Caravan service

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Nov 11, 2009
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I totally agree people should check their domestic smoke and CO alarms on a regular basis, and consider routes to escape etc, but I'm not sure I understand your concern about the "sense of propionate" being suspect.

What is worse - not having an alarm or an alarm that doesn't work?
A sense of o proportion was the intended text. By that I mean that for some reason expectations regarding their caravan alarms are probably not matched by the actuality of dealing with the alarms fitted at home. When the period of occupancy and ease exit are taken into consideration the domestic home is probably the more important to check out. But how many do?

As regards your Confucian style question, that’s beaten me.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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Not withstanding what the Prof has said. I think the legalities are arguable in line with unclear contractural terms and inferred contractural terms. But more importantly. Why does a dealership get itself into this position?

The answer is obvious in my opinion and comes down to honesty, (or appearing to be honest), transparency, and communication. I almost feel like offering my services freelance, to educate their staff.

They may be deliberately misleading, or simply inept or fully expecting that their customers will be fully compliant.

Either way. Their methods will lead to customer dissatisfaction, customers leaving them and diminishing reputation.

Like Resteraunt’s, it only needs one bad experience and you never go back.

A quick Google show many servicing establishments spell their terms out very carefully. Like Damien has said.

This is just one example.

———————-

PLEASE NOTE

Standard parts for the full, habitation and chassis service are all included (eg. we do not charge extra for Alko one shot nuts or grease etc). If any extra work is required to be carried out that will incur a cost, Eddie will attempt to contact you before work is completed and give you an estimate of the cost.

Appliances are checked for operation and safety during these services, however the appliances themselves are not serviced. This is available at an extra cost as it requires the removal of the appliance and further work - Please contact Eddie for details.

* The results of the service are all presented to you in a comprehensive report for you to keep.

* All work carried out has a warranty period of 6 months.


————————

John
 
Nov 16, 2015
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I had a nice surprise the other day, working on my motorcycle, and running it to get the engine up to tempreture, suddenly a beeping alarm from inside the garage went off. I was confused as I only had a fire alarm fitted. It was an old CO detector that I had removed and replaced with a new one in our caravan two years ago. I had forgotten I had just put it on a shelf . So still working after maybe 8 years.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Not withstanding what the Prof has said. I think the legalities are arguable in line with unclear contractural terms and inferred contractural terms. But more importantly. Why does a dealership get itself into this position?......
To be totally accurate I haven't said anything - I wrote it.....😎

I fundamentally disagree that in this case there has been an unclear contractual term. The OP asked the business to carry out a service. The business had information published about the cost of a service, and crucially they did not state that parts and consumables were included. There is no ambiguity, if parts and consumables are not included they will be charged on top of the basic service charge.

Whilst I appreciate the work required to perform a service on a caravan will be largely similar for all models, there are a number of uncertainties about the detail of the work required. Things like the make of chassis, single or twin axle, dual 7 pin electrics or single 13pin. for the running gear, Then any items inside the caravan with multiple manufacturers, e.g. Wet or Blown hot air heating, Dometic/Electrolux/Thetford fridges, Different makes of cooker hobs, etc. It would therefore be difficult for a business to offer a single price for a service, without over inflating the price to cover model variations.

Generally where a company does include some parts and consumables, they state it clearly along with any limitations, otherwise customers could not be charged for new tyres or pigtails if they needed to be changed.

As consumers we have to be vigilant to watch out for advertisers little tricks. In the example I gave above there is a weasel word "from" meaning the could charge almost whatever they liked.

Contrary to Dusty's comment about dealers being very busy, In terms of sales yes, but most service businesses including caravan service operations have suffered through the Covid and many have had to make redundancies, or look for ways to cope with reduced income. Strategically the sale of spares and servicing items is usually a fairly lucrative affair, and for any business that might have previously absorbed the cost of service consumables into a service charge, the operating margins are now much tighter.

I'm not condoning what has been reported as happening, as it would seem that a number of less than satisfactory actions have taken place with the OP, but equally perhaps the OP's did not review the scope of the work included in the service cost before agreeing to it and his expectations were unrealistic.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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I can only refer to my two local Wiltshire dealers Prof so my comments are perhaps not global.
This was issued by my dealer back in June. Since then their workshop has been loaded to the gunnels with service, repairs and PDIs on all the new and used caravans sold.
Obviously their staff have taken extra precautions to protect their engineers. So in Wiltshire there is a strong argument our dealers have done very well this year. They have even offered me £10k for my used 12 year old Wyoming, £6500 less than when new!!
Servicing
Coronavirus Update.
Distancing Procedure. Available to any customer awaiting servicing, warranty or repair work. Please contact our Aftersales teams for further information.
  • Stay in your vehicle throughout the process.
  • We will unhook your caravan for you.
  • Pass us your keys.
  • Pre-pay on completion.
  • Drive in & collect without leaving your vehicle.
 
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Jun 16, 2020
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To be totally accurate I haven't said anything - I wrote it.....😎

I fundamentally disagree that in this case there has been an unclear contractual term. The OP asked the business to carry out a service. The business had information published about the cost of a service, and crucially they did not state that parts and consumables were included. There is no ambiguity, if parts and consumables are not included they will be charged on top of the basic service charge.

Whilst I appreciate the work required to perform a service on a caravan will be largely similar for all models, there are a number of uncertainties about the detail of the work required. Things like the make of chassis, single or twin axle, dual 7 pin electrics or single 13pin. for the running gear, Then any items inside the caravan with multiple manufacturers, e.g. Wet or Blown hot air heating, Dometic/Electrolux/Thetford fridges, Different makes of cooker hobs, etc. It would therefore be difficult for a business to offer a single price for a service, without over inflating the price to cover model variations.

Generally where a company does include some parts and consumables, they state it clearly along with any limitations, otherwise customers could not be charged for new tyres or pigtails if they needed to be changed.

As consumers we have to be vigilant to watch out for advertisers little tricks. In the example I gave above there is a weasel word "from" meaning the could charge almost whatever they liked.

Contrary to Dusty's comment about dealers being very busy, In terms of sales yes, but most service businesses including caravan service operations have suffered through the Covid and many have had to make redundancies, or look for ways to cope with reduced income. Strategically the sale of spares and servicing items is usually a fairly lucrative affair, and for any business that might have previously absorbed the cost of service consumables into a service charge, the operating margins are now much tighter.

I'm not condoning what has been reported as happening, as it would seem that a number of less than satisfactory actions have taken place with the OP, but equally perhaps the OP's did not review the scope of the work included in the service cost before agreeing to it and his expectations were unrealistic.
To be deliberately pedantic. I did not say (sorry write). That I disagreed with you. Simply that in my opinion, in the OP’s Case it was eminatly arguable. The company had already set their own president by having an inclusive policy for the previous two years.

John
 
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May 7, 2012
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I do agree. If the company changes the terms of the service anyone booking another one should be informed of the change and not have to check the rems of service again. That apart it is very bad customer service.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I do agree. If the company changes the terms of the service anyone booking another one should be informed of the change and not have to check the rems of service again. That apart it is very bad customer service.
I'm sorry Ray but I disagree.

Unless the work is part of a continuing service agreement for a number of years, each new job you ask a dealer to do is a new contract and will have its own relevant T&C's which you accept when you agree to have the work carried out.

I do agree it would be better if a company with longstanding customers has to make such a change it would be courteous to proactively warn customers of such a change, but they are not required to do so.

Even in your own professional world, insurers will make changes to a the terms and conditions of policies but they only become active at renewal. You cannot make a claim in year 2 or later and apply the T&C's from year 1.

Where a contract has been agreed sometime prior to the work being carried out, and in the mean time one or other of the parties to the contact wishes to or is forced to make changes to the contract or its terms, then they should advise the other party to either seek agreement of to cancel the contact. They can just change the T&C or the basis of the contract without seeking the other parties agreement.

In the OP's situation, if the contract was agreed in earlier in the year, and it was agreed to include consumables within the fixed price, the business cannot change the basis of that contract and simply expect the customer to accept it without question.

The problem here is the customer thought the quote was inclusive, but never sought confirmation before the work commenced. It always pays to check that nothing has changed before agreeing work like this.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Sorry Prof, I am more inclined to support Ray’s view. Yes a new service may be a new contract , written or verbal but like banks and Insurers it may also be seen as a renewal of an ongoing implied service schedule.Thus if my dealer decides to change the Ts&Cs previously enjoyed by me then it is encumber upon the Dealer to tell me before not after. In the same way it is a legal contractual requirement for your Insurer to tell you of all cover changes at each renewal. Also accepted Custom and Practice comes into the equation which again supports Ray’s point.
 
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May 7, 2012
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I understand what you are saying Prof, but the law has become far more customer orientated these days. I doubt that where a serviced is provided on an annual basis the provider can change the terms from last year without informing the customer. We do not have full details as to exactly how this was handled but I normally just ring to book a date and check the price. If they were changing the way of calculating this I would expect to be told, and if they did not they would surely be stuck with the old basis.
Unless they sent a confirmation with the new terms they are stuck with the old ones, but at £18 most people will pay up after a protest and go elsewhere if they can next year.
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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Dusty and Ray,

I'm sorry but I disagree with the concept that an annual service is a continuing agreement between you and a particular dealer. You may be able to just ring up and book a service with a company that you have used before and yes there is a degree of trust in so far that you have felt happy to ask them to do the work.

Some companies do value their customers and might seek to advise them of changes to their T&C's but fundamentally it is up to all customers to satisfy themselves about the T&C's before they agree a contract.

Having a service carried out is a very differnt matter and relationship to agreeing an insurance policy. With an insurance policy you normally contract for a 12month period, but for a service it is for just the period the work is carried out. So legally there is no ongoing contractual obligation between you and the service agent for the rest of the year. That is not a continuing schedule.

If you made an annual train trip, would you consider the rail company has an obligation to tell you personally about changes to their charging structure? No - you would have to look up their terms and conditions before you book your ticket.

Caveat Emptor.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I'm sorry Ray but I disagree.

Unless the work is part of a continuing service agreement for a number of years, each new job you ask a dealer to do is a new contract and will have its own relevant T&C's which you accept when you agree to have the work carried out.

I do agree it would be better if a company with longstanding customers has to make such a change it would be courteous to proactively warn customers of such a change, but they are not required to do so.

Even in your own professional world, insurers will make changes to a the terms and conditions of policies but they only become active at renewal. You cannot make a claim in year 2 or later and apply the T&C's from year 1.

Where a contract has been agreed sometime prior to the work being carried out, and in the mean time one or other of the parties to the contact wishes to or is forced to make changes to the contract or its terms, then they should advise the other party to either seek agreement of to cancel the contact. They can just change the T&C or the basis of the contract without seeking the other parties agreement.

In the OP's situation, if the contract was agreed in earlier in the year, and it was agreed to include consumables within the fixed price, the business cannot change the basis of that contract and simply expect the customer to accept it without question.

The problem here is the customer thought the quote was inclusive, but never sought confirmation before the work commenced. It always pays to check that nothing has changed before agreeing work like this.
I have checked with the legal team and the dealer is definitely in the wrong so it seems that maybe you are also incorrect with your view.
Not sure why you are so admamant about defending a dealer and then go to great lengths discusinjg why you are correct and every oen else is incorrect?
Ir now seems that I am not the only one that has been caught out with this scam by the dealer especially as all previous sevicess included the oil, grease, brae cleaner, 32mm ALKO flanges etc.
We were RIPPED off and there is not doubt about that, but we have learnt a valuable lesson and the delaer has lost out on any future servicing and also us using their campsite.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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I agree that you were ripped off but as to whether that was morally or legally or both is a question. In my opinion certainly morally that dealer is not dealing with their customers in a fair manner.

Legally though. I am still not with the prof, I think he is missing out on inferred/implied contractual terms. Which are, of course, binding. Therefore I believe you were ripped off on both accounts.

John
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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I have checked with the legal team and the dealer is definitely in the wrong so it seems that maybe you are also incorrect with your view.
Not sure why you are so admamant about defending a dealer and then go to great lengths discusinjg why you are correct and every oen else is incorrect?
Ir now seems that I am not the only one that has been caught out with this scam by the dealer especially as all previous sevicess included the oil, grease, brae cleaner, 32mm ALKO flanges etc.
We were RIPPED off and there is not doubt about that, but we have learnt a valuable lesson and the delaer has lost out on any future servicing and also us using their campsite.
I'm happy you had a result.

But you had two issues, One was being charged for work that was either impossible, or unnecessary, and teh second issue was whether consumables and parts were included in the quote or not.

It is clearly incorrect to be charged for impossible, or unnecessary work. That is fraud. and I do not cone it at all

The matter of Consumables or parts included or not in the Quote is down to understanding the dealers tariffs. And whilst you may have been caught out on this occasion, you are forewarned for the future.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I'm happy you had a result.

But you had two issues, One was being charged for work that was either impossible, or unnecessary, and teh second issue was whether consumables and parts were included in the quote or not.

It is clearly incorrect to be charged for impossible, or unnecessary work. That is fraud. and I do not cone it at all

The matter of Consumables or parts included or not in the Quote is down to understanding the dealers tariffs. And whilst you may have been caught out on this occasion, you are forewarned for the future.
I never said I had a result? I checked with a legal team and it seems that the general consensus was that the extras should never have been charged to us. Putting it behind us now and warning others on the Buccaneer forum.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I am very clear on my position in relation to the meaning of a "service" without further clarification, it is the labour charges to carry out a service. It dies not include parts unless the business defines what's included.

I will not debate this further on this thread. If you want more please start a new thread.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I am very clear on my position in relation to the meaning of a "service" without further clarification, it is the labour charges to carry out a service. It dies not include parts unless the business defines what's included.

I will not debate this further on this thread. If you want more please start a new thread.
In case you never noticed, I started this thread so not sure why you want me to open another thread?
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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I am very clear on my position in relation to the meaning of a "service" without further clarification, it is the labour charges to carry out a service. It dies not include parts unless the business defines what's included.

I will not debate this further on this thread. If you want more please start a new thread.
In case you never noticed, I started this thread so not sure why you want me to open another thread?
Again, a discussion in which different opinions have been aired has turned into a nit picking contest with antagonistic point scoring spoiling a forum discussion.
Ok, if people want to behave like schoolchildren I'll treat you as such.
This topic is locked.
 
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