Caravan Breakdown. Lost £280 Holiday Next Week

[Notmyvan]

I have a 2013 Coachman which I bought 10 months ago from a dealer.
I have a site booked for next week which cost £280.
The caravan came out of undercover storage last week and the battery was down so had it charged.
Fitted today and non of the 12volt electrics work.
Plugged the 240 mains in and everything works but no water,
The pump light comes on but no water to taps or presumably hot water system.
Although its under warrenty from dealer we bought it from they cant look at it for 3 weeks.
(the Motor Mover works so its not the battery)

Any suggestions as to what it could be. (A Coachman Service engineer said it could the PCB tripped out< the Dealer I
bought it from said it could be the battery charger but I think its working as when I tested the battery 1t was 12.2 v and afte
an hour in the Caravan with 240v connected 17 was 13.2v)

All suggestions gratefully received as I hate to lose a £280 Holiday.

 

[GaryB]

Rather than lose the holiday money try calling a mobile engineer if possible to give an opinion? Although it’ll cost it might work out cheaper than losing £280. Another option is to try and trace everything with a multimeter using a wiring diagram to identify where the problem lies. There’s sometimes an internal fuse in the PSU, if there is in yours it could be suspect.

 

[GaryB]

Just re-read your post, is it just the water pump or is it the entire 12 volt system (lights, fridge control etc)?

 

[Hutch]

Check, the 20 amp fuse in the battery main + connection. Also does the voltage show in the panel above the door? Is the master switch ON, and the lights switch on. The water pump might need bleeding also the contacts on the water hose connector might be corroded.
The awning light and the TV aerial amplifier are live switched and do not go through the Master switch are these working. ?
Gary B's idea of an AWS is a good idea.

 

[Buckman]

I think that the motor mover is totally independent from the 12v system, but proves that battery is okay.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Based purely on your description of the problems, We know the battery has survived because it drives the motoromover, and if it can manage that then it should be able to power the caravans 12V systems. As others have pointed out, the mover has a seperate set of wires to the battery, so it might be working even if the caravan doesn't.

When the mains power is connected, all but the water pump operates, so this confirms the caravan built in 12V power supply/ charger is working, and the fact the water pump light illuminates suggests there is power being sent to the pump. THis can be checked by probing the pump connection on the side of the outside of caravan with a Multimeter set to Volts, which should show 12 to 14V

This all points to a problem connecting the battery and the caravan wiring. There is usually a fuse (typically 20Amp rated) in the batteries +ve cable to the caravan, if this has blown, it would fit the symptoms about the supply. follow the wiring form the battery box and see if you can find a fuse holder in the positive wire.

If you have accidentally connected the battery wires the wrong way round, even just a monetary touch, that is more than enough to cause the protective fuses to do their job and blow.

The pump may have a separate fault. I presume it's a submersible pump you drop into the external water barrel. It's important to drop the pump into the water before you connect it to the caravan every time you change the water, otherwise it might get an air lock in the pump.

But its also important to ensure the pump doesn't run for more than a few moments when the water barrel empties, as it relies on the water passing through it to cool the pump motor. If it runs dry for more than a minute or so the motor warms up and can soften the plastic pump body causing it distort. This can allow water into the motor housing when its next filled and that will drastically shorten its life expectancy.

 

[Raywood]

The Prof has covered all the potential problems as far as I can see.
Given the pump cannot be plugged in with the polarity reversed I am not sure that point is likely though, although I would check the fuse anyway..
If it is just the pump not working I would try and borrow someone else's and see if that works to check it. We have had the pump fail on us and lived without it for a short period. personally if it means losing a holiday I would still go and hope you can cure it there if all else fails. It would be inconvenient but we could live with it assuming the site has full facilities.
From experience I suspect either the fuse or pump or both. If the pump fails it can also blow the fuse.

 

[Notmyvan]

I have a 2013 Coachman which I bought 10 months ago from a dealer.
I have a site booked for next week which cost £280.
The caravan came out of undercover storage last week and the battery was down so had it charged.
Fitted today and non of the 12volt electrics work.
Plugged the 240 mains in and everything works but no water,
The pump light comes on but no water to taps or presumably hot water system.
Although its under warrenty from dealer we bought it from they cant look at it for 3 weeks.
(the Motor Mover works so its not the battery)

Any suggestions as to what it could be. (A Coachman Service engineer said it could the PCB tripped out< the Dealer I
bought it from said it could be the battery charger but I think its working as when I tested the battery 1t was 12.2 v and afte
an hour in the Caravan with 240v connected 17 was 13.2v)

All suggestions gratefully received as I hate to lose a £280 Holiday.

To: GaryB. No mobile engineers available. If there is an internal fuse (USB) I dont know where it is but will ask at a caravan shop.
Everything is off when I disconnect the 240v.
To Hutch. Yes I will check all the fuses again. Yes the voltage above the door shows a voltage display but nothing when I disconnect the 240v supply. The Awning light only works when the 240v is connected.
There is a test switch by the switches in the consumer board and I tried it yesterday and nothing happened, But I dont know if I had the 12 v connected or cartainly if the 240v was connected then that could be the problem.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Notmyvan,

Your answers are concerning me, it seems you are not familiar with types of wiring and how they interact within the caravan, I'm concerned for your safety if we begin to ask you to trying to test various items.

I'm sorry you haven't been able to find a suitable repairer which is jeopardising your holiday, but sometimes plans have to change.

 

[Dustydog]

Before we had an on board pump I used to carry a spare submersible pump. A lot of sites sell them because they fail regularly. Follow all the advice given above and I am sure you will enjoy your holiday. In fact do you really need pumped water? I assume you are not off grid so can use all the on site facilities. Your own throne is working. Just no hot or cold running water. Kettle , gas , cold water = hot water for a wash . Washing up can be done on site. Go on , even if you don’t get the pump resolved , enjoy your holiday.

 

[RogerL]

Before we had an on board pump I used to carry a spare submersible pump. A lot of sites sell them because they fail regularly. Follow all the advice given above and I am sure you will enjoy your holiday. In fact do you really need pumped water? I assume you are not off grid so can use all the on site facilities. Your own throne is working. Just no hot or cold running water. Kettle , gas , cold water = hot water for a wash . Washing up can be done on site. Go on , even if you don’t get the pump resolved , enjoy your holiday.

I have a spare submersible - which almost guarantees that the original will never fail - until I leave the spare at home!

 

[Notmyvan]

Thanks for the replies. Yes I agree I am not familiar with Caravan Wiring, I would mention that I had a garage for 25 years and was familiar with vehicle wiring, but the mix of 12v & 240v is new to me.

I have re-tested all the fuses and found a 20 amp fuse blown and when I replaced it everything worked apart from amything to do with incoming water. A check on the electrodes (if thats the word) where you Push in the Truma Water Pump onto the 2 electrodes shows that there is no 12v supply to push onto.

Also I noticed that on the Consumer Board there appears to be a White Switch with the words Push Monthly.
When this is pushed absolutely nothing happens. Next to it are the words Push to Test. Main Isolator.

Perhaps this is where the fault is ?

See photo below.

 

[Hutch]

NMV, Ok so you have found the blown 20 amp fuse, this is the master feed into the consumer unit, So all the ,12 volt stuff should work now, power to the radio, 12 volt to the fridge for the electronic control. And the 12 volt lights above the seats.
Now check your water pump turns freely, small screwdriver into the base , and you might feel a click as it frees itself. There is a 10 amp fuse box, check continuity of that fuse and clean water pump contacts and recheck for voltage with the water pump switch above the van door turn to on. Before you refit the water pump

 

[ProfJohnL]

The photo you have shown is the mains 230V ac consumer unit and three of the modules, From left to right, in the picture you have a double pole Miniature Circuit Breaker (MCB) that protects the Heater and Boiler mains supply , and MCB that protects the the mains sockets against excess current The RH block is a Residual Current Circuit Breaker (RCCB) which detects if there is any current leakage to protect you from main electric shocks. I would expect there to be another MCB (out of the picture on the LH side) for the mains lighting.

The RCCB has a test button which proves the unit actually functions. When the caravan is connected to 230Vac mains supply, and the RCCB switch is pointing up (ON) when you press the white test button, the blue switch should trip off (down) If it does not work, then it is faulty and must be changed.

The Consumer unit only controls the mains supply to the wiring and appliances in the caravan. It will also control the caravans battery charger/ Power Supply, but it does not explain the 12V problems you have experienced.

The Blown 20A fuse is far more likely as you have discovered,main problem, but you still have an issue with the pump.

Water pumps are usually controlled either by a pressure switch, which detects a the pressure in the pipework, and will turn the pump on to pressurise the pipework. When a tap is opened it releases the pressure and turns on the pump, and when the tap closes the pump will continue to run until the pressure builds up in the pipework. The pressure switch has a control which allows the switch off threshold to be adjusted to suit the system.

The other system uses micro switches fitted inside every tap. All the switches are wired in parallel, so that when ever any tap is opened it sends power to the pump.

To test the power to the pump, the 12V system needs to be on in the caravan, and at least 1tap should be opened to send power to the pump. use the method i explained previously to test the voltage at the pumps exterior connector.

If no power is detected at the external connector the cables will need to be traced to find where the problem lies.

 

[Hutch]

The photo you have shown is the mains 230V ac consumer unit and three of the modules, From left to right, in the picture you have a double pole Miniature Circuit Breaker (MCB) that protects the Heater and Boiler mains supply , and MCB that protects the the mains sockets against excess current The RH block is a Residual Current Circuit Breaker (RCCB) which detects if there is any current leakage to protect you from main electric shocks. I would expect there to be another MCB (out of the picture on the LH side) for the mains lighting.

The RCCB has a test button which proves the unit actually functions. When the caravan is connected to 230Vac mains supply, and the RCCB switch is pointing up (ON) when you press the white test button, the blue switch should trip off (down) If it does not work, then it is faulty and must be changed.

The Consumer unit only controls the mains supply to the wiring and appliances in the caravan. It will also control the caravans battery charger/ Power Supply, but it does not explain the 12V problems you have experienced.

The Blown 20A fuse is far more likely as you have discovered,main problem, but you still have an issue with the pump.

Water pumps are usually controlled either by a pressure switch, which detects a the pressure in the pipework, and will turn the pump on to pressurise the pipework. When a tap is opened it releases the pressure and turns on the pump, and when the tap closes the pump will continue to run until the pressure builds up in the pipework. The pressure switch has a control which allows the switch off threshold to be adjusted to suit the system.

The other system uses micro switches fitted inside every tap. All the switches are wired in parallel, so that when ever any tap is opened it sends power to the pump.

To test the power to the pump, the 12V system needs to be on in the caravan, and at least 1tap should be opened to send power to the pump. use the method i explained previously to test the voltage at the pumps exterior connector.

If no power is detected at the external connector the cables will need to be traced to find where the problem lies.

On this year of Coachman there are no micro switches on the taps, there is the Truma pressure switch and damper which does not have an adjustment it is automatically done according to 12 volt supply. I have this system on my 2013 Coachman.

 

[RogerL]

On this year of Coachman there are no micro switches on the taps, there is the Truma pressure switch and damper which does not have an adjustment it is automatically done according to 12 volt supply. I have this system on my 2013 Coachman.

It's not uncommon that where a pressure-switched system is used, the manufacturer may continue fitting taps with micro-switches but without any connections to the micro-switches - apparently it's cheaper to use one standard of tap.

 

[Slowtow]

Apologies if already said, but submersible pumps commonly stored in the kitchen sink when the caravan is in storage have a tendancy to coil up on themselves which means when you place the pump in the water container it then starts to coil up hardly making contact with the water but you won't see that from the outside ofcourse.

We store our pump stretched out in one of the cupboards as a result of this. Anyway just a thought.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Apologies if already said, but submersible pumps commonly stored in the kitchen sink when the caravan is in storage have a tendancy to coil up on themselves which means when you place the pump in the water container it then starts to coil up hardly making contact with the water but you won't see that from the outside ofcourse.

An interesting thought and worth noting but I never had that problem even though the pumps I had were coiled up, so I'm not sure its all that much of a common problem.

 

[Jcloughie]

An interesting thought and worth noting but I never had that problem even though the pumps I had were coiled up, so I'm not sure its all that much of a common problem.

I agree, I never had that problem either. But on vans with an onboard pump, so just a tube going into the barrel, it is an issue. I drilled a hole in a barrel cap and fixed a length of plastic pipe in the hole. The pipe reached nearly to the bottom of the barrel. This cure£ the problem and may work for submersible pumps as well if the pipe is big enough.

I think these may be available commercially.


John

 

[otherclive]

On my last Swift it had an internal pump but even the OEM hose for the aqua roll didn't give a problem. It had a strainer on the end and it just seemed to stay at the bottom of the aqua roll.

 

[Jcloughie]

On my last Swift it had an internal pump but even the OEM hose for the aqua roll didn't give a problem. It had a strainer on the end and it just seemed to stay at the bottom of the aqua roll.

Probably in the nature of the type of hose.

John

 

[Slowtow]

An interesting thought and worth noting but I never had that problem even though the pumps I had were coiled up, so I'm not sure its all that much of a common problem.

Had that happen to us once with previous 'van so now keep the pump stretched out in a cupboard. Live and learn I guess.

 

[Bluetonic]

I had an issue that I thought was going to ruin a holiday too.
I could not get any water out of the taps, checked and there was 12volts at the connector so assumed the pump had failed.
Off to the local-ish caravan place and bought a new pump, fitted and fully expecting water at the taps but still nothing.
Then I decided to try the shower, which worked!?!
It was only after that that I discovered the filter screens on the taps, unscrewed the kitchen one and it was clogged with limescale. Removed the limescale and it worked. Bathroom tap was in the same state.
So I didn't need to buy a pump 🙄 but do now have a spare, and at the start of every season I clean out the tap filter thingys

 

[Buckman]

I had an issue that I thought was going to ruin a holiday too.
I could not get any water out of the taps, checked and there was 12volts at the connector so assumed the pump had failed.
Off to the local-ish caravan place and bought a new pump, fitted and fully expecting water at the taps but still nothing.
Then I decided to try the shower, which worked!?!
It was only after that that I discovered the filter screens on the taps, unscrewed the kitchen one and it was clogged with limescale. Removed the limescale and it worked. Bathroom tap was in the same state.
So I didn't need to buy a pump 🙄 but do now have a spare, and at the start of every season I clean out the tap filter thingys

Our caravan is over 5 years old and we have never removed the filters to clean and we stay on a lot of CLs. However thanks for the heads up as worth remembering.

 

[Hutch]

Our caravan is over 5 years old and we have never removed the filters to clean and we stay on a lot of CLs. However thanks for the heads up as worth remembering.

It is limescale that blocks the filters, not crud, builds up slowly when the van is in storage,