Caravan servicing

[michaelmld]

I have read lots of forums in the past few weeks. In those forums are many advertising for servicing of a caravan. Although many of these traders are probably genuine I feel that a percentage of those tradesmen are taking advantage of some caravan owners, especially those just starting up. I will not go in to full servicing at this time but, I would like to give my opinion on those advertising the repair of a spongy floor.
The price to repair a floor is out of this world in many quotes given. Some even scare some caravan owners by saying a spongy floor is caused by damp.
A spongy floor does necessarily mean the floor is damp or rotten and your caravan is ready for scrap, far from it.
The biggest cause of a spongy floor is just use of the floor, walking on it. There are two most comment places found to be spongy. One is by the door where you enter the caravan. The second is by the cooking area.
A caravan floor is made of layers of ply wood glued together. Sometimes the layers come apart leaving small gaps between them. So when you walk on that part of the floor you are just pressing the unglued parts together. When walking on the floor you feel the floor sink a little then when you walk of that part of floor it raises again, that's why it's called a spongy floor, not necessarily means it is damp, just ware and tare. There are many traders advertising and saying what must be done to repair a floor, and many are making it sound like some sort of big operation. I have repaired a few floors for friends or helped and shown them how to do it. In my opinion it easy to repair a spongy floor and it does not take long. The longest part of the repair is leaving over night. That's my reason for not justifying the price some charge for such a repair. If anyone wishes more advice on how this is done I will be only too glad to help. By the way I am not advertising and I will not be asking for any payment. This is a good site where people are helping and advising others. This is how it should be. There are different groups of holiday makers but, I doubt that if you have ever got in trouble or needed help you will never find a better group than caravan owners.

 

[Damian]

I find your posting rather alarmist and somewhat misleading.
Having been a very well qualified caravan engineer for a lot of years I find the implication that owners are being taken advantage of a little difficult to accept, however as in all walks of life there are engineers and "engineers", but it is easy to check out an individual engineers qualifications who is a NCC Approved Workshop.

As far as spongy floors are concerned, delamination is the main culprit with damp being a secondary cause, but an engineer would determine which is the cause before any work is carried out,.

It is quite rare for a van to be deemed scrap or irrepairable due to a spongy floor, but it can happen.

The most common areas of delamination is in heavy wear areas, not just the two you have identified.
As for your comment " many are making it sound like some sort of big operation.", I have to disagree but will say that what owners are told is that it will entail two visits and being left overnight.
It is not a particularly difficult job but does require attention to detail and is quite time consuming, if done correctly, using the correct resins and making good afterwards.
A caravan engineer will also carry out the repair according to the van manufacturers specifications, not just a guess as to what may work or not.
Also an engineer has to guarantee his work for a minimum amount of time, something you do not have to do.

There is a wealth of information on repairing delaminated floors on the various forums and U Tube, and most caravan engineers would be happy to advise on repairs without doing them.

I think that you seem to forget that the costs involved using an engineer will always be higher than Joe Bloggs next door, but you are paying for his expertise and the considerable amount of training with manufacturers and equipment makers in order to give the best possible correct resolution to a problem.

 

[michaelmld]

Hi
I don't think my comment is misleading in anyway whatsoever. To be honest I do not think you have read my comment properly.
1. The entrance to a caravan and the cooking are the most common place for a spongy floor because those are the areas with most use.
2. My comments does not in any way whatsoever criticise a genuine engineer. I do criticise the person who does take advantage of a person who does not know about a spongy floor or any other parts of a van.
3. Some people do make it sound like a big operation. Some people will say that you have to put the caravan on stands or some sort of platform for the floor to sit on over night. With some materials that is so, but they do not inform of the alternative of the material that is used where there is no need for the van to be moved off it's wheels.
My comments are based on experience. I have owned a number of vans over the last 35 years or so. Like any person who owns a van they have heard all the stories about how a van owner can get ripped off.
Everyone will have their own opinion and I respect their opinions as I respect yours. People may disagree with what I say, like you, and that is also respected. All I ask is if you disagree with my comment that is acceptable, that is your choice, but please do not accuse me of misleading anyone. What I say is a fact of life and I am afraid that caravan repairs and parts, in my opinion, are among the highest unnecessary priced market, or at least getting there.

 

[Damian]

Thanks for your reply and to take a few points to try and clear up.

In your first post you state "A caravan floor is made of layers of ply wood glued together".

This is not actually correct, a caravan floor is one layer of plywood on the top, a sandwich of insulating foam and a bottom layer of weatherproof plywood and it is the loss of bonding between the top layer and foam that causes delamination in most cases.

In your second posting you state " Some people will say that you have to put the caravan on stands or some sort of platform for the floor to sit on over night."

This may well be the case if the owner or service agent does the repair from underneath the van rather than from the top, in which case unless one is very thin in build it is almost impossible to get access to the underfloor AND use the injector without raising the van .

You also state " they do not inform of the alternative of the material that is used "

There is NO alternative material to use other than the correct item for a caravan engineer working to the manufacturers requirements.

Lastly you state " I am afraid that caravan repairs and parts, in my opinion, are among the highest unnecessary priced market, or at least getting there. "

I actually do agree in part with your comment, servicing and parts are expensive but that is due to a number of things outside the engineers control.

First is the lack of space to work on items in a van, as an example a modification to a certain water heater actually only takes 5 minutes to do, but to get at the heater involves 6 hours of removing most of the kitchen area to get at the boiler, then putting it all back, another 6 hours, so please don't blame an engineer for the design and placement of items.

In the past I have had to spend many hours upside down in a wardrobe to do what essentially would have taken minutes if the item was more accessable.

As for parts prices, that is down to small volume manufacturing and as with all small volume item they cost more than mass manufactured items, again out of the engineers control.

 

[michaelmld]

Hi
I can see what you are saying about the floor but, the reason to place the van on jacks or platforms is not only because of working underneath it is done because the way and material used requires the floor to be kept pressed together to complete the job. An alternative solution is that the floor does not require any such pressure. There is more than one solution. One needs pressure and the other does not.
I agree that some 5 minuet jobs seem to take hours for various reasons. You seem to still think I am criticising the genuine engineer, I am not, I am criticising anyone who takes advantage of other people. It goes in all walks of life.
I am not saying all prices are the responsibility of an engineer. It seems that anything to do with a caravan seems to have a high price and still rising.
How many time have you seen an item in a caravan outlet at a price that could be purchased from a none caravan specialised outlet at a much lower price. This can even go the down the path of ground rent. Work out the yearly percentage of rent rises. One of the biggest profit making is a site that sell a static caravan. Once sold they love it when the owner sells it again. The unnoticed what goes on in that department is unbelievable.
I thank you for talking about this as a discussion and difference of opinions and not an argument as such.
.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Michael,
I do tend to agree that some parts for caravans do seem over priced. There are some items sold which are marked up as for caravans, but infact are exactly the same as those sold for normal domestic or industrial use.
But don't be fooled because in quite few cases, (and for whatever reason) caravan manufacturers may choose to ignore a standard component and design and manufacture a bespoke product of their own. Now in some cases they are forced to do that because regulations may make the standard off the shelf component inadmissible, They might choose to produce lightweight version for weight saving, but sometimes it is purely for aesthetic or corporate image reasons.

As Damain has alluded, caravan production runs are very small compared to most domestic product runs, so that will cause production costs to rise compared to the mass market products. There is also the "tied market" where being the sole supplier of a product allows a premium price to be charged. Most companies make substantially more profit on after sale spare parts than the same part in general production, but then you also have to consider the fact that almost regardless of the size of an order the administration costs of handling spares order or a whole caravan are virtually identical, so prices need to higher to help offset the admin costs.

This is not unique to caravans, on a similar scale to caravans look at the marine market. and on an industrial scale look at aerospace, where exactly the same nut and bolt may be supplied but because it needs to have highly traceable origins, and manufacturing process control, the costs do mount up.

From time to time we do hear reports of dealers and services which seem to be less than ideal, and it almost inevitable in an unregulated industry that some rouge traders will be found, but in general the majority of dealers and service/repareres do care about what they do, and do offer a genuine service to customers.

 

[Dustydog]

An Alko one shot 2051 nut ranges from £3.79 to £6.50 .
Yes it it essential.

Most cars have the same type of nut on the driven axle. You don' t hear complaints there?
BUT who says it is expensive? A high tensile steel alloy nut with nylon type insert that is designed to "stretch" to a degree on torquing up. A very accurate piece of safety crucial engineering. Not just another nut ?

 

[DeliDave_]

The 3 port valve that selects aquaroll or onboard tank failed on my Senator over the winter,on the Bailey website its listed at £48.44 +£6.00 postage
https://www.bailey-parts.co.uk/Product.aspx?PartNumber=1030149

Got the same valve minus the 1/2" to 12mm fittings for £18 inc delivery from Caktanks.

That seems an excessive profit to me bearing in mind Caktanks havent gone bankrupt so they must be still making a profit

 

[Damian]

I actually felt very embarrassed at times when telling a customer the price of some replacement parts, and could not think how the prices were arrived at.

I still cannot understand how a fridge for a caravan can cost anything from £800 to £1500??? WHY???
I also cannot understand how a back panel can cost £5000???????

As for one shot nuts, a lot of places are making a big profit on them, as the more they buy , the cheaper they get them for, so anything over about £3 is not necessary and some unscrupulous people use cheap Chinese import nuts which look similar but are far from being any good. (Genuine Al-Ko nuts have Al-Ko stamped on them, ones with just a number are imports !!!!!)

I am glad that I have retired from the business and do not have to tell people that the new plastic tap they need is going to cost anything from £60 to £150.

However, the caravan business is mirrored in all the leisure industry outlets, ask for anything Marine and expect to take out a second mortgage to get it.
As was told to me by a marine chandlers one day, BOAT actually does not mean a form of leisure vehicle, it means Break Out Another Thousand.
Sadly this is echoed in the caravan sector.

I will say though, find a good service agent, fixed or mobile, and the cost of a service is very good value.

 

[DeliDave_]

As was told to me by a marine chandlers one day, BOAT actually does not mean a form of leisure vehicle, it means Break Out Another Thousand.

How do you make a small fortune from boating : Start with a large one

 

[Spurtle]

I am fortunate enough to work across the caravan/motorhome and boat sectors.

At least that affords me the luxury of being able to pacify caravan and motorhome customers who are a bit put out by the prices of some spares, by showing them how much some quite similar components would cost if marketed for marine use

All I need to do now is to sell our boat and I won't feel anything like as many stabs of pain