because of the relatively low accident rate involving trailers need for an MOT will only flag up if the accident rate increases
Caravan M.O.T. Who would support it
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I think Gary is on a winning idea here. If you had a certificate/mot whatever when you had the caravan serviced by someone who was qualified/registered (eg. a dealership) then no extra charge need be involved. It will be people who dont bother to service /look after their 'van that present a safety hazard on the road. Derek.
I agree with Gary. After a service the caravan could be given a mot cert and those that don't have a service could pay a small fee, say thirty quid, which is only one and half nights pitch fee. This would ensure that caravans, especially older ones are safe to be on the road with every thing working as it should be. it makes logical sense.
Why are we debating this? Has there been a spate of caravan accidents that can be attributed to poor maintenance, just happened? If this were the case, then maybe an MOT would be ok. Look at it the other way though; those that are willingly get their caravan serviced will end up paying more, you're not going to get your local garage to do it for free. Those that do not get their caravan serviced are unlikely to get an MOT for their van. They will think, "hey I only use the thing for 3 weeks a year, why should I," and then go on and run the risk of getting caught, like the yobs in cars that find it's cheaper to get caught than pay the road fund tax. There again, already touched on, the cost of MOT's quickly followed maybe, by an extra road tax, and perhaps compulsory insurance. You're talking about turning the world of caravanning up on its head. Your going to have to tell dealers that they must accept the business from people that didn't buy their van from them, your going to need a much larger parts and spares operation, imagine going into your dealers and finding that because they cant get a small but important part for the gas fire, you cant have your van on the road. Your probably not even going to use that gas fire! Your taxed enough, the problems already in the caravan world are enough, don't go making life even harder for yourselves.
Here! here!Why are we debating this? Has there been a spate of caravan accidents that can be attributed to poor maintenance, just happened? If this were the case, then maybe an MOT would be ok. Look at it the other way though; those that are willingly get their caravan serviced will end up paying more, you're not going to get your local garage to do it for free. Those that do not get their caravan serviced are unlikely to get an MOT for their van. They will think, "hey I only use the thing for 3 weeks a year, why should I," and then go on and run the risk of getting caught, like the yobs in cars that find it's cheaper to get caught than pay the road fund tax. There again, already touched on, the cost of MOT's quickly followed maybe, by an extra road tax, and perhaps compulsory insurance. You're talking about turning the world of caravanning up on its head. Your going to have to tell dealers that they must accept the business from people that didn't buy their van from them, your going to need a much larger parts and spares operation, imagine going into your dealers and finding that because they cant get a small but important part for the gas fire, you cant have your van on the road. Your probably not even going to use that gas fire! Your taxed enough, the problems already in the caravan world are enough, don't go making life even harder for yourselves.
The mot would have nothing to do about your fire working or not, thats up to the individual to sort out. The MOT would cover the chassis, running gear and brakes etc ie the important bits that make it safe on the road not when it is pitched!Why are we debating this? Has there been a spate of caravan accidents that can be attributed to poor maintenance, just happened? If this were the case, then maybe an MOT would be ok. Look at it the other way though; those that are willingly get their caravan serviced will end up paying more, you're not going to get your local garage to do it for free. Those that do not get their caravan serviced are unlikely to get an MOT for their van. They will think, "hey I only use the thing for 3 weeks a year, why should I," and then go on and run the risk of getting caught, like the yobs in cars that find it's cheaper to get caught than pay the road fund tax. There again, already touched on, the cost of MOT's quickly followed maybe, by an extra road tax, and perhaps compulsory insurance. You're talking about turning the world of caravanning up on its head. Your going to have to tell dealers that they must accept the business from people that didn't buy their van from them, your going to need a much larger parts and spares operation, imagine going into your dealers and finding that because they cant get a small but important part for the gas fire, you cant have your van on the road. Your probably not even going to use that gas fire! Your taxed enough, the problems already in the caravan world are enough, don't go making life even harder for yourselves.
Would you approve of a 15 yr old van on the road with a rusty chassis that is close to corroding through, with the wheel bearings worn out and the brakes not functioning properly and a hair line crack in the tow hitch?
Would you then like to see mot's for cars abandoned?
Bring on the MOT, I say its time that caravanners as a group took some responsibility for safety and not leave it up to individuals who think they can save a few measely quid and tow a dodgy van for a few weeks a year......... it's not on.
In Europe the van is plated separately from the tow car.
I believe the initial plating/registration cost in excess of a
I believe the initial plating/registration cost in excess of a
In Europe the van is plated separately from the tow car.
I believe the initial plating/registration cost in excess of a
The MOT for your car, does that just include chassis, running gear and brakes? Or does it include instrumentation, seatbelts and any other number of none chassis, running gear and brakes equipment? What's this about, "if the fires not working its up to you to fix it"? Really? If that's the case and if it's up to us, why haven't we fixed the brakes too, or the corroded chassis? The MOT will include all safety issues.Why are we debating this? Has there been a spate of caravan accidents that can be attributed to poor maintenance, just happened? If this were the case, then maybe an MOT would be ok. Look at it the other way though; those that are willingly get their caravan serviced will end up paying more, you're not going to get your local garage to do it for free. Those that do not get their caravan serviced are unlikely to get an MOT for their van. They will think, "hey I only use the thing for 3 weeks a year, why should I," and then go on and run the risk of getting caught, like the yobs in cars that find it's cheaper to get caught than pay the road fund tax. There again, already touched on, the cost of MOT's quickly followed maybe, by an extra road tax, and perhaps compulsory insurance. You're talking about turning the world of caravanning up on its head. Your going to have to tell dealers that they must accept the business from people that didn't buy their van from them, your going to need a much larger parts and spares operation, imagine going into your dealers and finding that because they cant get a small but important part for the gas fire, you cant have your van on the road. Your probably not even going to use that gas fire! Your taxed enough, the problems already in the caravan world are enough, don't go making life even harder for yourselves.
What has the age of the van got to do with its condition? Just like cars, a new motor can be a danger, while well kept older models may be much safer, the law does not force people to have an MOT on a car until it's 3 years old, a lot of things can happen in three years. Elaine has already pointed out that just an MOT will not mean that it is roadworthy and I have personal experience of such an occurrence.
Who said we want the MOT for cars abandoned, eh? Nowhere in the text was that mentioned or even hinted at, do you want all testing of everything ended? No, thought not. Don't try to think or presume for us, you're just not good enough at it.
Your right about one thing, it is up to caravaners as a group to fix this, and it's sites like this that help, bringing people together and educating them.
Lol, its a bit OTT to say that Kangas remarks are going to "turn the world of caravanning up on its head". I too think that whilst no system is going to be foolproof an MOT type certificate issued after a service (which will or should include road worthiness of the caravan) will go a long way to making a car/'van combination safer. It should cost nothing extra to provide this certificate as the check should already be part of the annual service. So my opinion is all 'vanners have a responsibility to other road users by having an annual service/safety check for road worthiness. Its the least we can do!
LOL,
Many thanks for your reply.
Firstly could I just say that I was dismayed at your response regarding the line "Don't try to think or presume for us, you're just not good enough at it." was it really necessary to insult the opinion of a reformed character? Have you not read the recent posts regarding myself, clive and other certain members where we have agreed to disagree over a certain debate and to do this in a gentlemanly manner, could you not do the same?
Secondly regarding some of the valid points you made in your posting, I would like to further explain my reasoning so that you understand it fully. The MOT cert for a caravan would in my mind not have anything to do with interior equipment but to do with road safety only. The service will ensure the safety of interior equipment, so that the fire works properly and electrical devices are properly earthed and functioning. The interior equipment not functioning does not affect road safety at all but would affect pitch safety......... it would not be pleasant to have a van go up in flames next to you. I believe you are quite incorrect that the age of a van has no bearing on road safety, as mileage increases the wear on components also increases and the need for maintenance. There is no doubt that many older vans are well kept, but what about the few that aren't? Would you like an uncoupled van careering towards you with the brakes having failed? The only way to check the few is for an mot.
Regarding the mot on a car, everything that is tested is for road safety, so the radio/cd player or air con isn't tested but steering linkages are, seat belts,windscreen wipers, lights etc have to function for road safety and for no other purpose. That is what should be covered in a caravan mot - Road Safety.
kanga
Many thanks for your reply.
Firstly could I just say that I was dismayed at your response regarding the line "Don't try to think or presume for us, you're just not good enough at it." was it really necessary to insult the opinion of a reformed character? Have you not read the recent posts regarding myself, clive and other certain members where we have agreed to disagree over a certain debate and to do this in a gentlemanly manner, could you not do the same?
Secondly regarding some of the valid points you made in your posting, I would like to further explain my reasoning so that you understand it fully. The MOT cert for a caravan would in my mind not have anything to do with interior equipment but to do with road safety only. The service will ensure the safety of interior equipment, so that the fire works properly and electrical devices are properly earthed and functioning. The interior equipment not functioning does not affect road safety at all but would affect pitch safety......... it would not be pleasant to have a van go up in flames next to you. I believe you are quite incorrect that the age of a van has no bearing on road safety, as mileage increases the wear on components also increases and the need for maintenance. There is no doubt that many older vans are well kept, but what about the few that aren't? Would you like an uncoupled van careering towards you with the brakes having failed? The only way to check the few is for an mot.
Regarding the mot on a car, everything that is tested is for road safety, so the radio/cd player or air con isn't tested but steering linkages are, seat belts,windscreen wipers, lights etc have to function for road safety and for no other purpose. That is what should be covered in a caravan mot - Road Safety.
kanga
Slightly off topic, but it always surprised me that a vehicles towbar isn't covered under the "vehicle strusture" part of an MoT. Last year I saw a Sierra & caravan on the hard shoulder of the A42 where the back part of the towbar had come away from the car, causing the ball to drag on the ground!! As this was probably caused by corrosion of the vehicle in that area, it wouldn't have failed an MoT as it wasn't withing 12 inches of a load bearing area (suspension, seat belt etc), but if the whole towbar had come off, the caravan brakes would not have been activated (as the breakaway cable only works if the caravan comes off the towball, not if the towbar comes off the car). The consequences could have been far more serious....
Kanga, I like the reformed character you're presenting, long may it last. The tone of my reply was unfortunately set against your recent posts, for which I humbly apologise.
Your quite correct about the inspection of a cars roadworthiness, everything is checked to ensure that the vehicle is fit for purpose, and that is getting you from A to B. There is nothing else to check as such, safety wise on a car, that is why nothing else is done. A caravan is different though, it has the chassis, brakes etc but also a few other systems, that can and will harm occupants and passers by. Like you said, you would not want to be parked next to someone that has a leaky gas fire, or perhaps has managed to wire his 240v to the chassis. It all comes under the heading of safety and if the government wants to implement an MOT, then this will indeed be covered, I think that dealers already have to check these systems when they sell a van, I believe that this is what the MOT will be based on, pretty much a PDI inspection. You have probably gathered I don't want to see MOT's forced on us, it's not a personal thing, I just don't want to see another stealth tax levied on our heads, but if we must go down that road, I would be slightly more in favour of testing the van prior to sale. If you want to sell, get it into the dealers, get it put right and get a certificate to say it is safe, that way the new owners know the van is fit for purpose and are more likely to keep up maintenance if they know they have to do the same when they sell.
While I'm here, Daventura, I didn't say or mean that Kanga's words would turn the caravanning world on it's head, What I was postulating was the idea that having an MOT would, and I still stand by that. Indeed Kanga was and is not the only supporter for MOT's and I tried to not single out anyone. Please take a look at the motoring world, for your answers regarding costs, if you take your car in for an MOT and service, do you receive two bills at the end? Although most of the MOT items will be covered in the service, do you get a reduced cost or free MOT? Not usually, is the answer your looking for. Must admit though, it was nice seeing more than 2 words or a single sentence in your post bud; you should do it more often!
{pipe delimiter}One last thing, Kanga please post some of your funny comments, the world is a dull place without humour, but do yourself a favour (and us) just stick with the identity of Kanga and play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Remember, the way to be heard, is first to be believed, (just thought of that, but it sounds good!) keep it up.
Right that's an hour of my life used up, time to get a move on...
Your quite correct about the inspection of a cars roadworthiness, everything is checked to ensure that the vehicle is fit for purpose, and that is getting you from A to B. There is nothing else to check as such, safety wise on a car, that is why nothing else is done. A caravan is different though, it has the chassis, brakes etc but also a few other systems, that can and will harm occupants and passers by. Like you said, you would not want to be parked next to someone that has a leaky gas fire, or perhaps has managed to wire his 240v to the chassis. It all comes under the heading of safety and if the government wants to implement an MOT, then this will indeed be covered, I think that dealers already have to check these systems when they sell a van, I believe that this is what the MOT will be based on, pretty much a PDI inspection. You have probably gathered I don't want to see MOT's forced on us, it's not a personal thing, I just don't want to see another stealth tax levied on our heads, but if we must go down that road, I would be slightly more in favour of testing the van prior to sale. If you want to sell, get it into the dealers, get it put right and get a certificate to say it is safe, that way the new owners know the van is fit for purpose and are more likely to keep up maintenance if they know they have to do the same when they sell.
While I'm here, Daventura, I didn't say or mean that Kanga's words would turn the caravanning world on it's head, What I was postulating was the idea that having an MOT would, and I still stand by that. Indeed Kanga was and is not the only supporter for MOT's and I tried to not single out anyone. Please take a look at the motoring world, for your answers regarding costs, if you take your car in for an MOT and service, do you receive two bills at the end? Although most of the MOT items will be covered in the service, do you get a reduced cost or free MOT? Not usually, is the answer your looking for. Must admit though, it was nice seeing more than 2 words or a single sentence in your post bud; you should do it more often!
{pipe delimiter}One last thing, Kanga please post some of your funny comments, the world is a dull place without humour, but do yourself a favour (and us) just stick with the identity of Kanga and play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Remember, the way to be heard, is first to be believed, (just thought of that, but it sounds good!) keep it up.
Right that's an hour of my life used up, time to get a move on...
Lol, my point is that with a car it has to be MOT'd and most people would have it serviced but not necessarily both at the same time. With the 'van however, if it has been serviced then one perhaps could be assured that it will have been checked for road worthiness at the same. Anything that was not right, eg. a defective tyre would either have to be put right in order for the 'certificate' to be issued. In other words the van would only have to have one service/check as opposed to two individual ones as with a car MOT. I would always like to believe that when I fetch my 'van from the dealers after the annual service it is in a road worthy condition so whats stopping them confirming that with a 'road worthy condition certificate' at the same time?
I see what you are saying Daventura, and I agree, I'm not trying to ignore the point, it wouldn't hurt to issue some sort of certificate if the van is safe. But the world is not like that, let alone the caravan industry. If they can charge you for it, they will, and to be honest, why not?
Put yourself in the dealers shoes, the extra paperwork, time and inconvenience, getting certificated so that they can MOT your van legally, extra this and extra that...... you get the picture. This is all before they find that insignificant fault that has to be put right before they can release the van, remember, they are going to be legally obliged and accountable. Like I said it's a Pandora's box, are you willing to open it?
Put yourself in the dealers shoes, the extra paperwork, time and inconvenience, getting certificated so that they can MOT your van legally, extra this and extra that...... you get the picture. This is all before they find that insignificant fault that has to be put right before they can release the van, remember, they are going to be legally obliged and accountable. Like I said it's a Pandora's box, are you willing to open it?
Steve you are so right on this - I have been shown a trailer that I was expected to tow and not one tyre was legal! As for breaks - forget it? Even tho the guy was a friend he was not happy when I declined to help him out!I would support MOT on trailers, but would suggest all trailers say from 750 Kgs max gross weight upwards.
How many times do you see boat trailers with brake cables rusted off. Farm trailers with odd sized and bald tyres, also hugely out of proportion to the tractor towing them and no brakes!!
There are a lot of caravanners out there who either don't know how to maintain their own unit or can't afford the service costs levied by a dealer, so they chance their arm and stretch the service interval. Don't believe that just because the van is less than 3 years old and been towed only 2000 miles that it is still fine. If it has been on a seasonal pitch on the sea front, you would not beleive how much rust and corrosion can take place.
I'm forunate being an engineer, I can look after my 23 year old van and keep her in a good condition. It does take time (about one day to service a twin axle at home, but I do it every year just for piece of mind before I start the holiday season.
AS for RIP OFF BRITAIN I quite agree they would jump on the band wagon sooner or later. But as a great british tax payer what else do you expect !!
The day I get anything back from road tax, fuel tax or VAT, I'll probably keel over with a heart attack!!??
One other area is Horse boxes and horse trailers. A minority of users NEVER EVER service them!
One lady at the stables we had our horse at was told by me and others that the retaining ring on her front wheel of her horse lorry was not in place and was diging into the side wall of the tyre. When I told her she just looked at me blankly as if to say "what am I suppossed to do about it?"
She then went off to a show and had a blow out on the motorway -caused absolute chaos, fataly injured one of her horses and badly injured the other.
Thank God she didn't hit anyone else!
So bearing in mind this lorry had its anual "Test" and had passed - it did not guarantee agianst this person allowing the tyre to go flat then just pump it up without the proper checks!
Hi All
A caravan MOT has its merits.but on balance I would not be supportive of it. One also has to ask where one draws the line. Do we include horse boxes, builders trailers, car trailers or the
A caravan MOT has its merits.but on balance I would not be supportive of it. One also has to ask where one draws the line. Do we include horse boxes, builders trailers, car trailers or the
Hi All
A caravan MOT has its merits.but on balance I would not be supportive of it. One also has to ask where one draws the line. Do we include horse boxes, builders trailers, car trailers or the
Dont agree at all. The car MOT is always an annual nightmare ... will it get through, will I have to fork out a fortune in repairs. Why add to it? It may be prohibitive to many caravanners on a budget. The only people who would profit are the unscrupulous repairers who want to drum up business. Dont understand the motivation at all behind this. I havent come across reports of a huge quantity of caravans being unroadworthy, have you?
If you want an annual check, take it in voluntarily.
If you want an annual check, take it in voluntarily.
So what you are saying Alyson is that you don't mind towing an unsafe caravan so long as you save yourself a few quid. Do caravanners on a tight budget have special dispensation to tow and unsafe caravan, just because they cannot afford the cost of repairs. Unsafe caravans have no right on the road. This is exactly why there should be an MOT!
What possible justification do you have for assuming my caravan is unsafe? I wouldnt tow it if it wasnt.
I gave my opinion as I naively thought that both for and against opinions were sought. If you only want to hear from people that have the same ideas as you, thats fine, just make it clear.
Safe that isWhat possible justification do you have for assuming my caravan is unsafe? I wouldnt tow it if it wasnt.
Alyson, from your reply you are saying you would tow an unsafe caravan Quote " I wouldnt tow it if it wasn't. "
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