Citroen C4 Picasso 1.6

[wildtraks]

Hi does anyone have experience in towing with a Citroen C4 Picasso Exclusive 1.6 blue hdi EAT6 120bhp
Say max towing is 1600 so would be looking at a van less than 1300mtlp

 

[ProfJohnL]

Do be careful and check your figures, because Citroen and some other car manufacturers do massage their maximum permitted towed weight figures on some models. The figure they sometimes publish in their hand books, is the maximum towed weight figure for when the car only has the driver and no other people or any luggage in the car. A totally unrealistic situation for a caravanner.

The most important factors are the Gross Train Weight (GTW) and the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) limits of the car. These are both stamped on the cars data plate usually fixed to one of the "B" pillars in the car. These are legal static weight limits and must never be exceeded.

By subtracting the GVW from the GTW you will get the legal maximum towed weight for when the car is fully loaded. This is a far better maximum value for the legal maximum towed weight limit for the car.

However it is widely accepted that due to shape and size of caravans, they are considered to be far more challenging than their weight alone suggests. For that reason it is recommended that novice UK caravanner's should choose a caravan with an MTPLM that does not exceed 85% of the tow vehicles "Kerbweight " provided this does not exceed the cars legal weight limits in any way.

 

[wildtraks]

I don’t actually have the car but I know it’s minimum kerb weight is 1325kg and gross vehicle weight is 1975kg book says max braked towing is 1600kg

 

[Buckman]

I don’t actually have the car but I know it’s minimum kerb weight is 1325kg and gross vehicle weight is 1975kg book says max braked towing is 1600kg

Going by the guideline of 85% of kerbweight that is giving an figure of 1126 kg for the caravan. Although the car cna legally tow up to 1600kg many caravan insurers have a clause stating that if the caravan exceeds 95% of the car's kerbweight, they will not pay out. At 95% that is 1258kg maximum for a caravan.

 

[otherclive]

Going by the guideline of 85% of kerbweight that is giving an figure of 1126 kg for the caravan. Although the car cna legally tow up to 1600kg many caravan insurers have a clause stating that if the caravan exceeds 95% of the car's kerbweight, they will not pay out. At 95% that is 1258kg maximum for a caravan.

I’ve never seen any percentage weight restrictions applied by my caravan insurers. I’ve used CMHC, CCC, Saga and Caravan guard. Is this a new stipulation?

 

[RogerL]

I’ve never seen any percentage weight restrictions applied by my caravan insurers. I’ve used CMHC, CCC, Saga and Caravan guard. Is this a new stipulation?

Certainly, some insurers impose a limit of 100% of kerbweight - without specifying exactly how kerbweight is calculated or defined which makes it difficult to enforce. It's not a restriction I worry about as I now tow at a very low % Towing Ratio, although one outfit previously was 97%.

 

[Buckman]

I’ve never seen any percentage weight restrictions applied by my caravan insurers. I’ve used CMHC, CCC, Saga and Caravan guard. Is this a new stipulation?

Been around for sometime. We had it on our Towergate policy.

 

[otherclive]

Certainly, some insurers impose a limit of 100% of kerbweight - without specifying exactly how kerbweight is calculated or defined which makes it difficult to enforce. It's not a restriction I worry about as I now tow at a very low % Towing Ratio, although one outfit previously was 97%.

There were a substantial number of posts a while back trying to reconcile this question of kerb weight and its legal status, or non-legal status. Lutz gave some valuable insights regarding kerb weight and Mass in Service too.

 

[Buckman]

There were a substantial number of posts a while back trying to reconcile this question of kerb weight and its legal status, or non-legal status. Lutz gave some valuable insights regarding kerb weight and Mass in Service too.

Even if the car is perfectly legal towing a caravan heavier than its own kerbweight the insurer can add that sort of clause into their T&Cs and you then have the choice of accepeting their T&Cs or not. IMHO I think it is a good idea.

 

[otherclive]

Even if the car is perfectly legal towing a caravan heavier than its own kerbweight the insurer can add that sort of clause into their T&Cs and you then have the choice of accepeting their T&Cs or not. IMHO I think it is a good idea.

I did not question the insurers right to define their T&Cs for the policy, and most certainly it is up to the customer to decide whether to buy the policy. But administering such a restriction would be well neigh impossible as the MTPLM could be 100% of kerb weight but the driver hasn't loaded it fully. Then collecting everything up from the road surface and weighing it.....?

 

[Buckman]

I did not question the insurers right to define their T&Cs for the policy, and most certainly it is up to the customer to decide whether to buy the policy. But administering such a restriction would be well neigh impossible as the MTPLM could be 100% of kerb weight but the driver hasn't loaded it fully. Then collecting everything up from the road surface and weighing it.....?

I have no idea how any insurer would go about it however the most sensible way is look at the MTPLM of the caravan whether or not it had anything in it. I guess it is the way their solicitors write the clause to probably cover all angles.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Like others have said I have never come across such a towed weight restriction on a car policy, and I must say I find very unlikely, becasue the the regulations about car insurance make it clear the insurance must cover the car and all its specifications. An d that should include the maximum towed weight regardless of any percentage of kerbweight.

BUT as ever with things like insurance the owner should read and fully understand the the insurance policy and if there is any towed weight restriction that is tighter than the cars own manufacturers specification, if you want the policy to remain valid you must abide by the policies T&C's, Or change to a policy that does not artificially restrict the cars capability.

 

[otherclive]

Like others have said I have never come across such a towed weight restriction on a car policy, and I must say I find very unlikely, becasue the the regulations about car insurance make it clear the insurance must cover the car and all its specifications. An d that should include the maximum towed weight regardless of any percentage of kerbweight.

BUT as ever with things like insurance the owner should read and fully understand the the insurance policy and if there is any towed weight restriction that is tighter than the cars own manufacturers specification, if you want the policy to remain valid you must abide by the policies T&C's, Or change to a policy that does not artificially restrict the cars capability.

Page 21 of Towergate Touring Caravan policy

“We will not pay for loss or damage caused by You towing Your caravan if Your Caravan weighs in excess of 95% of the towing vehicle’s kerb weight.”

Bizarre.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Page 21 of Towergate Touring Caravan policy

“We will not pay for loss or damage caused by You towing Your caravan if Your Caravan weighs in excess of 95% of the towing vehicle’s kerb weight.”

Bizarre.

Well noted, but the policy is a caravan policy not a car policy. And it was my mistake I thought the insurance being discussed was the car policy. My comments related to Car policies not caravan policies,

 

[wildtraks]

Yet the 1.6 e-HDi 115 Airdream Exclusive+ 2014 kerb weight 1373kg won tow car award up to 1400kg

Citroën C4 Picasso | Tow Car Awards

www.thetowcarawards.com

 

[otherclive]

Yet the 1.6 e-HDi 115 Airdream Exclusive+ 2014 kerb weight 1373kg won tow car award up to 1400kg

Citroën C4 Picasso | Tow Car Awards

www.thetowcarawards.com

Some of the Picassos are excellent tow cars, and very flexible in their ability to carry passengers and loads.
It would have been towing at 85% of its kerbweight plus a full fuel tank, even though Citroen rate it at 1600 kg towing specification.

 

[RogerL]

Yet the 1.6 e-HDi 115 Airdream Exclusive+ 2014 kerb weight 1373kg won tow car award up to 1400kg

Citroën C4 Picasso | Tow Car Awards

www.thetowcarawards.com

Tow Car tests are usually done with a caravan ballasted to 85% of kerbweight