrian. Germany has accepted, almost too much the guilt of the previous generation, but in neighbouring Austria things are very different. There the events of the 30's and 40's have been buried under a blanket of silence where the State even still pays pensions to ex Concentration Camp guards living openly in Vienna. It may not be of much comfort to Germans but a number of the leading architects of the Holocaust were not German. Yes, there were bad ones, of that there is no doubt. But to blame a whole race for the faults of a few, is exactly the same premise under which Hitler operated. Again, I am not picking on Austria as a scapegoat, although there are many unanswered questions in connection with that country.

Even up to the 1940's there were many in the UK and certainly in the USA who thought that Hitler was a force to be supported. As we all know IBM was a supplier of computerised card data files to the Concentration Camps all through the War, and even the Kennedy's were very anti UK, and pro Germany when the late Joseph Kennedy was Ambassador in the UK.

So, there were many different events happening and so the guilt trip neither starts, nor stops with Germans. We should use history to guide us, not to control us and look forward positively.

Hear! Hear! Scotch Lad and extremely well put!

 

[Guest]

Thank you Parksy, but having part ancestry that would have undoubtedly ensured my demise in the event of Hitler winning the War, OK I would not even have been born is more accurate, but it is a sobering thought to know your fate could be defined by things over which you have no control.

However, ...back to the hanging and flogging.

Just for information Lothian and Borders finest is selling reproduction newspapers describing the trial, and execution of Burke and Hare in 1829. Evidently 25000 people turned up to see him swing in Parliament Square. Lothian and Borders even have a business card holder made of Burke's skin and for those who didn't know, his body was donated to the very medical school where he sent all his victims. His skeleton is still in the medical school in Edinburgh.

Just down the road from where I live there are 2 square cobbles set into the road. These mark the holes for the gallows where 2 robbers were hung in the late 1800's for killing a milkmaid. There is no plaque, just the 6 inch square cobbles set in to a tarmac road. I know some of the locals feel it would be a good idea to re-instate the posts for current use. The Edinburgh citizenry had their own ways with justice. After all our own Deacon Brodie invented the gallows, and became its first user and the Grassmarket saw so many executions that I would hate to live there.

But as one of my other ancestors was a POW in Edinburgh Castle for many years ( he supported Napoleon) I suppose you could say, it is in the family so to speak.

 

[Guest]

Thank you Parksy, but having part ancestry that would have undoubtedly ensured my demise in the event of Hitler winning the War, OK I would not even have been born is more accurate, but it is a sobering thought to know your fate could be defined by things over which you have no control.

However, ...back to the hanging and flogging.

Just for information Lothian and Borders finest is selling reproduction newspapers describing the trial, and execution of Burke and Hare in 1829. Evidently 25000 people turned up to see him swing in Parliament Square. Lothian and Borders even have a business card holder made of Burke's skin and for those who didn't know, his body was donated to the very medical school where he sent all his victims. His skeleton is still in the medical school in Edinburgh.

Just down the road from where I live there are 2 square cobbles set into the road. These mark the holes for the gallows where 2 robbers were hung in the late 1800's for killing a milkmaid. There is no plaque, just the 6 inch square cobbles set in to a tarmac road. I know some of the locals feel it would be a good idea to re-instate the posts for current use. The Edinburgh citizenry had their own ways with justice. After all our own Deacon Brodie invented the gallows, and became its first user and the Grassmarket saw so many executions that I would hate to live there.

But as one of my other ancestors was a POW in Edinburgh Castle for many years ( he supported Napoleon) I suppose you could say, it is in the family so to speak.

By the way, Burke hanged, Hare got off by turning King's evidence.

 

[Guest]

Thank you Parksy, but having part ancestry that would have undoubtedly ensured my demise in the event of Hitler winning the War, OK I would not even have been born is more accurate, but it is a sobering thought to know your fate could be defined by things over which you have no control.

However, ...back to the hanging and flogging.

Just for information Lothian and Borders finest is selling reproduction newspapers describing the trial, and execution of Burke and Hare in 1829. Evidently 25000 people turned up to see him swing in Parliament Square. Lothian and Borders even have a business card holder made of Burke's skin and for those who didn't know, his body was donated to the very medical school where he sent all his victims. His skeleton is still in the medical school in Edinburgh.

Just down the road from where I live there are 2 square cobbles set into the road. These mark the holes for the gallows where 2 robbers were hung in the late 1800's for killing a milkmaid. There is no plaque, just the 6 inch square cobbles set in to a tarmac road. I know some of the locals feel it would be a good idea to re-instate the posts for current use. The Edinburgh citizenry had their own ways with justice. After all our own Deacon Brodie invented the gallows, and became its first user and the Grassmarket saw so many executions that I would hate to live there.

But as one of my other ancestors was a POW in Edinburgh Castle for many years ( he supported Napoleon) I suppose you could say, it is in the family so to speak.

Hmmm parksy and scotch lad make me smile, you get youre history leasons straight from the sky history channel without doing proper reserch.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Hi All

I come up with an Idea. What about this if somone kills someone like these murders we keep seeing on the news. What about life in prison not just 4 or 5 year which seems to be the norm. But life to they die in prison. No getting out early but your there till your dieing day.