C&CC

[colin-yorkshire]

sorry mod

I think I boobed with the crosses I didn,t expect it to do that

please delete my last post that should put things right

 

[ThePlotter]

The Mod has been at it again having it seems deleted half of my post above which is now not what was said as I went on to comment upon green issues.

 

[ThePlotter]

The Mod has been at it again having it seems deleted half of my post above which is now not what was said as I went on to comment upon green issues.

Maybe not the Mod after all it seems my post is now three pages wide!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

sorry plotter think that was my fault

I put a few lines of crosses in my post and the engine thought it was one word

re post your answer you will probably find it ok now

 

[colin(bridgend)]

If I can address two points raised on this topic and appears to be directed at me.

Firstly Richard I will agree that I was not directly affected by the 1980s miners strike as I was teaching in further education and as I stated I have never been underground. However my wife's family were all directly related to the coal industry and were therfore subjected to the treatment and troubles that you have highlighted. I am a Tory at heart but can understand the feelings of not only the miners but also the community because the Garw valley in south Wales is not now the friendly happy close knit community it once was. That day when the mines in the valley closed the community spirit and life took a knock and has gone downhill ever since. We still visit the valley as my mother-in-law, brother-in-law and many of the wife's cousins still live in the valley and we are assured a warm welcome from them whenever we visit. However many of the shops, clubs and pubs have closed and there are so many strangers there now it has lost that community atmosphere. Although it is not a dying valley it is not the same as when I was first introduced to the valley in 1966.

Frank as far as being a "Townie" I first became aware of the Garw valley in 1966 when I met my wife. Prior to me taking her out the furthest she went for a normal day out was Bridgend (approx 8 miles away) by bus. We were both 21 when we met and my wife had never been to either Cardiff or Swansea prior to our meeting. The main outing in the valley was the Sunday School outing once a year to either Barry or Porthcawl. She also had one holiday and that was in a tent with her brother, parents and neighbours at Trecco Bay Porthcawl.

The Garw valley is a closed valley ie not a through valley and any stranger in the valley was looked upon with contempt. My wife was a relief manageress for Maypole stores and in those days there was counter service. After we were married customers would rather wait for another girl to serve them than my wife because she had married out of the valley - me being from Port Talbot.

You might not have experienced the feeling of being an outcast within a community but we joined a local club in the valley and we were definately not made welcome. Before we met my wife would be a regular at the club and mixed socially with all other valley members. I have experienced the feeling of being an outcast first hand for quite a few years. In 1972 we bought a house in the valley and then we began to be accepted by the locals.

Gentlemen please do not take the above personnally - all I am trying to do is set the record straight regarding my wife and self. I am not in any way trying to create any ill feeling against eiither of you or any other miner/valley resident from any part of the UK in any shape or form. In many instances they are a more sociable bunch of people than many "townies".

 

[Val & Frank]

Colin Yorkshire

The Lord of the Manor thing is tripe. That's the bit of your post I was refering to, just so you don't think I was doubting the rest of it.

Val & Frank

 

[Val & Frank]

Colin Bridgend " The Garw valley in south Wales is not now the friendly happy close knit community it once was ".

This must of been pre 1966. Colin my wife comes from a closed "valley"

From the first weekend, I went to the Con Club and then across to the Bomb I was never made to feel not welcome. I was given a guided tour underground at the Lady Windsor, and if we could of afforded it, I think everyone would have come to our wedding. As they say in Yorkshire "nowt as queer as folk" sorry but your experience of the valley is so very different from mine. In fact it sounds like a good idea for a lot of incomers to take on the sad culture that exsisted in The Garw. Why would anyone view a stranger with contempt ???

I must admit I did smile at the Maypole, our local meat shop Redmans was taken over by Maypole!!!!!!!!! about 1962

Val & Frank

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Frank - The Garw valley at one time (prior to the mid 1980s) was a marvellous place to live as there was that friendly comradeship and trust. My parents when living in Port Talbot were not sure the names of their neighbours - it was so cold an atmosphere compared to the valley. My parents-in-law would leave the key in the front door from 7:30am to when they went to bed, even if they were out. The fruit & veg man would call, pick the order up off the sideboard and then his money and leave the bill and change. Same for the door to door salesman (who happened to be a valley resident and known by all). The gents outfitters and the shoe shop would let you take clothes/shoes home, try them on and either return them or call back and pay for them. This would never happen nowadays in either a town or valley. The valley could have at one time declared UDI and would have probably survived as the residents all pulled together. The housewife would not only sweep and wash the front step(s) but alo the pavement. Nowadays there is not that pride of even washing the front step(s).

That atmosphere has now gone as the older people are dying off and the price of the properties is all the first time buyers from Bridgend can afford to get on to the property ladder.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

frank

I am sure you believe in your memories, just as I do.

and your political outlook is based on life experiences just as mine are and obviously we have different views because thats what life has thrown at us you say evny, I say greed.

you probably see mrs T as some sort of heroine, however I see her as as something else.

the poll tax issue and the miners strike are at least two things we will probably never agree on however facts are facts and cannot be manipulated by political dogma.

I used the lord and farmworker scenario to put a valid point if both had wives that did not work and both had 2 chldren at home what would have been the poll tax bill for the respective families. answer exactly the same.

the fact that one of them would have to pay 20% of his total earnings to meet the bill and the other 0.20% did not seem to matter thats what made the tax obscenely unfair.

and to point this out is not tripe

 

[Val & Frank]

Colin

"the fact that one of them would have to pay 20% of his total earnings to meet the bill and the other 0.20% did not seem to matter thats what made the tax obscenely unfair.

and to point this out is not tripe.

Yes it is. The question was Is It FAIR and the answer has to be no it's not. You missed pointing out that the lord of the manor already paid Tax at 40%. Like the mining industry what wanted a subsidy from the rest of the taxpayers. The council is no different.

Val & Frank

 

[Val & Frank]

Colin "the poll tax issue and the miners strike are at least two things we will probably never agree on however facts are facts and cannot be manipulated by political dogma".

Which facts have I given that are wrong Political dogma or not I stand by my facts. I bet you 3 million scots vote against the council tax for being unfair.

Val & Frank

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Colin (yorkshire) and Frank - Gentlemen although I am not a moderator on this site I think that some of your postings are becoming personal. The forum is for friendly postings and also to express ones views without creating hard feelings to other contributers. Can I be so bold as to ask that the topic returns to a friendly atmosphere regarding views and opinions. Thank you gentlemen. Regards Colin (bridgend)

 

[colin-yorkshire]

colin (bridgend) I am sorry that you feel this thread has got personel for my part it has not, as I have no animosity towards anybody either contributing or not, its just a debate on political views not an arguement just a debate, and it will be a very sad day when one cannot express ones views without censure or personel attacks.

that having been said back to the debate.

it's not that his lordship has paid 40% tax that is relevent it is the total precentage of income that matters, and thats what was unfair.

ie:- his lordship 40% income tax + 0.20% poll tax = 40.20% total

farm worker 25%income tax +20% poll tax = 45% total

the worker paid a higher percentage of total income towards the tax plus had less income to start with so it was a tax on the poor a loaf of bread is the same price whoever buys it.

lets not forget in those days there were no minimum wage no tax credits and council tax rebates to help

 

[Val & Frank]

I would agree it would look personal, but it isn't, well not from my point of view. I thank you for your concern Colin (bridgend). Will be down your way in July looks like Val's Grandmother was born in llanguicke or possibly llangiwg.

Val & Frank

 

[Val & Frank]

Colin " it's not that his lordship has paid 40% tax that is relevent it is the total precentage of income that matters, and thats what was unfair".

OK what is fair then ??? Before you answer really think about it and tell me what is fair !!!!!!!!!!!

Val & Frank

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Gentlemen I respect your sincerity regarding the fact that you both have no intention of slanging each other and that your intentions are to have a "friendly" debate.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

thanks colin(bridgend)theres no need to worry realy because while some contributors may take diferent views on certain subjects we all have something more important in common carravaning.

and this thread is just about dead anyway because you can't have a debate when one side just keeps cutting and pasting your answer and adding another question without answering any them selves