Challenger 640 2016 cracked GRP

[andyrmanc]

Hi All,

We took delivery of our new Challenger 640 2016 at the beginning of the month and on our 2nd trip away last weekend I spotted a crack and some crazing in the front GRP panel (how do you attach photo's?). We have to take the caravan in for inspection at the dealers next Tuesday.
I am in the process of trying to get the caravan replaced as we have only had it just over 2 weeks and I do not think it is acceptable to have to accept a repair or having to send it back to the factory for a complete new front panel with all the risks of additional problems that may bring. Swift are insisting that they will only offer a repair or new front panel.
To make matters worse I am being told that there are no more 640's available (at least until the 2017 models come out).
I would like to gauge peoples opinion on this (dangerous I know ;-) ). Am I being unreasonable in refusing to have the repair and insisting on a replacement?

Cheers

 

[Parksy]

Click Here for a guide on how to post photos to this website.

 

[andyrmanc]

Thanks Parksy,

Photos attached hopefully

 

[Sproket]

Thanks Parksy,

Photos attached hopefully

I have made your photos bigger to get a closer look at these cracks hmy:
complete front end required IMO

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

You need to remove http:// from the link box before pasting the link.

 

[Dustydog]

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act#repair-or-replace
Hi Andy
See the above link in particular the 30 day right to reject the item for a full refund.
You may well be the first on here to succeed.
How did you finance your purchase?
Draft letter ASAP to the dealers MD setting out full details why you reject the caravan and want all your money back. It is the dealer with whom you have your contract of purchase.
If you used a finance company copy the letter to them and tell them they too have a legal responsibility to you for a full refund .
Once you go passed 30 days it gets harder and the remedies whilst there are more drawn out.
Please let us know how you get on.
I aasume the damage is not accidental and caused by you ?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm sorry to read of your problem or should I say your sellers problem because Dusty has correctly pointed out the first steps.

If however you have exceeded the 30 day limit for an unopposed full refund for faulty goods under the Consumer Rights Act 2015,(CRA) then the next stage is the seller can offer a once only repair. If the repair is unsuccessful, then again the CRA stipulates that a refund must be offered BUT the refund may be reduced inconsideration of the use you have had of the goods.

The manufacturer has no part in these arrangements, and their opinion should not dictate the outcome. The dealer may wish to send the caravan to the manufacturer for repairs, but be clear; in this situation the manufacture is contracted to the seller as a subcontractor, and cannot dictate the process you follow.

Another important detail. By bring this action unde the CRA, the seller is obliged not to inconvenience you, so they should either collect and return the caravan to you, or a least cover your genuine costs you incur in facilitating their remedial actions.

Do check out this web site
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

And if you are unsure about anything, you may need to speak to a professional

 

[andyrmanc]

Hi Folks and thanks for your help and advice.
We are still within the 30 days period as we collected our caravan on the 1st July. We are taking the caravan to the dealers next Tuesday for their inspection and to enable them to send a report to Swift. We will be issuing them with our rejection letter there and then. The dealer has been made aware of this fact.
The deal was financed as trade in plus cash and no the damage is not accidental or self inflicted.
We have asked for a like for like replacement in the first instance but if that is not possible due to lack of availability then a 100% refund is our second choice. A number of dealers are still showing availability online so we may have to travel further afield to source our replacement. Our other option albeit not preferred will be to wait until the 2017 models appear but this would mean cancelling our summer holidays as I am sure we will not be able to continue to use the caravan once we have issued our rejection.
Cheers
Andy

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

A number of dealers are still showing availability online so we may have to travel further afield to source our replacement.

Remember that with any new purchase the contract is with the selling dealer. Any warranty issues will be with this dealer in the first instance rather than your local dealer. When we bought our current caravan from a distant dealer we pre-arranged that our local dealer would take on support of the van. Now had it over 4 years and still get very good support from the local dealer. They've recently fitted a new front panel under warranty. They are, of course, part of the Approved Workshop Scheme.

 

[paws]

Hi andyrmanc,
Just a word to the wise....

If you have powerful and compelling reasons for delaying the issue of your "rejection letter" for another week (or until your visit to the vendor next Tuesday) then the advantages of this delay may need to be compared with the potential disadvantages...

If you are considering merely "handing over the letter" to them then you will need to consider how best to obtain a receipt for the letter from an authorised signatory of the vendor...... (it is not unknown that even in the best run dealerships, letters can go astray, get misfiled, inadvertently shredded or just overlooked etc., changes of staff at the dealerships happen from time to time..... )and at a later date you may have to prove that you rejected your caravan on (or before a certain date) .

As a back up to your "rejection strategy" ( or even as a fundamental part of it, it might well be worthwhile you considering issuing the letter correctly dated, now today by recorded (signed for delivery) and keeping the receipt safely, amplifying anything further by handing over another letter if you feel this necessary next Tuesday. ( get another receipt for it!)

As always of course, its your call, but do weigh up carefully the advantages as you see them of delaying the rejection further.
Regards and of course Happy Caravanning
paws

 

[andyrmanc]

Hi Paws the only reason for leaving it until next Tuesday was because this is the earliest we can get the caravan back to dealers. I take your point on sending a registered letter now and I will certainly have a think about it.

Thanks

Andy

 

[Raywood]

I agree with the advice given so far. To prove receipt of the written rejection use registered post. Draft letters can be found on the Citizens advice website and they also have a good telephone helpline.
If you are a member of either of the big clubs they have a legal helpline that you can get help from as an alternative to Citizens Advice and you may also find you get one with your household insurance policy and trade union if you are a member of one.
A cracked front panel after two weeks is simply not acceptable and shows the state of quality control in the caravan industry.

 

[andyrmanc]

Formal rejection letter now sent via email and post.

 

[DaveA1]

What was the result on Tuesday??

 

[andyrmanc]

Hi Dave,

It's next Tuesday I'm afraid. We are still waiting on a reply from the dealers since I sent them the rejection letter. I have phoned the Caravan Club legal help line today and they have confirmed that our position is correct and we should get our full money back. We do not have to accept our old caravan back as part of the settlement so the full amount should be in cash. They also recommended contacting our legal assistance through our house insurance to pre-empt any awkwardness from the dealer.
Looks like our summer holiday plans are going down the pan also, as we cannot use the caravan now we have rejected it. If we had waited until after our holidays the 30 day rule would have been exceeded. We are bringing it back from it's site on Saturday :-( ready to deliver back to the dealer on Tuesday hopefully. We wanted to do it on Saturday but they will not accept it back until / if they have accepted the rejection.

Stressed

Andy

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Andy

How did you finance the purchase?
If you used your credit card or a finance company you will also have recourse to them for this failure. Send them a copy of your original letter to the Dealer demanding they give you all assistance to make a full refund. They know the Consumer Laws as well if not better than the Dealer.
Never mind what the Dealer says about rejection . Just be certain you take the caravan back to their premises before the 30 days expires. Dirty tricks and all that

 

[andyrmanc]

Hi Dustydog,

It was purchased via px and cash so no HP involved. As I mentioned we will be dropping the caravan off on Tuesday 26th so well within the 30 days. We will be doing this with or without their acceptance. Bringing the caravan back to storage tomorrow and starting the horrible job of emptying our bits.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Andy

Please remember the point I made earlier, Where goods are faulty, it is the responsibility of the seller to inconvenience customers as little as possible. You could insist the seller recovered caravan, without you having to take it to them. Or at least tell them you will be charging the seller for the expenses you have incurred directly to facilitate the recovery of the faulty goods.

Somebody wrote higher up the thread, this will be a first test of the CRA in connection with caravans, But I recall another thread where the customer was in fact successful in rejecting a caravan under the CRA, So you can take heart in that your not the first, and there is precedence to support your course of action.

 

[andyrmanc]

Cheers ProfJohnL,

I will definitely be making sure I am not out of pocket. We would have to go to storage to let the dealer get access and the distance to the dealer is not far from storage so we will take the caravan back ourselves to ensure no "extra" damage occurs.
It's good to hear there is a precedence set.
This whole episode following on from our previous 2005 - 2008 dispute has led us to wonder whether this whole caravanning lark is really worth it :-(
We love our caravan holidays and short breaks away, but the hassle and baggage that comes with it is beginning to wear thin.

Andy

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oh! and one other point.

Insist on all offers and communications being in some written form, so there can be no doubt about the sequence of events, Who agreed to what etc. IF you have a verbal contact, then make sure you know who you spoke to, and what the outcome was. A good written record of events is a wonderful aid to pursuing such claims.

 

[Gafferbill]

Formal rejection letter now sent via email and post.

Andy...........I don't have any expertise on these matters.

However I do know that emails are now accepted as legal forms of communication and also as legal proof that communication has taken place. They are a good digital back up to the written word and automatically record the sequence of events.

 

[Raywood]

I agree that e mails area accepted by the courts now and have been for some time. Solicitors have been using them for conveyancing for many years as far quicker. It still helps to use registered post as a back up though.

 

[Twodogs2]

Hi just wondering any update on your problem or have they told you not to post on any forum?

 

[Dustydog]

Hi just wondering any update on your problem or have they told you not to post on any forum?

. A gagging order :woohoo:

 

[andyrmanc]

Hi All,

Here is a quick update on where we stand at present with our 640.
We took the caravan back to the dealers for them to assess the problem and they assure us that the cracks are purely in the gel coat and not cracks all the way through the GRP.
We took legal advice with regards a full rejection (both Caravan Club and DAS ) and basically we could have a full refund of the cash we paid plus our old caravan back and this was offered in full by the dealer without argument. If we wanted a full cash refund i.e. not taking our old caravan back then that would probably have ended up in court with the court deciding what is reasonable. The law states that the consumer should be put back to the state they were prior to the sale and also that the seller is not placed at a disadvantage either (I am paraphrasing here). Obviously if we wanted the cash equivalent of our px then the dealer would have to stump up that cash and would therefore be at a disadvantage. The other issue which was affecting our decision was that the 2016 640 was no longer available from Swift and only a few dealers in the UK were showing stock and some of them did not include Alde heating. There was no guarantee at the time that the 640 would be available in 2017 and this was the layout we wanted. As it has turned out it isn't available as a Challenger in 2017 and has dropped into the Sprite class.
So the top and bottom of it is we have opted for the repair and hope this will be the end of it. The dealer is sending photo evidence of the repair at all stages to hopefully alleviate our concerns of a more major crack. We have got the layout we want and would have lost it if we had pursued it through the courts.

Regards

Andy