OK, so if the kerbweight of your car is 1493kg, as you say in an earlier post, then your weight ratio is 1300/1493 = 87%.
Hello Jim,
I think there is still some confusion.
By your own figures the caravans MPTLM is 1300Kg and the MIRO is 1103Kg leaving a payload of 197Kg. You cannot arbitrarily increase the pay load because it will exceed the MTPLM for the caravan which is a legal maximum.
So you have 197 not 200Kg. I know that 3kg is not much different but you have to also consider that the caravan MIRO may be higher than you think. This can be down to a combination of tolerances on manufactured items, and the amount of moisture the caravan may be loaded with and any OEM extras.
As Lutz correctly states, the towing ratio that is used always uses the kerbweight of the car and the MTPLM of the trailer, so it is always a theoretical figure, but it is a base line to allow comparisons. This means the normally quoted towing ratio is independent of how you actually load the car and caravan, but it does describe the worst case scenario.
Whether by choice or just good luck, you have managed to put together an outfit that produces a ratio of 87% not 83%as you originally stated.
With reference to my earlier post suggesting putting the bikes in the caravan, you may still do that provided the caravans MTPLM is not exceeded.
Incidentally I sense from your opening post that you did not wish to increase the caravan's weight. On the whole that is a sensible approach, but if it was anything to do with often quoted 85% ratio, then rest assured, it is not a legal requirement, and if you have a good towing characteristic at 83% (your figure) then the additional weight of the bikes is unlikely to take you into unstable territory.
I think there is still some confusion.
By your own figures the caravans MPTLM is 1300Kg and the MIRO is 1103Kg leaving a payload of 197Kg. You cannot arbitrarily increase the pay load because it will exceed the MTPLM for the caravan which is a legal maximum.
So you have 197 not 200Kg. I know that 3kg is not much different but you have to also consider that the caravan MIRO may be higher than you think. This can be down to a combination of tolerances on manufactured items, and the amount of moisture the caravan may be loaded with and any OEM extras.
As Lutz correctly states, the towing ratio that is used always uses the kerbweight of the car and the MTPLM of the trailer, so it is always a theoretical figure, but it is a base line to allow comparisons. This means the normally quoted towing ratio is independent of how you actually load the car and caravan, but it does describe the worst case scenario.
Whether by choice or just good luck, you have managed to put together an outfit that produces a ratio of 87% not 83%as you originally stated.
With reference to my earlier post suggesting putting the bikes in the caravan, you may still do that provided the caravans MTPLM is not exceeded.
Incidentally I sense from your opening post that you did not wish to increase the caravan's weight. On the whole that is a sensible approach, but if it was anything to do with often quoted 85% ratio, then rest assured, it is not a legal requirement, and if you have a good towing characteristic at 83% (your figure) then the additional weight of the bikes is unlikely to take you into unstable territory.
I apologise if I am being pedantic, but 145 kg seems awfully good for the average couple. You are not naturists are you, and clothes are not necessary???
You mention battery, well that is 20 kg for starters, water and waste bottles do weigh something and all your cooking items and crockery will probably amount to another 10-15 kg, bedding possibly another 10 kg and then there are clothes. One trolley load from ASDA will be another 15-20 kg. You mention porch awning but I am unsure if that is car or van.
Anyway, looking at what we carry just for 2 of us and we can easily get well over 200 kg and that is trying to be as careful as we can. Fortunately we have a payload of 270 kg, but it sure gets close at times, and that is without bikes, and we do not have TV.
Anyway, if you have done your sums then you know what you can safely do. What you could do is put everything in, and then go to the weighbridge and see what you have. That will then take into account any discrepancies in your MIRO.
You mention battery, well that is 20 kg for starters, water and waste bottles do weigh something and all your cooking items and crockery will probably amount to another 10-15 kg, bedding possibly another 10 kg and then there are clothes. One trolley load from ASDA will be another 15-20 kg. You mention porch awning but I am unsure if that is car or van.
Anyway, looking at what we carry just for 2 of us and we can easily get well over 200 kg and that is trying to be as careful as we can. Fortunately we have a payload of 270 kg, but it sure gets close at times, and that is without bikes, and we do not have TV.
Anyway, if you have done your sums then you know what you can safely do. What you could do is put everything in, and then go to the weighbridge and see what you have. That will then take into account any discrepancies in your MIRO.
Don't mind being corrected when i am incorrect but if posters actually read the topic from the start some of the confusion on your behalf would have been alleviated.
No good luck involved and no confusion on my behalf , as i stated at the beginning of the topic i have had the outfit over a weighbridge so figures are bang on and not theoretical.
Car 1493kg van loaded with our standard kit 1251kg giving me a current car to van ratio of 83.79% as I originally stated
TV , awning and any shopping is carried in the car.
No good luck involved and no confusion on my behalf , as i stated at the beginning of the topic i have had the outfit over a weighbridge so figures are bang on and not theoretical.
Car 1493kg van loaded with our standard kit 1251kg giving me a current car to van ratio of 83.79% as I originally stated
TV , awning and any shopping is carried in the car.
Jim, I think you are still confusing weight ratios. No matter how much you put in the car or how little you have in the caravan, your weight ratio is always 87%. As John L already pointed out, weight ratio is always based on a theoretical worst case. The actual figure of 83.79% is meaningless because it cannot be compared with the 85% recommendation and it doesn't tell you whether the outfit is safe or not. It is just a number.
As you feel you have done all your sums, then you know best.
I must admit if I told my wife she had to empty the fridge and all the food cupboards before we set off, I would get a flea in my ear, and as for the outside furniture that is under the bed??? Plus we have to evidently carry extra toiletries as these are very expensive in France, so I just smile, and slip a bottle or two of wine into the locker.
One way you could get extra weight though is to use only 1 gas bottle if you currently have a dual set up. Unfortunately, you have a UK van with the short A frame so putting the bikes there is not an option that can be available with the longer A frame.
I must admit if I told my wife she had to empty the fridge and all the food cupboards before we set off, I would get a flea in my ear, and as for the outside furniture that is under the bed??? Plus we have to evidently carry extra toiletries as these are very expensive in France, so I just smile, and slip a bottle or two of wine into the locker.
One way you could get extra weight though is to use only 1 gas bottle if you currently have a dual set up. Unfortunately, you have a UK van with the short A frame so putting the bikes there is not an option that can be available with the longer A frame.
Hi Ray
I have a Fiamma Universal rack that can either be attached at the top to a rear awning rail if you have one or bolts through the wall and the bottom fastens screwed upwards to the caravan floor.In my case with the top awning rail fitting it means no holes through the wall
Cost
Hi, Actually looked on here about something else and couldnt believe when i saw your post.We have a 1.9 GT TDi Golf, had it from new and still low milage but are about to change it as cant find any decent sized caravans we thought we could tow, i see you tow a 5 berth bailey, can you let me know your thoughts on it as a tow car, ours is so economical we are lothed to part with it but were considering a 2.0 audi estate, Vicki
We have a hydrolic roof mounted carrier which easily lifts our audax tandem onto the roof of the CRV without any hassle. Seeing as you have such a unusually good ratio between car and caravan, why mess it up by adding extra weight to the caravan?
As the weight ratio is based on the caravan's MTPLM and that musn't be exceeded whether it is carrying bikes or not, they have no effect on the ratio and don't "mess it up".
Hi Lutz
I was refering to the fact that in this particular case, the caravan / car ratio seems to have hit on being absolutely superb rather than the theoretical ratio. I agree that, in theory, adding bicycles to a caravan which is below the maximum shouldn't be a problem but I'm a great believer that if something works like a dream and there isn't the need, then perhaps it shouldn't be messed with. This is only based on my experience though and there are probably as many different experiences as there are caravanners.
Denise
I was refering to the fact that in this particular case, the caravan / car ratio seems to have hit on being absolutely superb rather than the theoretical ratio. I agree that, in theory, adding bicycles to a caravan which is below the maximum shouldn't be a problem but I'm a great believer that if something works like a dream and there isn't the need, then perhaps it shouldn't be messed with. This is only based on my experience though and there are probably as many different experiences as there are caravanners.
Denise
I know dealers always work on the MTPLM when calculating ratios, but if you read the caravan club recommendations, the 85% and 100% recommendations are based on the actual loaded weight of the caravan.
Check if you don't believe me.
Check if you don't believe me.
The same seems to apply to the C&CC too.
http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/faqs/topic-42/technical-matching-car-and-caravan
The Club recommend, for safety and stability, that the LADEN WEIGHT of caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car. However, it is important that this figure does not exceed the car manufacturer's towing limit, nor should it give rise to your outfit exceeding the plated train weight of the vehicle. (my capitals)
http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/faqs/topic-42/technical-matching-car-and-caravan
The Club recommend, for safety and stability, that the LADEN WEIGHT of caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car. However, it is important that this figure does not exceed the car manufacturer's towing limit, nor should it give rise to your outfit exceeding the plated train weight of the vehicle. (my capitals)
The CC wording is:
As a general rule, you need to ensure that the car is significantly heavier than the caravan, in order to minimise the risk of caravan instability at higher speeds. The Club recommends that the loaded weight of the caravan should ideally not exceed 85% of the car's kerbweight.
No mention of MTPLM
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