Contract/towbar query

[jaffasdad]

I hope I'm putting this in the correct section, but please feel free to move it.

In March I oredered a new Skoda Yeti with a factory fitted towbar costing £420. Yesterday I went to sort out the finance and found that the towbar had not been fitted. At first the salesman was rather evasive but then said that it had 'not been possible' to fit it at the factory and that a fitter was coming on Monday morning to do it along with another couple of cars. He assured me that it would be done to the same standard and with the same warranty as a factory-fitted one.

I know from various sources that people have had problems with retro-fitted bars, especially when ECU's have not been remapped. Indeed, I have had some problems myself - hence the choice of factory-fitting.

What unsettles me is that I have ordered something that I am not getting and, despite the saleman's assurances I feel a bit uneasy about it. Where do I stand legally? What should I check when I pick the car up? (I have not yet paid the full balance as I will be doing that with a debit card when I pick the car up.)

I'm not a natural complainer but would be interested to hear any thoughts or suggestions hopefully before Monday!

 

[Tukums]

When I ordered my Octavia Estate 4x4 in June 2011(then had to wait 7 months for delivery!), I did not order the factory towbar because it would have come wired to a 13 pin socket for trailer road lighting only, this was explained in the sales brochure and I would have had to get a fitter to wire up for fridge / battery.
I ordered dealer fit with Skoda electrics and it was all done by a professional towbar fitting company contracted out. However I did order towbar preparation, at time of build the lighting wiring loom was put in with a connection at the rear of the car, this also sorted out fuses, canbus and ECU. All the fitter had to do was put the bar on, plug in for road lights and put extra cable in for fridge, battery charging, relays for them and reversing light. He did a good job and the work does not effect warranty etc, etc, I did have an option of flange, swan neck or removable, opted for flange; if you do get chance, talk to the towbar company and explain what you want (I did), and ask about ECU programme, dealers do not know or understand about caravan wiring.
I am very pleased with mine and have no doubt that it is to factory standard.

 

[ProfJohnL]

At first sight it appears your legal position is that the seller has not supplied goods according to contract, therefore they seem to be in breach of contract - But things are rarely as simple as they may seem.

I do not know what specific information you were given at the time of ordering your car. Was a "Factory Fitted" towbar a selectable option? or was it worded differently. The reason I ask this is because most car manufacturers produce only a standard car on their production line, and customer options such as towbars and phone kits etc are usually left to the supplying dealer to fit before the car is handed over.

As far as I am aware, its is common practice for car dealers to arrange to fit towbars, and they may well use a subcontractor to carry out the work.

As far as you are concerned, the dealer is the main contractor as you have specified the Towbar on your order (Contract details) How the dealer actually arranges it should be of no concern, provided the fitting is carried out correctly and the necessary reprogramming of any systems has be carried out.

I suggest you ask your dealer to confirm in writing that the towbar will be fitted with all the necessary reprogramming carried out to the car manufacturers specifications and that the dealer indemnifies you against any subsequent problems if the towbar or its electric fail at any time in the future.

Frankly I would be surprised if you have any problems with a dealer fitted towbar.

 

[RayS]

I agree with Prof's comments. However, also check with your car insurers. You need to tell them you have a tow bar fitted. Previous threads on this topic have indicated that while most insurers are reasonable and do not require additional premiums for a 'modification' others may not be so understanding.
I have been led to believe that if the towbar is on the original invoice there should be no problem. If however, it is on a separtate invoice and fitted after you have technically owned the car then it may be regarded as a modification.

Suggest you talk to your insurer and if the 'modification' clause comes up then insist that your dealer puts it on the original invoice - after all this is what your ordered.

 

[johnandrew70]

I work for a Skoda dealer and them telling you that it was not possible to have a towbar factory fitted is total crap, we have had plenty of Yeti's come direct from the factory with towbars fitted, they also have the removable panel in the bumper and the area in the boot for the swan neck removable ball.
I think what has happened is that the salesman forgot to order the towbar when putting in the original car order also were you kept up to date as to when the car entered the country etc if not the chances are that the dealer found a car that was already built and in the country with your spec minus the towbar.

John

 

[jaffasdad]

Thanks for those reassuring comments.
The towbar is clearly described as 'factory fitted optional equipment' in the brochure, which is what we used in the ordering process though it doesn't actually say that on the order form.
I suppose I felt a bit annoyed that I found out about this more or less by accident, the salesman was rather evasive and that and I'm not getting exactly what I ordered.
I have informed my insurance company about the towbar - they were fine about it.

 

[johnandrew70]

Thanks for those reassuring comments.
The towbar is clearly described as 'factory fitted optional equipment' in the brochure, which is what we used in the ordering process though it doesn't actually say that on the order form.
I suppose I felt a bit annoyed that I found out about this more or less by accident, the salesman was rather evasive and that and I'm not getting exactly what I ordered.
I have informed my insurance company about the towbar - they were fine about it.

The best thing to do is when you get the customer satisfaction survay to fill out be honest if they dont get the full 100% they dont get there bonuses and that will hurt there pockets more than you think.
You should be happy as larry with your Yeti, They are great cars, its just a shame you have been let down to a certain extent by your dealer.
John

 

[MichaelE]

A good fitter will fit to the same standards as the factory, as long as the towbar is identical and state this ie a westfalia removable and lockable (this what the factory fit) it shouldnt be a problem.
We purchased a ML in 2002 which was ordered with a detachable factory towbar , when we went to pick up the car they had fitted a fixed towbar and cut the bumper out and it looked awful, we refused the car and they had refit a factory standard towbar for free new bumper and refunded back the original cost before we would accept it.
You could be quite strong here as the car is not what you ordered if the towbar is not right.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Johnandrew's comments I think are quite helpful and probaly right. Micheals contribution is also correct. You are entitled to what you ordered, and if it differs then you should not accept what you are offered, However as I stated before, I seriously doubt you will have any problems if the dealer fits the correct towbar. Your warranty guarantee should not be affected.

 

[RogerL]

In many cases, the dealer's workshop won't fit the towbar - they'll use a mobile towbar contractor just like any of us might use at home - the quality of their work is variable !!
Genuine factory-fit towbars are often much more expensive than afterfit - make sure the dealer removes all the factory-fit charges from your invoice and only adds aftermarket costs.
In the circumstances you could refuse the towbar altogether, with reduction in price, and organise your own contractor - that's what I'd be doing

 

[johnandrew70]

Whatever you decide to do its down to you. You could say you want them to remove the £420 from the order and only charge you for the aftermarket bar but in my experience you would be better off paying the £420 as its probably cheaper than the aftermarket cost.
I paid over £500 for a fitter to fit a towbar to a mercedes i had a few years ago and then last year paid £600 for the same fitter to fit a Thule removable system to my Passat that included the rear bumper apron, removable panel and of course the electrics.
Maybe you could try to get out of paying for it full stop. tell them as you are not getting what you ordered you are not accepting the car unless they take the £420 off.
The reason why dealers so often get a fitter in to do the job is because (A) the fitter can do the job quicker (B) The fitter knows what they are doing and (C) if anything goes wrong the dealer can wipe there hands of it and say you need to speak to so & so Towbars heres there number.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

The reason why dealers so often get a fitter in to do the job is because (A) the fitter can do the job quicker (B) The fitter knows what they are doing and (C) if anything goes wrong the dealer can wipe there hands of it and say you need to speak to so & so Towbars heres there number.

The Sale of Goods Acts is very very clear. The responsibility to supply goods to contract lies with the retailer. If the customers orders a towbar through the dealer, the dealer IS resposnsible for its propper installation and reliability, regardless of who carries out the installation, whether its the factory, the dealer or an independnat fitter.
A retailer cannot 'wash their hands' of their legal SoGA responsibilty.
I have recently changed my car to a 2006 Passat 2.0TD (170) DSG. The supplying dealer arranged to have the cambelt and tensioner changed by a garage, as per VW's shedule before I took delivery. Having owned the vehicle for only 2500 miles (Two months) the cambelt tensioner failed.
I reported the failure to MY supplier to whom I paid my money. Under SoGA it is up to my supplier to arrange to remedy the failure. I have no contract with garage that fitted the parts, the wholesaler or manufacturer.
Although I am certain that all parties have acted in good faith, that is the risk they take when working in retail. But all is not lost, providing my supplier has a professional relationship with the garage that fitted the parts, then just as my contract places the responsibility on my supplier, his supplier is obliged by their contract, and so on back down the supply chain, until the point where the cause of the failure rests.

 

[jaffasdad]

Many thanks for your comments.
I don't think this issue is important enough for me to consider rejecting the car, although it will be interesting to see whether or not the detachable tow ball has a covering plate on the bumper - which I believe the factory-fitted ones have. In any case I am passing on my old car to my son tomorrow and he has already sold his in anticipation of this. I would not have a car if I rejected it, even if I had the grounds or the inclination to do so.
I think an analogy would be if the car was not the same colour as you had ordered; it really depends on how different it is and whether you are prepared to live with it!
I'll let you all know what transpires.
Thanks again.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think you have taken a reasonable and pragmatic approach. But you should insist on having the cover plate, as that was one of your expectations of the factory fitting. I think you should find the dealer will feel obliged to help in this respect.

 

[johnandrew70]

The reason why dealers so often get a fitter in to do the job is because (A) the fitter can do the job quicker (B) The fitter knows what they are doing and (C) if anything goes wrong the dealer can wipe there hands of it and say you need to speak to so & so Towbars heres there number.

The Sale of Goods Acts is very very clear. The responsibility to supply goods to contract lies with the retailer. If the customers orders a towbar through the dealer, the dealer IS resposnsible for its propper installation and reliability, regardless of who carries out the installation, whether its the factory, the dealer or an independnat fitter.
A retailer cannot 'wash their hands' of their legal SoGA responsibilty.
I have recently changed my car to a 2006 Passat 2.0TD (170) DSG. The supplying dealer arranged to have the cambelt and tensioner changed by a garage, as per VW's shedule before I took delivery. Having owned the vehicle for only 2500 miles (Two months) the cambelt tensioner failed.
I reported the failure to MY supplier to whom I paid my money. Under SoGA it is up to my supplier to arrange to remedy the failure. I have no contract with garage that fitted the parts, the wholesaler or manufacturer.
Although I am certain that all parties have acted in good faith, that is the risk they take when working in retail. But all is not lost, providing my supplier has a professional relationship with the garage that fitted the parts, then just as my contract places the responsibility on my supplier, his supplier is obliged by their contract, and so on back down the supply chain, until the point where the cause of the failure rests.

Hi John
How do you find the Passat? I love mine I have the 140Bhp manual but have a feeling its been remapped or something by the previous owner as it seems to have so much power and torque, i find when its slightly damp on the ground it has trouble putting the power to the road if i am a bit throttle happy in 1st and 2nd.
What do you tow with the passat if you dont mind me asking.
John

 

[Dustydog]

Hi John

As an aside are you sure your garage have understood exactly what is required. My brother was told byAudi Vw hisA4 needed a new belt , tension pulley, tensioner, Idler pulley, waterpump and thermostat.Yes all this for a cambelt change. The pulleys are or were plastic.Hope this helps and may explain the premature failure

idle

 

[RogerL]

My brother was told byAudi Vw hisA4 needed a new belt , tension pulley, tensioner, Idler pulley, waterpump and thermostat.Yes all this for a cambelt change. The pulleys are or were plastic.Hope this helps and may explain the premature failure

That's normal across all cars, not just VAG, where the cambelt drives the waterpump - it's false economy just to replace the belt because if/when the waterpump fails it shreds the belt andv wrecks the engine!

 

[MichaelE]

I would agree ref the cambelt change, the difference is buying a kit with new pulleys and tensioners or just the belt, i always have the waterpump changed as for the sake of a few extra quid and most garages recommended it anyway, if the pump failed they wouldnt refit the belt so even more expence.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Roger and Michael.

I hope our Prof hasn't been cheated!

It would seem his premature belt failure may have been caused by the garages incorrect advice and not the job properly.

 

[jongeorge1]

I also work for a skoda dealer ship and have supplied many yeti tow bars and the plate to cover the tow bar once it has been removed so looks factory fitted.
the only problem with factory fitted towbar s is that they do not always charge the battery and run the fridge but to the wiring config.
also most of the vw/Audi engines the water pump is run from the cam belt and to reduce the cost you would replace the water pump a the same time as the cam belt

 

[johnandrew70]

Always replace the waterpump when doing a cambelt, the waterpump is about £30 so for the sake of £30 you could be saving yourself a fortune. when i bought my passat the salesman agreed to replace the cambelt, while the car was in the workshop having the belt done i asked the technician if they were paying for the waterpump and they said no just the belt so i went right into the parts department and got a pump there and then. it was something like £26+vat and they send the old pump back.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Johnandrew,

Most front wheel drive cars have trouble maintaining front wheel grip under heavy throttle in low gears. And obviously the more powerful the car the greater easier it is to loose traction. My Passat has an ESP programme which detects loss of traction and reduces the throttle. Even with ESP I can feel some loss of traction.

However I got the car on the day the snow fell in March this year, and it is my opinion that its traction in poor conditions is not as good as my outgoing Saab 9-3, but that could be down to the tyres, which I have since changed.

I have no doubt the 170 has more than enough power and torque to tow, but I don't as yet have a tow bar fitted. I do most of my personal towing using a Renault Espace.

Dusty,
In this case I have no idea what information was available regards the cam belt change. It was not at my request but the supplying dealer who wanted the work carried out, and I had no objection as it was almost due according to the service book. However when I received the car the service book indicated that both the cam belt and the tensioner had been changed.

 

[johnandrew70]

Hello Johnandrew,

Most front wheel drive cars have trouble maintaining front wheel grip under heavy throttle in low gears. And obviously the more powerful the car the greater easier it is to loose traction. My Passat has an ESP programme which detects loss of traction and reduces the throttle. Even with ESP I can feel some loss of traction.

However I got the car on the day the snow fell in March this year, and it is my opinion that its traction in poor conditions is not as good as my outgoing Saab 9-3, but that could be down to the tyres, which I have since changed.

I have no doubt the 170 has more than enough power and torque to tow, but I don't as yet have a tow bar fitted. I do most of my personal towing using a Renault Espace.

Dusty,
In this case I have no idea what information was available regards the cam belt change. It was not at my request but the supplying dealer who wanted the work carried out, and I had no objection as it was almost due according to the service book. However when I received the car the service book indicated that both the cam belt and the tensioner had been changed.

Hi Prof
Mine also has ESP but the front still loses traction, i have Michelins on the front of mine.
You are right it has bags of power plenty to tow with and its very stable too.
John

 

[jaffasdad]

If I could just steer this back to the original post..........here's an update!

We should've collected the new Yeti yesterday but the computer system that allows dealers to tax the car online was down so we went today. (Tuesday.)

I wasn't surprised to find that the towbar was NOT as per a factory fit. A rectangular panel had been cut out of the bumper and a detatchable tow bar had been fitted, but not a Wesphalia. When the towbar is removed there is a hole in the bumper with no cover for it. We had a frank exchange of views and the outcome is that they have ordered a new bumper and will be refitting the whole thing, including a Westphalia tow bar, ASAP.

When I got home I connected up to the van and was again not surprised to find that the car had not been remapped. Although the ecectrics on the van all worked OK, the rear parking sensors are not deactivated and the car alarm does not sound if the van is unplugged. (There are probably other things that should happen, but I haven't found those yet.)

The salesman also admitted that he had not ordered the factory fit towbar, hence the retro-fit.

I'm hoping it will all be sorted out next week, but I'm not holding my breath. It's a shame because the car itself is fabulous.

 

[MichaelE]

Its a real shame that this has dampened the whole experience of buying the Yeti.I would expect some sort of refund for inconvience disapointment after its all sorted ie money or a free service.
A chat with the dealerships manager wouldnt go amiss to say how disapointed you are.
Enjoy the car though i bet you cant wait to tow