Regarding towing

[Buckman]

This is on another forum. If you have the CAMC cover beware; “We have now heard back from the head of our Insurance team regarding your query. They have confirmed that we are unable to cover a caravan where caravan's weight is over 100% of the towing vehicles kerb weight. In the event of a claim the weights would be based on the plated weight of the caravan.”

Seems even if the caravan is empty but the plated MTPLM is higher than the car's kerbweight, no payment? On checking my V5 this morning there is n mention of the kerbweight on the V5 so how will the CAMC be able to enforce such a rule?

 

[otherclive]

This is on another forum. If you have the CAMC cover beware; “We have now heard back from the head of our Insurance team regarding your query. They have confirmed that we are unable to cover a caravan where caravan's weight is over 100% of the towing vehicles kerb weight. In the event of a claim the weights would be based on the plated weight of the caravan.”

Seems even if the caravan is empty but the plated MTPLM is higher than the car's kerbweight, no payment? On checking my V5 this morning there is n mention of the kerbweight on the V5 so how will the CAMC be able to enforce such a rule?

What do they mean by “caravans weight” very vague and says nothing about MTPLM. So if MTPLM is above kerbweight what would happen if the driver towed it unladen and below kerbweight.
I’d expect an insurance clause to be more specific.

 

[ProfJohnL]

That is such a loosely defined clause as to be unreasonable and thus challengeable as an unfair contract term.

 

[otherclive]

Members on here have CMHC cover and surely it should be detailed within their policy T&C. Yet when something like this arose a while back no one reported such a restriction in their insurance cover, for CMHC or any other insurers.

 

[Buckman]

What do they mean by “caravans weight” very vague and says nothing about MTPLM. So if MTPLM is above kerbweight what would happen if the driver towed it unladen and below kerbweight.
I’d expect an insurance clause to be more specific.

I think the important word is "plated" which I think is quite clear. Therefore towing an empty caravan with a plated weight higher than the towing limit of the vehicle would make the insurance invalid for the caravan. The towing vehicle's insurance would obviously cover third party claims.

 

[otherclive]

I think the important word is "plated" which I think is quite clear. Therefore towing an empty caravan with a plated weight higher than the towing limit of the vehicle would make the insurance invalid for the caravan. The towing vehicle's insurance would obviously cover third party claims.

I still would like to see if anyone with CMHC cover has such a restriction in the T&C for their policy.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The problem with enforcing the clause as it was presented in #1 is establishing the tow vehicles kerbweight.

Different paper figures for kerbweight can be found for the same vehicle, and as we know from many previous threads, a vehicles actual kerbweight can be very different to any published figure.

The uncertainty about what a vehicles kerbweight is renders this clause unfair because the user and insurer may not be able to resolve with a reasonable degree of accuracy what figure should be used.

I think the important word is "plated" which I think is quite clear. Therefore towing an empty caravan with a plated weight higher than the towing limit of the vehicle would make the insurance invalid for the caravan. The towing vehicle's insurance would obviously cover third party claims.

You have changed a criteria, is it kerbweight or towing limit, as these are very different criteria.

 

[Buckman]

The problem with enforcing the clause as it was presented in #1 is establishing the tow vehicles kerbweight.

Different paper figures for kerbweight can be found for the same vehicle, and as we know from many previous threads, a vehicles actual kerbweight can be very different to any published figure.

The uncertainty about what a vehicles kerbweight is renders this clause unfair because the user and insurer may not be able to resolve with a reasonable degree of accuracy what figure should be used.


You have changed a criteria, is it kerbweight or towing limit, as these are very different criteria.

I have not changed any criteria. If your car is plated to tow a caravan at for instance 1600kg, but you tow an empty caravan with a MTPLM of 1800kg the insurance would be invalid even though at the time of towing the caravan only weighed 1400kg as the CAMC is using the plate weights like most insurance companies. Not difficult to understand.

However strangely enough if your unit, car and caravan, complies with the plated weights, but the caravan is over loaded and exceeds the MTPLM the insurance would still be valid?

 

[Hutch]

I have just checked on my insurance and here is the clause. This is with the CAMC.

What is Not Insured

1. Loss or damage that as a result of an 'event' known to happen before taking out the cover, for example but not limited to a storm.

2. Loss or damage as the result of the towing vehicle not being capable of towing the Member's Caravan safely in accordance with the manufacturer's or others guidelines and/or the combination of the towing vehicle and Caravan not meeting the appropriate legal requirements. This can also include the Member's Caravan's weight being in excess of 100% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight.

 

[Buckman]

I have just checked on my insurance and here is the clause. This is with the CAMC.

What is Not Insured

1. Loss or damage that as a result of an 'event' known to happen before taking out the cover, for example but not limited to a storm.

2. Loss or damage as the result of the towing vehicle not being capable of towing the Member's Caravan safely in accordance with the manufacturer's or others guidelines and/or the combination of the towing vehicle and Caravan not meeting the appropriate legal requirements. This can also include the Member's Caravan's weight being in excess of 100% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight.

It is impossible for a vehicle to tow any caravan at its kerb weight as kerb weight excludes the driver and liquids i.e. fuel. The CAMC refer to "plated" weights, but as far as I am aware no vehicle displays the kerb weight of the vehicle on its plate? In the literature with most vehicles it may give the kerbweight as 1400-1600kg as the manufacturer could offer factory options i.e. towbar etc. MIRO I am told is different as that includes driver and fuel.

 

[Hutch]

It is impossible for a vehicle to tow any caravan at its kerb weight as kerb weight excludes the driver and liquids i.e. fuel. The CAMC refer to "plated" weights, but as far as I am aware no vehicle displays the kerb weight of the vehicle on its plate? In the literature with most vehicles it may give the kerbweight as 1400-1600kg as the manufacturer could offer factory options i.e. towbar etc. MIRO I am told is different as that includes driver and fuel.

The CAMC insurance clause, does not state anything to do with plates weights.
It states.
This can also include the Member's Caravan's weight being in excess of 100% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight.

 

[otherclive]

The CAMC insurance clause, does not state anything to do with plates weights.
It states.
This can also include the Member's Caravan's weight being in excess of 100% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight.

So was the post in #1 purporting to come from the CMHC by email a hoax// fake? Companies don’t normally advise T&C via email😱

 

[Buckman]

The CAMC insurance clause, does not state anything to do with plates weights.
It states.
This can also include the Member's Caravan's weight being in excess of 100% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight.

You are correct, but how can any vehicle tow a caravan if at it is at its kerb weight? regarding the "plated" weight, that is what was in the reply to a member querying the kerb weight clause etc so a direct answer from the club and not my words.

 

[GaryB]

I also have CMHC insurance for the caravan and concur with Hutch, I have the same clause.

 

[Buckman]

I also have CMHC insurance for the caravan and concur with Hutch, I have the same clause.

No one is disputing the clause, but it was the answer from the CAMC regarding the clause when they refer to "plated" weights.

 

[RogerL]

I also have CMHC insurance for the caravan and concur with Hutch, I have the same clause.

Just checked mine, it also has the same clause - I've emailed the club to ask what the kerb weight is for my car as that's not published by VW or any other authority - I've also asked why I can't tow a caravan at 3,500 kg which is my car's towing limit.

 

[otherclive]

No one is disputing the clause, but it was the answer from the CAMC regarding the clause when they refer to "plated" weights.

There’s always the case where the person in the Club doesn’t know the conditions and has made an error.

My Sorento was specified to tow 3500 kg which was well above its kerbweight.

 

[Buckman]

There’s always the case where the person in the Club doesn’t know the conditions and has made an error.

My Sorento was specified to tow 3500 kg which was well above its kerbweight.

Same with the Jeep at 3200kg.

 

[Hutch]

The insurance company can put in whatever clause they want, it is Upto yourself if you wish to take on insurance with that company.

 

[Buckman]

The insurance company can put in whatever clause they want, it is Upto yourself if you wish to take on insurance with that company.

However Caravan Cover is not insurance in the true sense, but they can still put in whatever they like in their T&Cs even if it is incorrect.

 

[otherclive]

However Caravan Cover is not insurance in the true sense, but they can still put in whatever they like in their T&Cs even if it is incorrect.

It’s a long while since that old chestnut dropped to the ground. For completeness it should also be stated that it gives the same cover and protections as a conventional policy. Plus members who have had to claim comment on how efficient the service is. So a Newbie should have no concerns in using CMHC to cover their caravan.

 

[Raywood]

If the clause is there I doubt it would be regarded as fair except in very serious breaches. On the other hand it would be a major nuisance to challenge it, even if you won so if you are going to have an MTPLM that high either changer the car or make sure your insurer does not have that condition in the policy. To be safe I would go with the first.
This is found in many other car and caravan policies so you should be aware of this.
I have not seen the policy definition as you cannot see the cover until you have got a quote, but it would seem totally unfair if applied to an empty caravan, particularly if this was not the specific wording.
There has been a lot of discussion on here about kerb weight and what it is. In general you will normally find you are quoted the unladen weight which is possibly different. There is a legal definition of kerb weight in one act, but it is for the specific act and a court might use a different one used elsewhere as they do exist and might be more appropriate to the case, so there is room for doubt. I would go with the unladen weight as defined by your car maker which should be a bit lighter. The weight should be shown on the V5 and in the handbook. You need to err on the side of caution and make sure you have a decent weight ratio.

 

[Buckman]

It’s a long while since that old chestnut dropped to the ground. For completeness it should also be stated that it gives the same cover and protections as a conventional policy. Plus members who have had to claim comment on how efficient the service is. So a Newbie should have no concerns in using CMHC to cover their caravan.

I never slagged it off or said that there were issues claiming? There are also other insurance companies that mention kerbweight in their T&Cs i.e. Towergate which mentions 95% of kerb weight.

 

[Lutz]

It would be interesting to hear from the insurance companies where they get their kerbweight figures from as kerbweight isn't documented anywhere. The V5 only quotes Mass in Service and that could be miles off the actual kerbweight. Kerbweight is specific to each and every vehicle and includes all factory fitted options and subsequently fitted permanent features such as possibly the towbar, for example. Mass in Service doesn't include any of that, so it's quite likely that kerbweight is greater.

 

[Buckman]

It would be interesting to hear from the insurance companies where they get their kerbweight figures from as kerbweight isn't documented anywhere. The V5 only quotes Mass in Service and that could be miles off the actual kerbweight. Kerbweight is specific to each and every vehicle and includes all factory fitted options and subsequently fitted permanent features such as possibly the towbar, for example. Mass in Service doesn't include any of that, so it's quite likely that kerbweight is greater.

Exactly so whoever wrote that reply has no technical knowledge or even a clue what they are talking about and we are supposed to rely on the CC for the correct advice.