compatability

[DavidHitchen]

Hi All
We are newcommers to the caravanning scene and would appreciate some guidance.
We have been contemplating joining the caravanning fraternity for a few months now and have been thinking about which caravan to purchase first. As such we went looking at a few second hand units both privately and from retailers. After much deliberation we decided that we would purchase a new caravan so went back to the retailers to see what deal we could get on various caravans.
After taking advice from the salesman we opted for a Bailey GT65 Ancona. However, before placing the order I had reservations about the capability of my vehicle to pull the van.
The salesman assured me that it would pull the van as they aren't allowed to sell a van otherwise. My vehicle is a 2012 VW Touran 1.6D SE manual 105bhp.
If anyone could help it would be appreciated as it is our first caravan as a family and wouldn't want the wife to be disillushioned at her first hurdle

Yours hopefully

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello David,

When asking questions of this sort, its very important to give us as much information as possible about both the car and the
caravan. The reason is the same model name may be used for several different versions over time. And manufactures do have a habit of changing detail specifications which might affect its ability handle different weights etc.

However based on what I can find out:-

2012 1.6 TDI Touran SE (I assume manual)
Weight 1539 kg
Braked Towing Weight 1500 kg
Torque 250 Nm 185 lb-ft

And the Bailey Pegasus GT65 Ancona has the following specifcation
Berths 6
MTPLM 1496kg 29.4cwt
MRO 1318kg 25.9cwt

Whilst mechanically the car will tow the caravan at its MTPLM, Also the towing ratio (Caravan MTPLM/Cars Unladen weight) is 1496/1539 = 0.97 or 97%. Again this is technically legal, but its all right at the top of the cars limits.

There is also another consideration. Caravans are recognised as being big boxey and that makes them more difficult to tow, so it is always sensible to use the smallest caravan possible behind the tow car. The Caravan industry suggest novice towers should not exceed 85% tow ratio. That suggests a caravan MTPLM not exceeding 1308Kg for your car. And experienced towers should not exceed 100% tow ratio So it just in by the skin of its teeth.

Now onto what the dealer has told you. It is true that dealers have a duty of care to advise customers if a product they select may not be suitable. But they are not restricted by any law from selling a caravan.

What the salesman may be telling you in a less than accurate way is that retailers (for all products) are not obliged to sell to you. They can refuse to sell for any reason the wish provided the reason is not contradictory to any equality legislation.

This means it may be a company policy to refuse to sell where they see a probable outfit mismatch. So its not that they can't sell, it that they choose not too.

There is however yet another consideration Which I cannot resolve simply because I do not have all the technical data. And that is to do with your driving licence entitlements.

If you have cat B (not BE or B+E) then you are limited to a caravan outfit where the combined MAM must not exceed 3500Kg. MAM stands for the Maximum authorised Mass or how heavy the vehicle is allowed to be.

The Touran will have a MAM of about 2200Kg and the caravan MTPLM (MAM)1496Kg that is a combined MAM of 3696Kg or the about, which is well over the limit if 3500Kg

The problem does not arise if you Cat BE or B+E.

THE BOTTOM LINE:
Is the outfit a technical mismatch? well that is debatable, But I would not recommend it to novice tower. And Cat B only licence holder could not tow it legally.

 

[Surfer]

The above post gives all the facts, but a lot depends on your driving licence being B or B+E. Even then I would not recommend a novice towing at 97%. You either need a bigger car or a lighter and smaller caravan and I think the lighter caravan is the way to go.
If you only have a B licence as the maximum gross weight of the car is around 2200kg, the maximum weight you can tow would be 1300kg. Maybe splash out on doiung the B+E test which then opens up a whole new world when it comes to buying a caravan.

 

[Raywood]

The margin between the caravans weight and the cars is far too small for a beginner and even for an experianced caravanner is very doubtful. I would not suggest you tow anything over 1400kg unless you have plenty of towing experience.

 

[Raywood]

The margin between the caravans weight and the cars is far too small for a beginner and even for an experianced caravanner is very doubtful. I would not suggest you tow anything over 1400kg unless you have plenty of towing experience.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The margin between the caravans weight and the cars is far too small for a beginner and even for an experianced caravanner is very doubtful. I would not suggest you tow anything over 1400kg unless you have plenty of towing experience.

Hello Ray,
It is the received wisdom that towing a trailer that weighs more than the tow vehicle is poor practice, and like you I advocate keeping trailer weights as small as possible, but I don't automatically discount towing at 100% or higher where technically permissible and with due prudence.

It is assumed that high towing ratios are likely to have a higher tendency towards instability than low ratio's, and on average that is probably true, But most outfits are not average, and the tendency towards instability is not simply dependent on weight ratio's, there's a lot more to it than that. Two outfits with the same ratio may behave very differently.

Now I don't claim that the following is scientifically sound, but I have driven outfits where despite the ratio being only around 50%, the trailer was distinctly unsteady, and I have driven outfits at close to 150% which have been far happier. It does prove that stability is not a simple derivative of weight ratio. Other factors must play their part.

I must also remake the point that adhering to the 85% or 100% guidance offers no guarantee of a safe or stable tow. I would guess (as there is no accurate data to review) that a significant proportion of caravan outfits that become delinquent on our roads are within the industry 85% guidance, which strongly suggests the guidance is not foolproof, (and the industry do not claim it to be) It is also highly likely that many journeys where the ratio is at or over 100% are completed without incident.

 

[RogerL]

Now I don't claim that the following is scientifically sound, but I have driven outfits where despite the ratio being only around 50%, the trailer was distinctly unsteady, and I have driven outfits at close to 150% which have been far happier. It does prove that stability is not a simple derivative of weight ratio. Other factors must play their part.

But you've been towing long enough to be able to "feel" what's going on behind you, if it's not a particularly stable combination I daresay you'd drive slower - a beginner simply doesn't have that "feel".
There's no science about the 85% or 100%, it comes from years of towing by experienced caravanners, ie the "old fogeys" at the Caravan Club. The Germans think enough of the 100% concept to apply it as a limit under Tempo 100 regulations.
But equally there's no science to show that any other figures would be more suitable.

 

[bertieboy1]

David,
Weights and licence requirements aside,you car at 105BHP will struggle to pull this caravan.The engine will be working at it's top end most of the time and you will get poor fuel consumption.Also it will be very tiring for everyone in the car.(like going on a long journey in a small car)

 

[Raywood]

I accept that 85% is a guide only and that things other than weight can affect stability. I do however firmly believe that people new to towing should err on the cautious side and anything seriously over the 85% figure is unwise for them.