Carolina tug-Mondeo Estate or S-Max, confused .com!

[philip_5109302]

Hi we're looking to upgrade to a Bailey Carolina MTPLM 1759Kgs, I think the 2.0 Tdci manual S-Max Zetec will tow 1750Kgs and the new Mondeo Estate Titanium X 2.0 Tdci manual can tow 1800kgs, can somebody cleverer than I confirm if we can pull this monster with either legally please (Lutz, are you out there)?

many thanks in anticipation!

 

[RichardS1]

Not sure of the kerbweight of the S-Max, but even though the Mondeo can legally tow the Carolina with a max tow of 1800kg you will be towing at over 100% of the cars kerbweight which is a no go area with a high sided trailer.

 

[Garfield]

Hi

We tow a 1600 kg mtplm van with an S-max, I would not expect you to have any problems stability wise with the S-max but much as I would rather poke sharp needles in my eyes than drive a 4x4, traction will be an issue with a caravan that heavy, we have to be very gentle with the accelerator pulling out of junctions even on dry tarmac, flat wet grass is manageable but as soon as there is much of a slope on wet grass we need to don the snowchains.

We chose a caravan to suit our car rather than the other way, we looked at an older Carolina and others such as the Amara twin axle but opted for a Lunar as its MIRO was 100kg lighter than other vans of the same size.

 

[Dustydog]

"but much as I would rather poke sharp needles in my eyes than drive a 4x4.."

Garfield,

Why do you say that?

My 4x4 is my personal choice. It tows my Wyoming with ease. I am way below 85% on weights.

I pay the appropriate car tax to the Treasury.

I pay the full cost per litre of diesel used.

I ride in comfort with better views than most as I sit higher.

The thought of getting stuck on the grass, churning it up and upsetting the Wardens doesn't seem a good idea to me.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Del_374232870]

I have in the past towed 100% car weight, this was due to finnances not being available to upgrade the tow car . All was well most of the time until the van waged its tail then it could become frightening. The final straw was a calm day on the M25 near heathrow, traffic moving nicely (unusual) and trundling along in the inside lane at 50mph just gone under a bridge then suddenly the van wag its tail (no passing coaches or vans etc), what followed was a white knuckle ride that seemed to last for an eternity (in reality several seconds) the van took control of the car andit was a matter of holding onto the steering wheel with all my strength to keep the car in a straight line, whilst all the time the van was trying to pull the rear of the car lest and right. The van seemed to have increased to 12ft in width as all I could seen in both door mirrors was this white pendulum and there was this terrifying thudding noise. Fortunatley we managed to stop in one peace with the car and caravan intact (trousers were another issue). The van was not used again until a heavier car was purchased and even then it took a while to regain confidence. What caused the snake, only thing I could find was tyre pressure on the nearside of the van was 5lbs lower than the offside, that possibly added to ruts in the inside and the possibility of a side wind as I went under the bridge.

We know tow 1700kg with a 4x4 which is around a 70% match, no stability problems, yea there are times when conditions will make the van wag its tail but the tow car is heavy enough to immediatley bring it back into line.

I am not saying that you cant get a snake with a well matched outfit.

With over 20 years of towing experience, all year round in most conditions, would I go back to a 100% outfit ? No way. As for the 4x4 its my (legal) choice.

 

[Thorpedo]

Well said Del, good post, I hope some of the people who advocate towing 100% or more listen to your experience.

I doesn't matter how many miles you do without a problem it's when a problem occurs you need to be as safe as possible.

I tow a Louisiana (1700+ kg) with a Kia people carrier which gives 70% ish.

Interesting you refer to the problem occuring as you went under a bridge, I saw a very serious snake this year as a caravan went under a motorway bridge without any other apparent contributers. I wondered if the bridge suddenly protected the van from a side wind causing the start of the snake.

 

[RichardS1]

Good posts guys, if you want to tow a big twin wheeler a large people carrier or 4x4 has to be the way to go.

 

[g_374369443]

I believe the advice being given on this thread to be very useful and help full too.

Although I am a little mystified to the fact so many UK vans do not have proper suspension,something the Germans seem to think is a necessity if you are going to tow at 60 mph,and indeed they have longer A frames too, again giving better stability than the shorter ones still used here!

So which is safer? A 100% match of a German caravan or an 80% match of a typical British van to a 4x4?

I cannot say I know the answer for sure but clearly its not as straight forward as some would have you believe... be safe.

 

[Del_374232870]

Wouldnt want to say which (if any) is safer, and definatley wouldnt want to tow 100% . As I said the problem is if the van is equal to or heavier than the car and it wags its tail, then there is a high risk of the van taking control of the car rather than the other way around. When a van wags its tail the energy is passed tio the tow vehicle , if the cars weight exceeds the vans then it is wuickly controlled, if not the pendulum effect can get worse then there is the chance of the van overturning and possibly taking the car with it.

 

[MAM]

Back to the original question...

I've had a Mondeo and now an S-Max (with an E-class in between) and the S-max feels the better of all three.

 

[g_374369443]

Of course I do agree with you Del .

The point I was making is a comparison along the lines of wet grass 2wd and 4wd, where you would assume in the same conditions the 4wd would have greater traction.

so in the same way, conditions/speed ect, the longer A frame would respond far better than the shorter one also aided by better suspension too. and so would not snake all things being equal.

Indeed it could cope better so conditions would have to be worse in the first place to induce the same type of snake..

 

[Lutz]

Getting back to the original question, yes, both would be legal although whether it is advisable is another story.

I am a bit surprised, however, at Del's comment "what followed was a white knuckle ride that seemed to last for an eternity (in reality several seconds)" and to use that as justification for observing 85% weight ratio. Actually, a snake can be recovered a lot quicker by determined braking. I therefore don't subscribe to the very black and white distinction that is often made. I see the range 85% to 100% to be a grey area with a gradual transition from white to black. Over 100% is, however, always going to be a handful to keep under control in all but ideal conditions.

Besides, the weight ratio is based on an extremely unfavourable condition (car in the lightest possible condition towing a fully laden caravan), something which few people encounter very often in practice.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hi phiip i totally agree with del on this. i have a 57 plate hyundai santa fe 7 cdx auto, i tow a 08 wyoming towing at 89%.

i wouldnt go any higher than that.

jo-anne

 

[philip_5109302]

Back to the original question...

I've had a Mondeo and now an S-Max (with an E-class in between) and the S-max feels the better of all three.

Whilst my thsnks go out to everyone for informed and in the main, subjective comments. I am encouraged to leaarn that the S-max is seen, at least by Mam, to be the better of the two vehicles, (my original question)and I now have to think very seriously whether or not to tow at 100% or not, my feeling at the moment is to get the S-max and give it a try seeing as the kerbweight is 1743kgs.

My thanks to all who responded!

 

[Del_374232870]

I can only quote from my own experience, and it is something that I never wish to encounter again .